The revenge of Rasmussen ...

[Susan Westemeyer]

Stay on topic, please ... Rabobank.

Thank you.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Franklin,

Though the issue of Sky and Leinders is highly relevant, that wasn't the focus of the discussion on the Sky thread about Rasmussen and Rabo.

This discussion arose from another sub-discussion concerning what constitutes sufficient evidence to brand someone a doper and ban them. The Rasmussen/Rabo case came up as he was portrayed as having been sanctioned for doping, whereas in reality he was sacked by his team for misconduct and then banned by the Monaco Federation for lying to the UCI.

The fact that Leinders was employed by Rabo at the time is interesting but not relevant to why Ras got sacked and subsequently banned.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

honestly, cycling has been in far worse times and the sport only became more popular. ask fans if they care about doping and almost no one does. most people just watch it for sheer entertainment and doping actually improves entertainment. look at how slow and boring racing is today.

True fans would know last years Tour was faster then EPO fuelled Tour de farces.

Even the 2007 chicken Tour was slower.

But you already know that, as a true fan.

 

[theyoungest]

That's b.llocks. Or do you mean the average speed over the entire Tour, which is pretty meaningless?

 

[Lanark]

Back to Rabobank news, NRC has some bills from Matschiner send to Boogerd from 2006 and 2007, for a total of 16.940 euro. Matschiner confirms he send them.

It's getting time that Boogerd starts confessing as well, because this is getting a bit sad.

 

[hrotha]

Yo Netserk, the offensive part of that post wasn't that people posting in the Clinics have no lives, but that people with an anti-doping stance aren't true fans. You're welcome.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

That's b.llocks. Or do you mean the average speed over the entire Tour, which is pretty meaningless?

Now, tell me, b@llocks man, why would that be meaningless?

 

[theyoungest]

Back to Rabobank news, NRC has some bills from Matschiner send to Boogerd from 2006 and 2007, for a total of 16.940 euro. Matschiner confirms he send them.

It's getting time that Boogerd starts confessing as well, because this is getting a bit sad.

Sad on the part of Dutch media, I assume? It's ridiculous the way they're stretching this 'huge' case over months and years of front page articles. Get back to actual news, bunch of lazy a.ses.

Now, tell me, b@llocks man, why would that be meaningless?

Because flat stages are raced differently than they used to be. An all out war like we saw in the first week of last year's Tour, I don't remember seeing that in the Armstrong days. Hence the undoubtedly higher speed in those stages doesn't tell us anything.

 

[classicomano]

Back to Rabobank news, NRC has some bills from Matschiner send to Boogerd from 2006 and 2007, for a total of 16.940 euro. Matschiner confirms he send them.

It's getting time that Boogerd starts confessing as well, because this is getting a bit sad.

Boogerd is already confessing, to the proper authorities. Not the likes of Zonneveld or Kerckhoffs.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Because flat stages are raced differently than they used to be. An all out war like we saw in the first week of last year's Tour, I don't remember seeing that in the Armstrong days. Hence the undoubtedly higher speed in those stages doesn't tell us anything.

You must be right, for instance, the Cipollini train was never there.

But, you must be right, says absolutely nothing. Vayer has written a nice piece on this, but, he also knows very little.


http://www.tootlafrance.ie/?p=1185

Sad on the part of Dutch media, I assume? It's ridiculous the way they're stretching this 'huge' case over months and years of front page articles. Get back to actual news, bunch of lazy a.ses.

Please, drop the 'fanboyism', he, Boogerd, is the example for the youth of today.

 

[Netserk]

Yo Netserk, the offensive part of that post wasn't that people posting in the Clinics have no lives, but that people with an anti-doping stance aren't true fans. You're welcome.

Point taken.

 

[theyoungest]

You must be right, for instance, the Cipollini train was never there.

But, you must be right, says absolutely nothing. Vayer has written a nice piece on this, but, he also knows very little.

Did I say there weren't any sprint trains back then? It's the rest of the stage I'm talking about.

http://www.tootlafrance.ie/?p=1185Please, drop the 'fanboyism', he, Boogerd, is the example for the youth of today.

