The Unofficial GC Standings (minus the TTT)

Jul 19, 2009
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I was curious, so I figured out what the top twenty would look like if there hadn't been a TTT. Interesting.

1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 15:17:56
2 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Française des Jeux 0:00:29
3 Rinaldo Nocentini (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 0:00:42
4 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream 0:01:28
5 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:01:37
6 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:01:46
7 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence - Lotto 0:01:52
8 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas 0:01:53
9 Tony Martin (Ger) Team Columbia - HTC 0:02:08
10 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Cervelo TestTeam 0:02:15
11 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 0:02:17
12 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:02:45
13 Brice Feillu (Fra) Agritubel 0:02:47
14 George Hincapie (USA) Team Columbia - HTC 0:03:06
15 Mikel Astarloza Chaurreau (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 0:03:28
16 Maxime Monfort (Bel) Team Columbia - HTC 0:03:39
17 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0:03:41
18 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Liquigas 0:03:42
19 Sandy Casar (Fra) Française des Jeux 0:03:53
20 Luis León Sánchez Gil (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0:03:58
 
Apr 29, 2009
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Nice work............ I was going to do that, because I to was curious.
At the end of the day, Contador still wins.
I would prefer that GC than the one we have now.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Yep, I am not a fan of the TTT in a GT, unless it is a really short one (short enough to make the differences quite close). It may not change the winner, but it really does change the mix of the top 10, and it is cool to see how others perform.

FWIW I think this year's TTT was quite the experiment and it will not likely be repeated in the near future. Just my opinion though ...
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Nice and compressed GC. I guess the TTT spoiled their attempts to keep the racing close as possible.

Le Mevel would have been in yellow yesterday too, which would have saved us from the Hincapie whinge, whine and fingerpointing fest.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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titotito said:
I was curious, so I figured out what the top twenty would look like if there hadn't been a TTT. Interesting.

1 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 15:17:56
2 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Française des Jeux 0:00:29
3 Rinaldo Nocentini (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 0:00:42
4 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Garmin - Slipstream 0:01:28
5 Lance Armstrong (USA) Astana 0:01:37
6 Andy Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:01:46
7 Cadel Evans (Aus) Silence - Lotto 0:01:52
8 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas 0:01:53
9 Tony Martin (Ger) Team Columbia - HTC 0:02:08
10 Carlos Sastre Candil (Spa) Cervelo TestTeam 0:02:15
11 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 0:02:17
12 Fränk Schleck (Lux) Team Saxo Bank 0:02:45
13 Brice Feillu (Fra) Agritubel 0:02:47
14 George Hincapie (USA) Team Columbia - HTC 0:03:06
15 Mikel Astarloza Chaurreau (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 0:03:28
16 Maxime Monfort (Bel) Team Columbia - HTC 0:03:39
17 Christian Vande Velde (USA) Garmin - Slipstream 0:03:41
18 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) Liquigas 0:03:42
19 Sandy Casar (Fra) Française des Jeux 0:03:53
20 Luis León Sánchez Gil (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 0:03:58

I'm for throwing out the TTT, however, the times shown aren't necessarily cut and dry, i.e. team strategies and tactics would probably have changed during the race based on where the riders were prior to the ttt. All and all though, there is value in the numbers you've posted regarding trends, tendencies and abilities, not to mention how teams would have responded to breakaways...would Christophe Le Mevel and Rinaldo Nocentini be that high up?
 
Jun 16, 2009
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That is very intersting to see. It would of made the race a whole lot closer... with the tt guys like Evans and Wiggins especially could of been in striking distance or even in the lead of the tour after the tt. This years race has been shyte. The race is so closed down and unopened. Prudhomme dhould hang himself on what a ****ty course he has put. It is so uneven (My opinion on this course is nothing to do with Australia doing bad). Bring on Rotterdam in '10!:)
 
Jun 13, 2009
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6a00d8341c5e4053ef010534cf8c14970b-800wi
 
I don't think that's very helpful really.

A big stage race is a test of a complete team as well as a test of individuals.

Team strength is important. It can and should affect race outcome.

What's the GC taking out ITTs or mountaintop finishes? Would that be somehow "fairer"?

