The Sprint Thread

[Happy dude]

Lots of discussion about sprinters on many different threads and many arguments over who is faster than who and under what circumstances. I personally love the sprint stages and it was Cavendish who got me in to cycling. (Watching the last 2k on Eurosport by chance one day) so who would you class as the fastest and where do you rate sprinters in comparison to each other

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I like this discussion, but we need some clarification. Do we rate sprinters only by their abilities on a flat stage? If so, does endurance play a role? Or do we take into account how versatile they are and how well they get over hills?

Based solely on their sprinting abilities (ie how I would rate them against each other on a flat stage), I'd rate the main sprinters like this:

Tier 1: Kittel
Tier 2: Cavendish
Tier 3: Kristoff, Greipel
Tier 4: Degenkolb, Bouhanni
Tier 5: Viviani, Sagan, Demare

 

[TMP401]

I like this discussion, but we need some clarification. Do we rate sprinters only by their abilities on a flat stage? If so, does endurance play a role? Or do we take into account how versatile they are and how well they get over hills?

Give your top 3, 5 etc in each circumstance

 

[Jspear]

I like this discussion, but we need some clarification. Do we rate sprinters only by their abilities on a flat stage? If so, does endurance play a role? Or do we take into account how versatile they are and how well they get over hills?

Based solely on their sprinting abilities (ie how I would rate them against each other on a flat stage), I'd rate the main sprinters like this:

Tier 1: Kittel
Tier 2: Cavendish
Tier 3: Kristoff, Greipel
Tier 4: Degenkolb, Bouhanni
Tier 5: Viviani, Sagan, Demare

I actually agree with your ratings exactly except I'd put Viviani on tier 4. Seems to me (at least based on this year so far) that he is faster than Sagan and Demare. I'm also hoping Cav can take back his sprinting title from Kittel this year. I just can't stand Kittel...any sort of hills, any wind, and he isn't there. He should just ride track.

 

[Happy dude]

I like this discussion, but we need some clarification. Do we rate sprinters only by their abilities on a flat stage? If so, does endurance play a role? Or do we take into account how versatile they are and how well they get over hills?

Based solely on their sprinting abilities (ie how I would rate them against each other on a flat stage), I'd rate the main sprinters like this:

Tier 1: Kittel
Tier 2: Cavendish
Tier 3: Kristoff, Greipel
Tier 4: Degenkolb, Bouhanni
Tier 5: Viviani, Sagan, Demare

I mean the fastest people come the end of the stage. If we're talking about all around sprinters I would go

Degenkolb
Kristoff
Lobato

In the case of full on sprint I would say

Kittel

Cavendish

Bouhanni
Greipel
Kristoff

Demare
Viviani
Degonkolb


However, I don't think kittel is as capable as Cavendish is in a disorganised sprint. As was shown a couple of times last tdf. I also think he's the least durable. And the worst climber by far. But I doubt he cares if he's the fastest.

 

[Happy dude]

I actually agree with your ratings exactly except I'd put Viviani on tier 4. Seems to me (at least based on this year so far) that he is faster than Sagan and Demare. I'm also hoping Cav can take back his sprinting title from Kittel this year. I just can't stand Kittel...any sort of hills, any wind, and he isn't there. He should just ride track.

I don't mind kittel. He's a good rider. But I prefer him not winning. I think Cav is better this year. And he came closest to beating kittel last year. I also think if Cav can get a new ettix contract. Bernie eisel might hop over and it would be HTC Highroad 5 years on.

 

[PremierAndrew]

I don't mind kittel. He's a good rider. But I prefer him not winning. I think Cav is better this year. And he came closest to beating kittel last year. I also think if Cav can get a new ettix contract. Bernie eisel might hop over and it would be HTC Highroad 5 years on.

Of course Cav will get a new contract. It's too late for him to focus on the track for Rio 2016 and he's clearly one of the top two sprinters in the world still.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Can I not at least get a thread dedication in the OP?

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I actually agree with your ratings exactly except I'd put Viviani on tier 4. Seems to me (at least based on this year so far) that he is faster than Sagan and Demare. I'm also hoping Cav can take back his sprinting title from Kittel this year. I just can't stand Kittel...any sort of hills, any wind, and he isn't there. He should just ride track.

I think that Viviani will take a step up this year. He has already delivered some decent results. However, based on previous years (I think the most fair way to compare the sprinters is to leave out 2015), I don't think he's shown enough to be put in the tier 4 category.

 

[SeriousSam]

Different category: Who is most likely to win the biggest races sprinters/sprinter esque riders compete for?

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Kristoff definitely.

 

[Netserk]

Someone like Sagan is hard to rate. In the most stacked field with everyone on top form and with their team dedicated to them, he would still get 2nd-5th. He is extremely good at placing himself and has a good kick, but he just doesn't have the top speed/raw power to be out in the wind for enough time to take the win.

 

[Happy dude]

Someone like Sagan is hard to rate. In the most stacked field with everyone on top form and with their team dedicated to them, he would still get 2nd-5th. He is extremely good at placing himself and has a good kick, but he just doesn't have the top speed/raw power to be out in the wind for enough time to take the win.

