The ridicolous Contador vs Wiggins/Froome comparisons

[LaFlorecita]

The really question is, is can Wiggo put more time on Contador in the ITT then Contador can put on Wiggo in the mountains?

Depends on the route. With this year's route, yes, on a more normal route hell no.

 

[H2OUUP2]

The more I think about it, the more I miss Contador

Yup.

The guy can ride.

 

[LaFlorecita]

You're not factoring in that Wiggins has taken it to a new level. AC would be 40 seconds down on FC's time, meaning he would have lost 1:40 to Wiggins.

That seems about right.

 

[H2OUUP2]

Depends on the route. With this year's route, yes, on a more normal route hell no.

True.

Stupid 10 minimum characters.

 

[Armanius]

The more I think about it, the more I miss Contador

LOL!! Same here. The TDF is definitely more interesting with him.

 

[Thee_chisa]

contador was on the sauce though, isn't that general opinion?

 

[Froome19]

Why are people so upset by the "40 second" prediction. That sounds about right to me.

After being totally gassed from the Giro and riding through most of the tour, Contador was 1:07 behind Tony Martin in the 42.5 km ITT last year. Why is 40 seconds an unreasonable prediction for today's stage if Contador was rested for the Tour? To me that sounds about right.

Indeed because DT seemed to arguing with me I thought he was claiming that Contador was the better TT as I said Wiggins was better.

But 40 seconds is realistic yet in today's TT I would not have expected Contador to come 40 seconds behind Wiggins, I believe that Contador performs well is a good TT and his superiority when beating Canc for example was more down to his superior recovery.

 

[kurtinsc]

You're not factoring in that Wiggins has taken it to a new level. AC would be 40 seconds down on FC's time, meaning he would have lost 1:40 to Wiggins.

If you want to use Cancellera as the measuring stick, Contador beat Spartacus by 36 seconds in that ITT.

So that would put him 21 seconds down on Wiggins.

 

[LaFlorecita]

contador was on the sauce though, isn't that general opinion?

There is this thing called the Clinic for this general opinion.

 

[Bobby G]

Are we forgetting as well, that there will be at most, 60km of flat TT next year. Say Wiggo has a mazer and puts 2 min into AC in the TTs, I still don't think it's enough in the mountains. It's the same line I'm taking in regards to the clinic discussions.

Wiggo has proved he is WITH the best climbers here. Not even the best, just in the elite 5. Look at 2009. Who beat him? Contador by miles, a super-blooded Armstrong and Andy Schleck. Is he really that much better so far this Tour?

Those 3 are not here this year. We are seeing the best of the rest riding the tour at the moment. I've no doubt Alberto and probably AS would've ripped Sky apart on Friday.

Plus we are in a transistion phase at the moment for a lot of riders. Samu, Evans seem to be losing there edge a touch, whilst Pinot, TJVG, Kelderman seem a year or 2 off..

 

[kurtinsc]

Indeed because DT seemed to arguing with me I thought he was claiming that Contador was the better TT as I said Wiggins was better.

But 40 seconds is realistic yet in today's TT I would not have expected Contador to come 40 seconds behind Wiggins, I believe that Contador performs well is a good TT and his superiority when beating Canc for example was more down to his superior recovery.

The year he beat Spartacus in the later ITT he finished second to him in the initial ITT (15.5km... so a bit longer then a prologue). He beat Wiggins by 1 second.

I don't think he's been at that level in recent years, but I see a second per km as a reasonable expectation for what he'd lose to Wiggins.

 

[Duartista]

...What's up with that?

Don't forget that Contador made a fool out of a fully prepared Nibali in the Giro. That he eased away from Evans so many times uphill. Gaining +1 min with a serious attack. Even 1'30+ in not-topform TDF 2010 on guys like Vandenbroeck.
Now compare that to the Sky duo. Strong as they might seem, they can't shed Evans on a climb. Nibali lost what, 8 seconds on 200m sprint? And JvdBroeck attack on saturday put Froome and Wiggins on the limit...
Contador rode away from that same guy with ease when he wasn't in ultimate shape in TDF 2010. Who are we kidding?

Contador uphill is in another league than Wiggins or Froome. And I doubt he would lose more than 40 seconds on Wiggins in a topform in an ITT.

Discuss

I agrre, particularly with regard to the climbing. Time trials... maybe around a minute or a bit more (IMO)

 

[Mount Megiddo]

The year he beat Spartacus in the later ITT he finished second to him in the initial ITT (15.5km... so a bit longer then a prologue). He beat Wiggins by 1 second.