More interesting would be the state of the GC with that crosswind split removed.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Johnny Colnago said:

woah.. you are pretty funny...not. I want to see the best rider to win not the rider with the best team win(even though you need a strong team to win). It is an individual event and that's how it always should be... get rid of this team time trial crap. This is not sour grapes Johhny C, it's called wanting an even contest with the best riders winning.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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What is the ultimate aim of any GT? In my opinion, it is for an individual rider to win the overall. The team gets this individual rider across the line and will celebrate his and the team's victory. The TTT, at least in its current format of raw time gains, places too much emphasis on the team and disadvantages GC contenders with weak teams. For instance, Cadel has to slow down in the TTT for the remainder of the team to catch up to him. While the team is important for any individual's success, and we saw that with Sastre last year and Armstrong during the Discovery/US Postal years, the TTT is disproportionate in its emphasis on the team over the individual. I don't watch GTs to see which team will win the team classification, I watch it for the individual winning the overall.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Those Aussie's eh! Take out the TTT and Evans is still out of the running. What's the next trick? Oh yeah. Whinging wheel sucker Evans is off to the doc. Apparently his failure yesterday, as he was spat out the back(oh how I laughed), is down to some medical condition( I laughed even louder at that one).

My diagnosis is lack of talent.:p
 
Jul 7, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
I want to see the best rider to win not the rider with the best team win(even though you need a strong team to win).

Dude, road cycling is and has always been a team sport. If you want to see the best rider win without a team check out MTB or the kilo.
 
Jun 18, 2009
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auscyclefan94 said:
woah.. you are pretty funny...not. I want to see the best rider to win not the rider with the best team win(even though you need a strong team to win). It is an individual event and that's how it always should be... get rid of this team time trial crap. This is not sour grapes Johhny C, it's called wanting an even contest with the best riders winning.

I think they were his tissues 'cause Armstrong dropped from 2nd to 5th! ;)

Edit: And Titotito, thanks for doing that. I too had thought of it (but was too lazy). Pretty much anyone in the top 15 would have a shot at the podium and many of the GC contenders would still believe they have a shot at the overall!
 
Apr 11, 2009
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Sure gives a different perspective. :D

Wow:
2 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Française des Jeux 0:00:29
3 Rinaldo Nocentini (Ita) AG2R La Mondiale 0:00:42

If some French teams could TT with the best, they would be competitive.

And Cadel still within two minutes and essentially the same time as Andy Schleck, despite the bad day at Verbier.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Yeah, AC would totally win the Tour if he were riding for Skil Shimano if the TTT wasn't included. :rolleyes:

While we're at it, why don't we do an Unofficial GC Standings (minus the TTT, ITT, Mountain Stages, Sprinters Stages)
 
Jul 20, 2009
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do remember that hell to the north year when i think it was boonens teammate was caught doping but boonen won after the guy pulled for like 35 k and drop everybody in the world that was chasing ! there is more then one way to skin a cat ! and boonen got his rock !
 
Jun 18, 2009
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I'm ok with the TT. Just bring back the time loss limits. Good teams should be rewarded. Besides, it's nearly impossible to imagine to an individual winning without a decent team.
 
Jul 16, 2009
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As mentioned before these numbers aren't real. The standings prior to each stage determines which riders are let go and which riders the GC chased.

Both Nocintini and Le Mevel were allowed to get breakaways because they aren't GC contenders. Nocentini was 40th in the stage 1 ITT, Le Mevel 128th. Both lost over two and a half minutes to Contador in the climbs of stage 15.

I like the TTT, but agree maybe a limit should be placed on how much time an individual can be gain. Would you really want to watch every year if the best individual rider never won, just the guy on the best team?
 
Jun 18, 2009
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Animal said:
No. A stage race is a test of teams too.

Padeiro said:
Dude, road cycling is and has always been a team sport. If you want to see the best rider win without a team check out MTB or the kilo.

horseman said:
In fact why bother racing at all, we could just pick the winner from the bookies odds ratings.

Can you posters please tell me who has won the most Tour de France races?
 
Apr 20, 2009
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Padeiro said:
Yeah, AC would totally win the Tour if he were riding for Skil Shimano if the TTT wasn't included. :rolleyes:

Thats exactly the point McFly. There is A L R E A D Y enough of an emphasis (without a ttt) on having a strong team, when aiming for the overall. The TTT grossly distorts this.