Why is Del Toro expected to improve even more than Remco? Is he scheduled for an upgrade at UAE?
- Jul 31, 2024
- 775
- 862
- 4,180
His age. But in todays world its no longer a given young riders will still improve significantly. Ayuso been stagnating for years for example
If there are two options, provided no Pogacar or Jonas at the Giro, wouldn't you rather go 100% and give yourself the best possible chance to win it, and even if you lose, know that you did everything you could, your best. Or go there undercooked and in the case of a loss, more realistic now, always wonder what could have been had you come at 100%? It's not like being sub optimally prepared for the Giro will increase his Tour odds anyway
- Sep 12, 2022
- 8,315
- 9,790
- 17,180
Neither RBH nor Evenepoel believe that. They think he can improve enough to be competitive
- Jul 7, 2013
- 8,190
- 15,056
- 23,180
A lot depends on relative level vs the competition. Giro + Tour double have been a failure most of the time and Remco is not a stage-racing monster, he even has troubles with keeping low weight for a longer time.
Yes, if Remco starts undercooked then he has a chance to peak for the Tour but it's difficult and rarely happens. Pogacar did it because he was 3 leagues above his Giro competition while not being at his best (compared to the Tour). With such a huge margin he had the race totally under control and did intense efforts only when he wanted (not when he was forced to). Remco won't have that luxury in the Giro plus obviously his competition in the Tour will be monstrous. Giro win + Tour podium would be a huge success but still very very difficult to get. I may turn out that treating Giro as a training (without winning OFC, being overweight + stage hunting) is the only way for him to produce a big performance at the Tour.
Last edited:
How exactly is racing the Giro better than not racing it and fully preparing for the Tour?
- Sep 12, 2022
- 8,315
- 9,790
- 17,180
We are going in circles, they think he can do both while still being 100% at the TDF, just not at the Giro. And have a chance of winning both, even when it’s a slim chance.
All of it doesn’t matter that much, because I doubt he’ll do the giro. He said people would be surprised by some classic races that they would do. That doesn’t work with riding the giro
Well, I don't believe that he can win the Giro and be 100% for the Tour but like you said, the Giro probably won't be in his schedule anyway
- Sep 12, 2022
- 8,315
- 9,790
- 17,180
All of this is based on historic training regimen. I expect the the biggest changes for his training after joining RBH. Which would result in a much better and balanced Evenepoel.
- Jul 7, 2013
- 8,190
- 15,056
- 23,180
If they transform him into a more classical GT rider, who keeps a low weight for longer, then maybe. I would still think fully exploiting his classics capabilities plus peaking for the Tour should be the way to go in his career, not doing 2 GTs per season.
Doing the Giro-Tour is detrimental to the Tour. Once again, Pogacar is being used for Remco, even though Pogacar is far superior rider in for a GT.
Except for Roche and Pantani, everyone else who has won the Giro-Tour double has also won more than one Tour, are GT Dominants Remco isn't.
Pantani was a dominant climber in his time; Remco hasn't even won a mountain stage against the rider who finished second in the Tour.
I remember it was also said that for Roglic, it would be training for the Tour. It took 26 years to win the Giro-Tour again, but now it's easy, and the Giro is just training
Except for Roche and Pantani, everyone else who has won the Giro-Tour double has also won more than one Tour, are GT Dominants Remco isn't.
Pantani was a dominant climber in his time; Remco hasn't even won a mountain stage against the rider who finished second in the Tour.
I remember it was also said that for Roglic, it would be training for the Tour. It took 26 years to win the Giro-Tour again, but now it's easy, and the Giro is just training
- Sep 12, 2022
- 8,315
- 9,790
- 17,180
Did everything go perfectly for Roglic?
Also no one said Evenepoel is going to win the double…
- May 5, 2010
- 51,769
- 30,310
- 28,180
Also, if you go by "A rider who has finished second in the Tour":
Vuelta 2023 stage 14.
(And if it's specifically "The rider who finished second in the Tour that same year" your example doesn't work.)
Because he was a direct rival of Vineggaard in that Vuelta.
Remco has never been better than the current second rider in the Tour (everything needs to be specified).
The best thing for someone who has never won the Tour, and who is currently not even the second favorite, is to do Giro-Tour to win the Tour 🙄
It's actually better to specify if you don't want to be misunderstood, yes. But still, my bad.
I think maybe he mentions Remco more now because he thinks a new team can unlock significant improvements in stage racing whereas he feels fully confident that he has Jonas under control and that he won’t improve much more.
He certainly can win the Giro but it’s a fantasy to think that he can win at below 100% against Almeida/Del Toro let alone if Jonas shows up as expected.
- Sep 12, 2022
- 8,315
- 9,790
- 17,180
Del Toro is overrated, he lost to Yates and Carapaz… it was an exciting race, and it was close, but those 3 wouldn’t ride top 5 in TDF. Some not even top 10
They are for sure better than an 80 percent DNF Remco
Del Toro won L’Avenir while riding for a club team. He has only been in a pro environment for 2 years so I feel very confident that he still has a sizeable margin for improvement. I think he lost the Giro on inexperience and poor advice from the team car rather than on legs. Endurance beyond 200km is currently his biggest obstacle to big wins.
- Sep 12, 2022
- 8,315
- 9,790
- 17,180
I agree with all of that, but I still think his GT level isn’t that impressive
Pogi is being magnanimous and responding to a journalist filling a slow new cycle. Remco’s transfer is the only real news right now. Pogi is not scared of Remco.
Yeah
When has Remco ever performed in a GT when he comes in below 100%? He strikes me as someone who needs everything to come together to be competitive, the antithesis of the GT natural Contador who could come from the beach. Setting the freakish Pogi aside, Vingegaard seems more like a Contador type. Remco is more of a Wiggins who can get there, but it’s not easy and you can’t count on it. And I have never seen him prove he is significantly better than Roglic, Lipowitz, and Almeida head-to-head on equal footing (all team leaders, all prepared, all crash and injury free). He did close to his best numbers on La Port and was dusted at the end by Roglic the mailman, who was coming off winter shoulder surgery. He said he was in good shape this year but got crushed by Lipowitz. I think he can be better than the rest, but it is far from a certainty that he will be better on a given day.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread- Started by DNP-Old
- Replies: 36K
-
Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread- Started by Lequack
- Replies: 41K
-
Teams & Riders The Great Big Cycling Transfers, Extensions, and Rumours Thread
- Started by RedheadDane
- Replies: 13K
-
-
Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives- Started by johnymax
- Replies: 23K
-
Teams & Riders Jonas Vingegaard thread: Love in Iberia- Started by Samu Cuenca
- Replies: 10K
-
Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.- Started by Miburo
- Replies: 22K
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram