Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[AmRacer]

When has Remco ever ridden for a big budget team with the best of the best in their staff? My assumptions are based on him improving, a lot, at RBH.

Something to discuss in another part of the forum, perhaps?

 

[vappaxbipmv]

When has Remco ever ridden for a big budget team with the best of the best in their staff? My assumptions are based on him improving, a lot, at RBH.

I think SQS are being underrated here, it wasn't some semi amateur team. I don't expect some massive improvement by him, even being consistent over 3 weeks or winning a few 1 week races is a big improvement, I think they can do that

 

[Berniece]

I think SQS are being underrated here, it wasn't some semi amateur team. I don't expect some massive improvement by him, even being consistent over 3 weeks or winning a few 1 week races is a big improvement, I think they can do that

Based on how they mismanaged him a couple of times, I beg to differ

 

[red_flanders]

Yeah, have to agree with @Berniece , seems like there’s room for improvement over SQS. Even a small change for the better would be significant.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

Based on how they mismanaged him a couple of times, I beg to differ

I mean, is there any team that isn't a victim to mismanagement? I don't think so

Can he improve? Yes. Can he get much better? I don't think so

 

[KoopaCycling]

Remco despite the Lombardy crash which took him the whole of 2021 to get back from has steadily getting better every year even till 2024. Some minor setbacks, here and there but the 24 version of Remco was better than the 22 version of Remco that won the Vuelta. Whilst Remco won't be taking huge leaps anymore i think too many people look at last year and get the wrong impression. When in fact his fall of 2025 seemed to show he was getting back on track.

Even now Remco is a top 5 rider. Even if he stagnates which i'll doubt will happen fullstop. ( I do think he will improve if not cause of Red Bull then simply from being healthy and hitting his psychical prime) He'll at least make small increments. But even if he stagnates and remains the rider he is today, can you truly say that won't be enough to compete for the win. I think even his current self is good enough to compete.

Is his current self better than Vingegaard, Pogacar at GT, better than VdP,, Pogacar at 1 day races in general? No. But he's already good enough to compete with them. Cycling isn't a mathematical equation. Sometimes just being out there and being able to compete with the very best is enough. Ask Yates, Kuss, Hindley, Asgreen, Bettiol, Tersptra, Phillipsen, Mohoric, Stuyven, Van Baarle, ... . I'd argue that Remco is a better cyclist than all of them and is constantly putting himself in a position to compete for the marbles.

Too many people be knocking Remco just cause he is a contender and not the outright best in what he does outside of TT.

 

[Cycling111]

I think SQS are being underrated here, it wasn't some semi amateur team. I don't expect some massive improvement by him, even being consistent over 3 weeks or winning a few 1 week races is a big improvement, I think they can do that

When has Remco ever ridden for a big budget team with the best of the best in their staff? My assumptions are based on him improving, a lot, at RBH.

Mikel Landa's 2024 Tour de France was far superior to his Tour 2023 in Bahrain.
Jan Hirt also had his best season in years in 2024.
Let's also remember that Almeida performed impressively in the Giro d'Italia as a rookie and Remco had problems. And when Remco debuted in 2019, Alaphilippe was winning a time trial in the Tour de France.

I wish Pogacar had had a teammate in 2020 who finished fifth in the Tour 🙄

Pogacar won a Tour de France alone in a terrible team. Remco, the year his teammate finished fifth, finished third. There's constant debate about Remco's supposed improvement as if his base level in GT were the same as Pogacar's, who has been on the podium in all his GT races.

Remco suffered on Almeida's wheel in his first Giro and was third in his first Tour with a teammate being fith.
Pogacar won the Tour on a disastrous team in his first Tour. This is the difference.

But thiss is what happens when they ignore things to tell biased stories.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Mikel Landa's 2024 Tour de France was far superior to his Tour 2023 in Bahrain.
Jan Hirt also had his best season in years.
Let's also remember that Almeida performed impressively in the Giro d'Italia as a rookie and Remco had problems.

I wish Pogacar had had a teammate in 2020 who finished fifth in the Tour 😭

Pogacar won a Tour de France alone in a terrible team. Remco, the year his teammate finished fifth, finished third. There's constant debate about Remco's supposed improvement as if his base level in GT were the same as Pogacar's, who has been on the podium in all his GT races.

Pogacar won the Tour on a disastrous team, and Remco suffered on Almeida's wheel in a Giro.

This is what happens when they ignore things to tell biased stories.

I would agree that Pogacar has the leg up, but it's hard to overlook all the bias of your post. Making it ironic that you would argue bias in favour of Remco. I mean you're talking about Giro 21 after his near death Lombardy crash. I would also argue that in the leadup to Almeida impressive giro debut in 2020, Remco was looking incredible in the fall of 2020 until his crash. And was set to make a very good Giro debut. You're talking about Landa as if he's some average joe who suddenly got an outlier tour under soudal. and so on.

 

[Red Rick]

Del Toro is overrated, he lost to Yates and Carapaz… it was an exciting race, and it was close, but those 3 wouldn’t ride top 5 in TDF. Some not even top 10

In the words of one of the great TV villains of all time:

"At last, a thing we agree upon"

 

[vappaxbipmv]

Remco despite the Lombardy crash which took him the whole of 2021 to get back from has steadily getting better every year even till 2024. Some minor setbacks, here and there but the 24 version of Remco was better than the 22 version of Remco that won the Vuelta. Whilst Remco won't be taking huge leaps anymore i think too many people look at last year and get the wrong impression. When in fact his fall of 2025 seemed to show he was getting back on track.

Even now Remco is a top 5 rider. Even if he stagnates which i'll doubt will happen fullstop. ( I do think he will improve if not cause of Red Bull then simply from being healthy and hitting his psychical prime) He'll at least make small increments. But even if he stagnates and remains the rider he is today, can you truly say that won't be enough to compete for the win. I think even his current self is good enough to compete.

Is his current self better than Vingegaard, Pogacar at GT, better than VdP,, Pogacar at 1 day races in general? No. But he's already good enough to compete with them. Cycling isn't a mathematical equation. Sometimes just being out there and being able to compete with the very best is enough. Ask Yates, Kuss, Hindley, Asgreen, Bettiol, Tersptra, Phillipsen, Mohoric, Stuyven, Van Baarle, ... . I'd argue that Remco is a better cyclist than all of them and is constantly putting himself in a position to compete for the marbles.

Too many people be knocking Remco just cause he is a contender and not the outright best in what he does outside of TT.

From the top of my head, I can only think of 2 riders that improved since Red Bull came into the sport big time. Pellizzari and Lipowitz. One turned 22 a few days ago and it would be extremely weird if he didn't improve on any team at WT level due to his age. The other has a lot fewer years at WT level than Remco, basically much less polished, just see his tactical awareness, nonexistent. Literally everyone else stagnated or has gotten worse. Remco improving, especially a lot, is not a done deal on RBH

 

[KoopaCycling]

From the top of my head, I can only think of 2 riders that improved since Red Bull came into the sport big time. Pellizzari and Lipowitz. One turned 22 a few days ago and it would be extremely weird if he didn't improve on any team at WT level due to his age. The other has a lot fewer years at WT level than Remco, basically much less polished, just see his tactical awareness, nonexistent. Literally everyone else stagnated or has gotten worse. Remco improving, especially a lot, is not a done deal on RBH

Red Bull bought a 51% controlling stake in January 2024...

Also Bora achieved some fine results through what can be argued was development.
Buchman, Hindley, Shachmann all had good results.

We all know the Red Bull addition is bound to be a step up over Bora alone though.
We just need to look at what they did in other sports. Through buying talent on and off the field. Investing in infrastructure, ... .

 

[Red Rick]

From the top of my head, I can only think of 2 riders that improved since Red Bull came into the sport big time. Pellizzari and Lipowitz. One turned 22 a few days ago and it would be extremely weird if he didn't improve on any team at WT level due to his age. The other has a lot fewer years at WT level than Remco, basically much less polished, just see his tactical awareness, nonexistent. Literally everyone else stagnated or has gotten worse. Remco improving, especially a lot, is not a done deal on RBH

Jai Hindley won the Giro in his first year at RB.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

@Red Rick @KoopaCycling

I clearly said "since Red Bull came into the sport big time". So far Red Bull improved nobody except the 2 mentioned riders, Pellizzari and Lipowitz

The rest improved before them or they didn't improve

 

[Cycling111]

Jai Hindley won the Giro in his first year at RB.

Kamna also had a spectacular Giro.

 

[Cycling111]

@Red Rick @KoopaCycling

I clearly said "since Red Bull came into the sport big time". So far Red Bull improved nobody except the 2 mentioned riders, Pellizzari and Lipowitz

The rest improved before them or they didn't improve

Dani Martinez?

He finished far behind Pogacar but was superior to G. Thomas, who almost beat Roglic in the previous Giro, and O'Connor, who finished second in the Vuelta.

Without Pogacar, Dani Martinez would have won the Giro. A rider who was a domestique in Ineos due to his inconsistency.

 

[Salvarani]

Dani Martinez?

He finished far behind Pogacar but was superior to G. Thomas, who almost beat Roglic in the previous Giro, and O'Connor, who finished second in the Vuelta.

Without Pogacar, Dani Martinez would have won the Giro. A rider who was a domestique in Ineos due to his inconsistency.

Dani M has three GC wins, two of them being Dauphine and Basque.

Finished 5th in the 2021 Giro, supporting Bernal.

Hardly a huge surprise that a guy with experience, who can climb and TT, could have a very good race and finishing on the podium. Essentially, being best of the rest among similar kind of riders in current level.

 

[Cycling111]

In the words of one of the great TV villains of all time:

"At last, a thing we agree upon"

+1000

Del Toro's Giro is overrated because of some things that are said. Some people say Del Toro´s Giro is better than Pogacar Vuelta 2019. First, they're wrong in the comparison because Del Toro's first GT was the Vuelta 2024, and there's no compoaration about that. Second, those who finished ahead in that Vuelta were the best cyclists in the world at that time, Froome was already in decline, the rivals in the Giro have been a domestique and a twilight Carapaz who had to go to win stages in the Tour and Vuelta 2024.
Third, for all this, I think Pogacar's 2019 Vuelta was better and because he was a neo-pro.

I would also add that UAE in 2019 was pure mediocrity, Pogacar was alone in that Vuelta, and Del Toro has had the best team in the Giro.No matter how much they insist, there's no comparison.

By year, they have to compare Del Toro's Giro with Pogacar's 2020 Tour, and obviously, there's no comparison. But many have done it, and they say their second year is better, which is why it's overrated.

Because of this overrating, it also tends to be underrated. For his second GT it's a great result and a great performance. The problem is thinking that because he almost beat Simon and Carapaz in the Giro, he's already qualified to fight for the Tour. And to consider him GT's third rider. He has to prove it. Hindley was also considered to be third, and the Tour is more difficult than the Giro because of the pace of the race and the rivals.

That said, he can improve his GT performance in his third year; that would be logical. Vingegaard's first two years were worse, and we saw how that turned out.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Seems like they are doing a good job then. Helping mold 2 young riders in 2 years time.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

Seems like they are doing a good job then. Helping mold 2 young riders in 2 years time.

"One turned 22 a few days ago and it would be extremely weird if he didn't improve on any team at WT level due to his age. The other has a lot fewer years at WT level than Remco, basically much less polished, just see his tactical awareness, nonexistent"

I also said this ...

 

[KoopaCycling]

"One turned 22 a few days ago and it would be extremely weird if he didn't improve on any team at WT level due to his age. The other has a lot fewer years at WT level than Remco, basically much less polished, just see his tactical awareness, nonexistent"

I also said this ...

