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The unfortunate evolution of Team Astana

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Cobblestones said:
We know that Kohl got 3 (autologous ones) during last year's TdF. That's one per week. I say over the time of Vino's career 100's of homologous transfusions might be borderline possible, but highly unlikely. If I had to guess, it's probably closer to several tens.

It is one per week during the Tour de France, Kohl's big target for the year. How many Tour de France-like events does a rider do per season?

The chat between Andreu and Vaughters make it clear that Andreu was surprised that Postal was blood doping. It also seems that Vaughters got his information from Landis, so the team was not blood doping when Vaughters and Andreu were on the team. Using that info we can put the date of Postal starting blood doping after 2000. Postal seemed to have been ahead of the rest of the teams on doping practices.

Jaksche said that T-Mobile was using EPO in 2003 and 2004. He never talked about blood doping that I can remember. Ullirch moved to Coast in 2003, hooked up with Fuentes that year, and probably began blood doping. His performance level got closer to Armstrong that year. Vino, as a T-Mobile member, probably was using the same doping practices as the rest of the team. That would put Vino's use of transfusion at 2005 or later. I will guess that he actually started in the 2006 because that is when he could suddenly climb consistently in a GT and not have a bad day.

Anyway, the number of years that Vino used transfusion is likely to be quite small, as in five years or less, so hundreds of times does not make sense when you look at the events per season that he would want to transfuse for.
 
May 13, 2009
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BroDeal said:
Anyway, the number of years that Vino used transfusion is likely to be quite small, as in five years or less, so hundreds of times does not make sense when you look at the events per season that he would want to transfuse for.

I agree. As I said, if I had to guess, a number in the order of several tens of (homologous) transfusions over Vino's career seem more realistic.

I'll leave it at that and let BigBoat/flyer/Tom Morris defend his claim of 'hundreds of transfusions' from here on.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Armstrong's selfishness, pride and quest for power will eventually be his undoing. He can't hold a woman, hell his own Mum probably can't even stand him now. I'd love nothing more than he be caught out and exposed for the fraud that he is.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Indurain said:
Armstrong's selfishness, pride and quest for power will eventually be his undoing. He can't hold a woman, hell his own Mum probably can't even stand him now. I'd love nothing more than he be caught out and exposed for the fraud that he is.


I guess you know Armstrong personally then? Do tell more......

Blank? Yeah .... that happens when blinded by hate.


Such hate you express for a person you never met? Cut to the chase. . . This hate resides within you like a living room couch. Don't get too comfortable on it though, there's better choices.;)
 
May 14, 2009
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lostintime said:
I guess you know Armstrong personally then? Do tell more......

Blank? Yeah .... that happens when blinded by hate.


Such hate you express for a person you never met? Cut to the chase. . . This hate resides within you like a living room couch. Don't get too comfortable on it though, there's better choices.;)
You don't have to met him to see what kind of behaviour he had.
Who tarnished unfairly people, lab, spectators, fans and reporters to hide his own faults?
Who are the blinders?
 
Mar 19, 2009
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nobody said:
You don't have to met him to see what kind of behaviour he had.
Who tarnished unfairly people, lab, spectators, fans and reporters to hide his own faults?
Who are the blinders?

You see what you want to see though. Are you with him 24 hours a day? Do you see everything he does? That would make you all-knowing . . . like god.


I bet if we had someone monitor our every move 24/7/365, there would be many unflattering things that would be said about us. When you experience this, get back to the forum and write us how you feel about it.

Hating someone from other people's judgments is cheap. It's an easy excuse to continue the hating you already have within you. Don't blame LA or anyone else for this too.
 
lostintime said:
You see what you want to see though. Are you with him 24 hours a day? Do you see everything he does? That would make you all-knowing . . . like god.

I bet if we had someone monitor our every move 24/7/365, there would be many unflattering things that would be said about us. When you experience this, get back to the forum and write us how you feel about it.

Hating someone from other people's judgments is cheap. It's an easy excuse to continue the hating you already have within you. Don't blame LA or anyone else for this too.

I don't have to follow him around 24/7. He doped. That is a fact. He continues to lie about it and to hold himself out as hero to cancer sufferers. That tells me everything I need to know about what is inside him.
 
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BroDeal said:
I don't have to follow him around 24/7. He doped. That is a fact. He continues to lie about it and to hold himself out as hero to cancer sufferers. That tells me everything I need to know about what is inside him.

dope or no dope the lance armstrong foundation is a good thing.
 
jackhammer111 said:
dope or no dope the lance armstrong foundation is a good thing.

I do not believe the ends justify the means. History shows us that the ends usually resemble the means. A organization built on a fraud is not a good thing, no matter what it does. Armstrong is using his cancer foundation to start a commercial sports brand, showing that the cancer thing was always a scam designed to make him money in the end.
 
May 14, 2009
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lostintime said:
You see what you want to see though. Are you with him 24 hours a day? Do you see everything he does? That would make you all-knowing . . . like god.


I bet if we had someone monitor our every move 24/7/365, there would be many unflattering things that would be said about us. When you experience this, get back to the forum and write us how you feel about it.

Hating someone from other people's judgments is cheap. It's an easy excuse to continue the hating you already have within you. Don't blame LA or anyone else for this too.

No one need to see him 24 a day... you just have to hear his last speech on TDF podium or insulting voluntary people...
Who said that L'Equipe was a tabloid, who tarnished lab's technicians and other people because his samples contained EPO,...

550
 
Jun 22, 2009
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karlboss said:
I agree, loved the old astana. I was always a fan of Vino's attacking style, even when he was really too tired to make it stick, he'd go anyway, because noone else would. Disappointed he tested positive. Didn't like Discovery or USPS don't know why, haven't liked astana since they took the disco riders.

this was the saddest postive for me, Vino was my favorite rider, i still love the guy, and would personally like to see him ride again. He had a lot of heart.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
this was the saddest postive for me, Vino was my favorite rider, i still love the guy, and would personally like to see him ride again. He had a lot of heart.

same. i hoped he was clean because he rode with such heart and passion.
 

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