I personally don't rate Sagan. Now that degenkolb has come along I think he makes Sagan look quite mediocre. I think sagan can only push 800 watts as well. The only reason he came 2nd to 5th in the tdf was because he camped on kittels wheel on every single stage. Preventing others from trying to slipstream in the process

 

[Happy dude]

For San remo I think its between Cav kristoff and lobato
For the two cobbled classics its got to be degenkolb out of the sprinters.
For the giro I think cav the first week and then viviani or mezgec (WE FORGOT MEZGEC) better than demare IMO
For tdf I think kittel 3 Cav2 greipel 1 kristoff 1-2 bouhanni 1
For vuelta. Lobato everytime

 

[Happy dude]

We should also consider lead out trains. I think Kittels is the best but cavs has improved. I think etixx have to use the crosswinds as a weapon against Kittel.

 

[DFA123]

Different category: Who is most likely to win the biggest races sprinters/sprinter esque riders compete for?

I think Kristoff is a massive favourite for Milan-Sanremo.

In GT's Kittel to be strong favourite in any (flat) sprint stage where he starts (including in Paris). Anything lumpy then Degenkolb/Cav/Bouhanni.

Flanders - can't see any of them winning, but Sagan may go close.
P-R - Sagan and Degenkolb to finish top 10 for sure, but can't see either winning it.

Gent Weveglem / Schelderprijs etc... Whoever Giant enter.

 

[Akuryo]

Different category: Who is most likely to win the biggest races sprinters/sprinter esque riders compete for?

The ones who will get over hills most likely. So Kristoff, Degenkolb, Sagan ... Cav could be a stretch. He can climb, if he really sets his mind to it. Lookt at KBK. Even his DS did not think he could get over the hills.

 

[LPP68!]

What are the expectations for Gavira, the Columbian kid who beat Cavendisch twice, albeit on home turf. Was Cav not in shape yet, or is Gavira really as good as he looked?

 

[May0maniac]

For San remo I think its between Cav kristoff and lobato
For the two cobbled classics its got to be degenkolb out of the sprinters.
For the giro I think cav the first week and then viviani or mezgec (WE FORGOT MEZGEC) better than demare IMO
For tdf I think kittel 3 Cav2 greipel 1 kristoff 1-2 bouhanni 1
For vuelta. Lobato everytime

Yes Mezgec is underrated, but i think Kristoff could be better in the cobbled classics, he looked like a beast in last years RVV and had bad luck in P-R
and according to Paolini RVV will be his main goal for the early season.

 

[ILovecycling]

What are the expectations for Gavira, the Columbian kid who beat Cavendisch twice, albeit on home turf. Was Cav not in shape yet, or is Gavira really as good as he looked?

this is english forum, not german

To the topic:
Gaviria is in a lot better form than Cav, all south american are (except those who compete for long time in Europe).He is not that good imo.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

For San remo I think its between Cav kristoff and lobato
For the two cobbled classics its got to be degenkolb out of the sprinters.
For the giro I think cav the first week and then viviani or mezgec (WE FORGOT MEZGEC) better than demare IMO
For tdf I think kittel 3 Cav2 greipel 1 kristoff 1-2 bouhanni 1
For vuelta. Lobato everytime

I didn't forget about Mezgec. I don't think he's shown enough to be considered among the best just yet.

 

[May0maniac]

this is english forum, not german

To the topic:
Gaviria is in a lot better form than Cav, all south american are (except those who compete for long time in Europe).He is not that good imo.

Yes, but it's still impressive for a 20 year old who has never ridden in europe.
Cav was in better shape than last year and I'm pretty sure that he was in good shape, otherwise Etixx wouldn't have signed Gaviria for next season.

 

[Akuryo]

this is english forum, not german

To the topic:
Gaviria is in a lot better form than Cav, all south american are (except those who compete for long time in Europe).He is not that good imo.

Well, he is a track-star just like Keisse. So even if he is not the new Cav/Kittel, he could be a powerhouse on flat roads. Imagine a Colombian splitting the field at the northern classics

 

[Dr. Juice]

Billiard stage:

1. Kittel
2. Cavendish
3. Kristoff
4. Viviani
5. Bouhanni
6. Guardini / Greipel
7. Pelucchi
8. Lobato/ Sagan
9. Degenkolb
10. Arndt


Slightly hilly and/or long stage:

1. Kristoff
2. Lobato
3. Degenkolb
4. Cavendish (he can re-win MSR)
5. Sagan

Viviani and Bouhanni are like Cavendish but half a step below. If they are in great form they can survive such stages/races. Guardini - I have a feeling he has finally learned how to do more than 200 km + he should climb better. Let's wait.

Uphill sprints:

1. Lobato ( he destroys everybody...those sprints against Degenkolb were insane)




2. Degenkolb
3. Bouhanni ( I remember a stage in the Vuelta last year...let's hope Cofidis doesn't destroy this talented rider)
4. Sagan (he was much better in 11/12 ...let's see now at T-Saxo)
5. Valverde

 

[Hugo Koblet]

"Uphill sprints" is a broad term. Is it a Worlds Copenhagen or a Mur de Huy type sprint?