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The unfortunate evolution of Team Astana

May 26, 2009
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I don't think you have to worry about Lance winning the TdF :) Contador beats him in the mountains (and probably in the TTs too) and we'll very likely see the spaniard in yellow in Paris.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Just watch the race for the beautiful event it is. All you your hopes and wants and whatever won't change the outcome.

You've worked yourself into a tizzy over that which you have absolutely no control over. But, you can let it go :)
 
Apr 19, 2009
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racerralph said:
It all began with a very bad seed. Vinokourov busted at the Tour de France with somebody else's blood in his veins. Showing just how stupid he really is. Then we saw Kaschekin get busted too, shortly there after, out of competition. And then we had the Kazach federation stand behind their favorite sons with either no sanctions or very lenient ones meted out.
Then, suddenly, Johan Bruyneel popped out of a very short retirement (that was almost an embarrassment, as far as I'm concerned) To "mend" this broken team.
For the most part, Team Astana became team Discovery Channel resurrected, and momentarily things looked great. But the ASO stepped in and banned Astana from their races, and so Astana was barred from the Tour de France, and Alberto Contador was not allowed to defend his title at the Tour de France. For a moment, the Italian Federaton barred them too. But then on about a 10 days notice they changed their minds. Contador stepped up to the challenge and won the Giro D'Italia.
Little did the ASO realize it, but they were setting the stage for a banner year for Alberto Contador and Astana, because after being forced to sit out the Tour de France, they were fresh for the Vuelta Espana. And as we know, Alberto and Astana took the Vuelta too! He was now one of only 6 men to have won all three Grand Tours.
And then Lance decided to make a comeback.
And thus we have been treated to a show of remarkable disrespect, and strategies swarthed in layers of stealth, to make it all appear that Astana is still a "team" with a focused goal. When in fact, Astana is starting to look like it is focused solely on helping Lance Armstrong win an eighth Tour de France, and to hell with Alberto Contador.
And in the meantime the Kazach sponsors have been a despicable lot, in not properly funding their team. This season the riders of Team Astana have shown how much they ride for the love of their sport, when they hadn't been paid in months
I'd like the readers to understand that I have been a Lance fan since the mid nineties. I even went to France in 2003 to see the Tour, and witness Lance take his 5th TdF, but this time it's a very different situation.
I hope Contador whips Lance's **** this time. I hope he puts his stamp on this years Tour with the bold, aggressive style that thrilled the world in 2008. I feel the disrespect toward Alberto that has manifested itself this season has been disgraceful,and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to jump on that bandwagon. It makes me long for the dissolution of the sham "team" Astana, letting Alberto go to Garmin-Slipstream or Caisse D'epargne, or whoever, and let Lance twitter away with Johan on team Livestrong-Trek, or whoever. Then let the battle lines be truly drawn, all nonsense aside. Team Astana has truly outlived it's usefulness, I can't wait til it disappears from the peloton. the seed has only sprouted a weed, no matter how yellow a thumb Johan Bruyneel felt he had.

LOL, guess you are a Contadope fanboy.
 
May 26, 2009
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euphrades said:
LOL, guess you are a Contadope fanboy.

You really can't say he's a fanboy based on that text. He doesn't like the way Astana is run and what's happening with the team and he hopes for Contador to win over Armstrong even though he's been a Lance-fan for a long time. Simple as that. Very little sign on fanboysm.
 
Jun 24, 2009
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agreed

lostintime said:
Just watch the race for the beautiful event it is. All you your hopes and wants and whatever won't change the outcome.

You've worked yourself into a tizzy over that which you have absolutely no control over. But, you can let it go :)

Amen. Bravo!
 
Jun 24, 2009
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on top of that ...

BroDeal said:
Double spaces between paragraphs are a good thing... :)

A well thought out and succinctly composed piece of prose works much better than randomly linked run-on sentences. Who is going to (try to) read all of that? Yikes. I read every 4th word and got the point; dude is a hater for no good reason.
 
EricBikeCO said:
A well thought out and succinctly composed piece of prose works much better than randomly linked run-on sentences. Who is going to (try to) read all of that? Yikes. I read every 4th word and got the point; dude is a hater for no good reason.

I did not even bother trying to read it. Although if he is a "hater" then I guess I should put a little effort into trudging through it. :D
 
Jun 24, 2009
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Thanks for reading the content of my text corectly. Unfortunately, some folks still have a hard time understanding a point, no matter how clearly you try to describe your point to them.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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I really really liked the old Astana with Vino and Kaschenkin. I do not like the Americanization of a foreign team... The Euro's involved with cycling are more likeable than the Americans in it... I just dont like the Americans that are into Pro Cycling. Its like a cross between sick cancer marketing production and dorky lesbo Suburu advertising... Not to say there are not a lot of cool :cool: people involved with the actual racing aspect in the USA.
 
racerralph said:
Thanks for reading the content of my text corectly. Unfortunately, some folks still have a hard time understanding a point, no matter how clearly you try to describe your point to them.

You should go back and edit your post to make it easier to read.

Have to admit, I kind of dismissed it after scanning through a few sentences(too hard to read), but after reading the whole thing, it's not a bad post at all, though I'm not sure we needed a whole new thread for it as we've got several on this issue.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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racerralph said:
It all began with a very bad seed. Vinokourov busted at the Tour de France with somebody else's blood in his veins. Showing just how stupid he really is.

I dont think they made a mistake, certainly not Vino's fault.

Ralph...the centrifuge he used to autologous blood dope must have been dirty. It could have been months before...years before.

Vino probably blood doped hundreds of time during his career. He was caught once. Not to say he's a bad guy. Loved him.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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I agree, loved the old astana. I was always a fan of Vino's attacking style, even when he was really too tired to make it stick, he'd go anyway, because noone else would. Disappointed he tested positive. Didn't like Discovery or USPS don't know why, haven't liked astana since they took the disco riders.
 
BigBoat said:
Vino probably blood doped hundreds of time during his career. He was caught once. Not to say he's a bad guy. Loved him.
I don't get you here BigB. The guy was completely jacked. One of the most egregious dopers in the last decade. And his little buddy was learning the same as quickly as possible.

No need to worry, as soon as Astana can flush the Johan/Lance show, I believe they'll be back next year with an all Kazak team.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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he brings up a good point. lance joined the one team with perhaps the only person on the planet that could thrash him tete a tete today... to raise cancer awareness mind you. whatever his reasons are (i dont pretend to know) it was a di*k move. contador has shown incredible restraint, publicly.......

and i only see lance talking about cancer on twitter. im sure he does elseware, its his thing... but im not a lance fan, i dont follow him (outside twitter) so the fact that i have not seen an uptick in cancer awareness-ing going on is "interesting"
 
BigBoat said:
I dont think they made a mistake, certainly not Vino's fault.

Ralph...the centrifuge he used to autologous blood dope must have been dirty. It could have been months before...years before.

Vino probably blood doped hundreds of time during his career. He was caught once. Not to say he's a bad guy. Loved him.

Vino used someone else's blood because before the 2007 TdF the AFLD did not have the equipment to detect homologous blood doping. He thought he it was a safe technique to use in the TdF.

The reason why only Hamilton and Perez tested positive for HBT before Vino is that they were specifically targeted and their blood sent to the lab in Lausanne, which has the necessary equipment. The UCI had not been using the HBT test on random samples. This, of course, leads to the questions of why some riders are targeted and others not.

There is no way that Vino blood doped hundreds of times. That is BS you just made up, and it makes no sense. Even with EPO it takes a decent amount of time to fully recover after blood is taken, making "hundreds" of times an impossibility. Most likely Vino was blood doping a handful of times each season. He also probably started in or around 2002, let's say five years worth. The most likely top end number for Vino would be twenty to thirty times.

Hamilton's positive for HBT was certainly not due to contamination. The percent of foreign blood found in his system makes that pretty much impossible. The same is true, I believe, for Vino. Your allegation of it being blood that may have been there for months or years is BS. Using the assumption that a small guy like Vino has 5 liters of total blood, if he transfused one liter of blood then there would need to be 60 ml of contaminated blood in the one liter to account for each 1% of foreign blood population. That does not make sense.
 
May 13, 2009
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BroDeal said:
There is no way that Vino blood doped hundreds of times. That is BS you just made up, and it makes no sense. Even with EPO it takes a decent amount of time to fully recover after blood is taken, making "hundreds" of times an impossibility. Most likely Vino was blood doping a handful of times each season. He also probably started in or around 2002, let's say five years worth. The most likely top end number for Vino would be twenty to thirty times.

The argument is true for autologous transfusions. It doesn't apply to homologous transfusions which very well could add up to 100's of times.
 
Cobblestones said:
The argument is true for autologous transfusions. It doesn't apply to homologous transfusions which very well could add up to 100's of times.

That is true, but I still would doubt it because it appears that blood doping began to be used in the early 00s after it became more risky to use EPO during a race. At hundreds of times you are looking at twenty, thirty, forty times per season to add up to the required number.
 
Mar 15, 2009
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BigBoat said:
I really really liked the old Astana with Vino and Kaschenkin. I do not like the Americanization of a foreign team... The Euro's involved with cycling are more likeable than the Americans in it... I just dont like the Americans that are into Pro Cycling. Its like a cross between sick cancer marketing production and dorky lesbo Suburu advertising... Not to say there are not a lot of cool :cool: people involved with the actual racing aspect in the USA.

Is this for real or does cyclingnews pay people to post crap like this?

You LIKED Vino (and Kaschekin) blood doping and getting kicked out of the TOur de France? One sooner, the other later.

THe euros are more likeable thatn US riders?

You dont like US riders?

Is this trolling?
Take your bigotry, hate speech elsewhere.
 
Jun 24, 2009
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EricBikeCO said:
A well thought out and succinctly composed piece of prose works much better than randomly linked run-on sentences. Who is going to (try to) read all of that? Yikes. I read every 4th word and got the point; dude is a hater for no good reason.

I don't even care to defend my thread to an idiot like you. However, you definitely have your helmet straps wrapped too tightly around your empty skull when you describe me as a "hater". I don't hate anyone, not even you. I just think you're a fool. Was that short enough for you to follow?:p
 
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davestoller said:
Is this for real or does cyclingnews pay people to post crap like this?

You LIKED Vino (and Kaschekin) blood doping and getting kicked out of the TOur de France? One sooner, the other later.

THe euros are more likeable thatn US riders?

You dont like US riders?

Is this trolling?
Take your bigotry, hate speech elsewhere.

agreed.. but we know certain people talk tripe.. :D

i think it has to be remembered, if not for JB and the "americans" astana would be pretty much dead in the water, would still be being refused entry to the tour and wouldnt exist anyway..
 
May 13, 2009
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BroDeal said:
That is true, but I still would doubt it because it appears that blood doping began to be used in the early 00s after it became more risky to use EPO during a race. At hundreds of times you are looking at twenty, thirty, forty times per season to add up to the required number.

We know that Kohl got 3 (autologous ones) during last year's TdF. That's one per week. I say over the time of Vino's career 100's of homologous transfusions might be borderline possible, but highly unlikely. If I had to guess, it's probably closer to several tens.