I don't think he's been at that level in recent years, but I see a second per km as a reasonable expectation for what he'd lose to Wiggins.

Not a fair yard stick. FC went out in the rain. It had dried up for the other guys.

I'm not saying Contador would lose that much on any TT, but on today's one, it would likely have been well over a minute.

 

[Thee_chisa]

There is this thing called the Clinic for this general opinion.

no i'm not insinuating, he is serving a ban for doping he is a convicted doper, correct?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Hell if you are gonna say you miss contador...i raised you Ricci Ricco.

 

[Thee_chisa]

Are we forgetting as well, that there will be at most, 60km of flat TT next year. Say Wiggo has a mazer and puts 2 min into AC in the TTs, I still don't think it's enough in the mountains. It's the same line I'm taking in regards to the clinic discussions.

Wiggo has proved he is WITH the best climbers here. Not even the best, just in the elite 5. Look at 2009. Who beat him? Contador by miles, a super-blooded Armstrong and Andy Schleck. Is he really that much better so far this Tour?

Those 3 are not here this year. We are seeing the best of the rest riding the tour at the moment. I've no doubt Alberto and probably AS would've ripped Sky apart on Friday.

Plus we are in a transistion phase at the moment for a lot of riders. Samu, Evans seem to be losing there edge a touch, whilst Pinot, TJVG, Kelderman seem a year or 2 off..

andy schleck would not be ripping anything apart.

 

[burning]

Hell if you are gonna say you miss contador...i raised you Ricci Ricco.

He cant beat a not-top-form Contador even when he was on huge stuff, why would I miss him?

 

[Thee_chisa]

Hell if you are gonna say you miss contador...i raised you Ricci Ricco.

and i'll throw in Armstrong!

 

[Zam_Olyas]

He cant beat a not-top-form Contador even when he was on huge stuff, why would I miss him?

You might not but i do.... come on, he was hilarious.

 

[Old&slow]

I doubt we will see the old Contador when he comes back.

Keep in mind if he gets caught cheating again its a life time ban. Which means a life time of bagging groceries for Contador. It would be long term financial suicide for him to tempt fate again. It will be interesting to see what he can do when he comes back. Hopefully he will live up to his word and retire.

 

[burning]

You might not but i do.... come on, he was hilarious.

I have to agree about that part though

 

[Mount Megiddo]

Wiggins has only to stay at his current level. Contador has to go back to the period at Discovery and Astana. That maybe difficult for him.

 

[Angliru]

Er, why did you start your own thread on the same subject as my thread? A bit rude.

In the last couple of tours Contador has not dominated. Last year he cracked, the year before he scrapped a win against A Schleck, only later to have it taken away. His TTing won't be much better than Evans' TTing, and look what happened to day. And his team won't be as good as sky. The tour is unlikely to have many steep climbs where he can put minutes into people. I think Wiggins may well have the edge next year.

You keep stating that "he cracked" last year without mentioning the injuries and extraordinarily hard Giro parcours that was in his legs. I do recall Wiggins struggling in the 2010 Tour and keep in mind that this Tour IS NOT EVEN HALF OVER yet and yet you're ready to start proclaiming the Wiggins era of Tour dominance. I've been motivated to start rooting for Froome to begin riding for himself and really give his bombastic teammate something to curse about to the media.

 

[H2OUUP2]

no i'm not insinuating, he is serving a ban for doping he is a convicted doper, correct?

Anyone, Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but he is not suspended for doping. There was no evidence found of doping.

He is suspended because he had a minute amount of an illegal substance in his body that he said was from contaminated beef which he admitted to having in his blood. The punishment for having that said substance in your blood stream is a two year ban.

So technically, No, he's not suspended for doping.

Again, If anyone wants to correct me on that go ahead.

And this type of conversation really shouldn't continue in here either.

 

[Thee_chisa]

You keep stating that "he cracked" last year without mentioning the injuries and extraordinarily hard Giro parcours that was in his legs. I do recall Wiggins struggling in the 2010 Tour and keep in mind that this Tour IS NOT EVEN HALF OVER yet and yet you're ready to start proclaiming the Wiggins era of Tour dominance. I've been motivated to start rooting for Froome to begin riding for himself and really give his bombastic teammate something to curse about to the media.

exactly. 9 days of racing does not a tour make!

i don't like contador as i think he is a cheat, but i love to watch him ride. great climber but with a history. he needs to keep his nose clean now as he is only young and another +ve would see a lifetime ban - he isn't in piepoli's position. i think we saw the true contador in last year's tour. in that form he is eminently beatable, be it wiggins, schleck, froome, nibali, etc