They also have a couple of promising youngsters and bought young talent alongside proven riders. By your reckoning no team is doing a good job, outside Visma with Vingegaard.

If you gonna say 2 riders improved but they had nothing to do with it, that is like saying every team has nothing to do with it..

Clearly bora is known for being a well structured team. And red bull is known for their willingness to provide money, infrastructure and expertise.

So no both riders are actually good examples

 

[vappaxbipmv]

They also have a couple of promising youngsters and bought young talent alongside proven riders. By your reckoning no team is doing a good job, outside Visma with Vingegaard.

If you gonna say 2 riders improved but they had nothing to do with it, that is like saying every team has nothing to do with it..

No, it's like saying they improved due to age or inexperience, not because Red Bull made them improve specifically. But it's funny that we're talking so much about them, why did literally nobody else improve?

 

[KoopaCycling]

No, it's like saying they improved due to age or inexperience, not because Red Bull made them improve specifically. But it's funny that we're talking so much about them, why did literally nobody else improve?

People improved under bora. As listed before. People have improved under red bull as mentioned.

I just do not see how you think your reasoning holds water. UAE bought young talent. Provided the money to build infrastructure and knowkeldge around them. Same for Visma. Same for lidl.

Clearly red bull is doing the same. Buying young talent alongside proven riders and the money and infrastructure to succeed.

So you will just dismiss the work cause of age? Fine lets throw del toro, pogacar, almeida improvement out the window entirely as well then. After all that just natural and uae has no major part.

2 riders of Redbull came first and second at UEC youth level
But that wont count either... .

If your gonna set those srandards for redbull after 2 years and claim they arent a team were riders can improve, you need to set the same standard for every team. Given the resources they are putting at the riders disposal i would say red bull is doing just fine.

And they will be a force soon enough.

 

[Cycling111]

Dani M has three GC wins, two of them being Dauphine and Basque.

Finished 5th in the 2021 Giro, supporting Bernal.

Hardly a huge surprise that a guy with experience, who can climb and TT, could have a very good race and finishing on the podium. Essentially, being best of the rest among similar kind of riders in current level.

But he had no podium in GT where he was always inconsistent.

Jorgenson has won two Paris-Nice and has not even come close to a podium in a GT.

 

[vappaxbipmv]

People improved under bora. As listed before. People have improved under red bull as mentioned.

I just do not see how you think your reasoning holds water. UAE bought young talent. Provided the money to build infrastructure and knowkeldge around them. Same for Visma. Same for lidl.

Clearly red bull is doing the same. Buying young talent alongside proven riders and the money and infrastructure to succeed.

So you will just dismiss the work cause of age? Fine lets throw del toro, pogacar, almeida improvement out the window entirely as well then. After all that just natural and uae has no major part.

2 riders of Redbull came first and second at UEC youth level
But that wont count either... .

If your gonna set those srandards for redbull after 2 years and claim they arent a team were riders can improve, you need to set the same standard for every team. Given the resources they are putting at the riders disposal i would say red bull is doing just fine.

And they will be a force soon enough.

Isn't that the usual critic of UAE? That older riders also improve there? Wellens, Narvaez, Yates literally podiumed the Tour at UAE

I never said they won't be a force or that riders can't improve there. But most people here expect Remco to greatly improve at RBH, simply because of Red Bull part when the evidence so far shows the exact opposite, that "nobody" improves there since Red Bull got there

 

[KoopaCycling]

Isn't that the usual critic of UAE? That older riders also improve there? Wellens, Narvaez, Yates literally podiumed the Tour at UAE

I never said they won't be a force or that riders can't improve there. But most people here expect Remco to greatly improve at RBH, simply because of Red Bull part when the evidence so far shows the exact opposite, that "nobody" improves there since Red Bull got there

No that aint the case at all. Show me evidence that nobody improved. Aside from dismissing evidence that people actually improved like lipo. All evidence suggests they been strenghtening their staff and resources with the red bull money.