Your thinking seems to be clouded by an excessive need to point out nationalism in others, which seems to be an exlusively Dutch trait. I am not, nor have I ever been, a real fan of Boogerd. I am however a fan of actual news. It has been clear for a few years now to pretty much everyone that Boogerd doped. The Dutch media are just Matschiner's b.tches right now.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Your thinking seems to be clouded by an excessive need to point out nationalism in others, which seems to be an exlusively Dutch trait. I am not, nor have I ever been, a real fan of Boogerd. I am however a fan of actual news. It has been clear for a few years now to pretty much everyone that Boogerd doped. The Dutch media are just Matschiner's b.tches right now.

Was looking for the right word, thats why 'fanboyism' was in '''''...

I can not agree with your stance. Boogerd/Dekker E. et all must be held accountable. If it takes a dealer like Matschiner then so be it, whistleblowers are not always the nicest persons. And, do not forget, a lot of people still believe in the boogieman, a big lot that is.

 

[neineinei]

http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/02/28/boogerd-betaalde-bijna-17-000-euro-aan-dopingdealer/

 

[del1962]

http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2013/02/28/boogerd-betaalde-bijna-17-000-euro-aan-dopingdealer/

Could you translate the relevent parts to english?

 

[theyoungest]

The first 1900 euros are for a 'training plan' for the 2007 Worlds based on lactate tests, the 770 euros is airfare, and the 2000 euros is for a training around Amsterdam including lactate tests.

 

[GazelleFormula]

Boogerd confirms the existence of the bills from Matschiner.
http://nos.nl/artikel/479241-boogerd-bevestigt-dopingfacturen.html

 

[theyoungest]

Rabobank CEO Moerland said yesterday that they felt 'cheated, misled, and betrayed' by the cycling team. Thomas Dekker reacts to this on twitter (transl.):

"Dear mr. Moerland. I understand your disappointment. Things aren't always what they seem in this world. Luckily cycling has taken the right direction. How about the banks? The Libor scandal is almost finished, and then let's look ahead to the future. Have a nice day. TD."

(Rabobank has been penalized for involvement in the Libor scandal, to the amount of 330 million euros)

 

[GazelleFormula]

Haha good one to point out the double standards.

 

[sniper]

good one, but where is the evidence that cycling has taken the right direction? BS, dear TD.

 

[Aapjes]

Could you translate the relevant parts to English?

- 1900 euro for a doping-program
- 770 euro for bringing doping or bags to Boogerd
- 2000 euro for doping or transfusions

This is not an entirely literal translation.

 

[timbat]

Boogerd confesses

Story just up on cyclingnews now but this was the original I saw:

http://nos.nl/artikel/481356-boogerd-bekent-dopinggebruik.html

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

From the cyclingnews article;

Boogerd, now 40, said that he didn't use doping products while he was racing the Tour de France, instead - "It was in periods, usually periods of training in preparation for competitions. I have always ridden the Tour clean."

Boogerd actually seems to have rationalized that if he doped only to train to a higher level fitness than he would have been able to achieve clean, but then didn't actually use doping methods during the TdF itself, then it means his TdF stage wins were won clean.

WTH?! and maybe a bit of WTF to go along with it?!

 

[MarkvW]

Would the "I doped in preparation for the tour, but never during the Tour itself" excuse be prompted by worries about prosecution in the French courts?

Anybody know?

 

[ElChingon]

Boogerd, now 40, said that he didn't use doping products while he was racing the Tour de France, instead - "It was in periods, usually periods of training in preparation for competitions. I have always ridden the Tour clean."

Boogerd actually seems to have rationalized that if he doped only to train to a higher level fitness than he would have been able to achieve clean, but then didn't actually use doping methods during the TdF itself, then it means his TdF stage wins were won clean.

WTH?! and maybe a bit of WTF to go along with it?!

Yet another classic new excuse

He only used it in preparation to race the Tour not in the Tour so he's a good guy He say's he moved on to transfusions, what he transfused before and after the Tour? Man you can't make this stuff up