Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[Oldermanish]

I think it's pretty obvious that Pinot never really liked all the attention; he did the "disappears from public for weeks" thing long before Vingegaard. In fact, his dislike of attention has frequently been stated as one of his greatest achilles' heels.

Or greatest relief from pointlessly unrelenting stress from fans and press. Not everyone is built to have a personal colonoscopy adminstered by strangers every day.

 

[RedheadDane]

Or greatest relief from pointlessly unrelenting stress from fans and press. Not everyone is built to have a personal colonoscopy adminstered by strangers every day.

I'm a little confused... how exactly does not liking attention provide relief from attention that happens anyway?

 

[movingtarget]

Or greatest relief from pointlessly unrelenting stress from fans and press. Not everyone is built to have a personal colonoscopy adminstered by strangers every day.

Quite a few riders had to deal with that especially French riders that were often singled out as the next Tour winner etc........often those claims were not based on reality or results. Pinot only got his podium cause Contador and Froome dropped out, not that he didn't deserve his result. There are always hard luck stories even for the best riders. Some used to say that French riders on French teams were soft because they were pampered and indulged, maybe not so much now. I think Pinot struggled with the three week racing format with a few exceptions like his podium and the two Giro results but his completion record is poor. Not sure he had the physical constitution to regularly do well in three week races. In the third weeks he often got sick or had back problems or issues with the heat and when he crashed that just made it even harder for him physically. Maybe his character had something to do with it. But its only a small group of riders that can regularly hit the podium or top five in grand tours and many winners are multiple winners. No doubt the stresses of three week racing especially as a team captain are gruelling.

 

[Oldermanish]

I'm a little confused... how exactly does not liking attention provide relief from attention that happens anyway?

Referring to your inclusion: he did the "disappears from public for weeks" thing long before Vingegaard

 

[Oldermanish]

Quite a few riders had to deal with that especially French riders that were often singled out as the next Tour winner etc........often those claims were not based on reality or results. Pinot only got his podium cause Contador and Froome dropped out, not that he didn't deserve his result. There are always hard luck stories even for the best riders. Some used to say that French riders on French teams were soft because they were pampered and indulged, maybe not so much now. I think Pinot struggled with the three week racing format with a few exceptions like his podium and the two Giro results but his completion record is poor. Not sure he had the physical constitution to regularly do well in three week races. In the third weeks he often got sick or had back problems or issues with the heat and when he crashed that just made it even harder for him physically. Maybe his character had something to do with it. But its only a small group of riders that can regularly hit the podium or top five in grand tours and many winners are multiple winners. No doubt the stresses of three week racing especially as a team captain are gruelling.

The "gift" podium aside; he was in the serious mix until his back no longer responded and was the only rider putting serious hurt on Bernal. It was one of the most interesting Tours until he abandoned.

 

[RedheadDane]

Referring to your inclusion: he did the "disappears from public for weeks" thing long before Vingegaard

Of course, but that never really helped while racing.
He couldn't very well go spend time with his goats in the middle of the TdF. Apart from that one time...

The "gift" podium aside; he was in the serious mix until his back no longer responded and was the only rider putting serious hurt on Bernal. It was one of the most interesting Tours until he abandoned.

That was his leg... the back was 2020.

 

[Tonton]

So here we are, one final campaign for Thibaut Pinot.

What I smell is a lot of Italy on the schedule. That's where he comes to life. The circus is in Italian, less pressure from the media, closer to the fans, what's not to like?

Historically, Pinot's seasons have had measuring sticks. Tirreno has been one of those races over the years. He never won it, I would argue, because of a cancelled stage, he was ahead of Nibali...

After a couple of prep' races in France, sure enough, Tibopino raced in Italy, les Strade Bianche, finishing s.t. as MVP. He didn't sprint for 12th. That shows a good running engine though. And skills, and focus.

So...Tirreno, and not too bad of an ITT for THE guy who knows that during stage 1 of a big race, heavy rain, you cannot crash or your season/career may be over.

We'll see. In the end the goal is Italy., Il Giro and Lombardia,

 

[Extinction]

The "gift" podium aside; he was in the serious mix until his back no longer responded and was the only rider putting serious hurt on Bernal. It was one of the most interesting Tours until he abandoned.

It was the weird thigh cramping that did him in, which only demonstrated that his mind was so fragile that it causes him physically to break down. You cannot win the Tour like that.

 

[SHAD0W93]

It was the weird thigh cramping that did him in, which only demonstrated that his mind was so fragile that it causes him physically to break down. You cannot win the Tour like that.

Sound like @macbindle.
He injured his knee and road through it for some stages before withdrawing because it kept getting worse. It’s hard to say how pain affects someone. He had visibly gotten worse as time went on before finally struggling to put weight on his leg. Everyone’s body would give out eventually and that’s why people gave Quintana problems even though it was a pain med.

 

[Extinction]

Sound like @macbindle.
He injured his knee and road through it for some stages before withdrawing because it kept getting worse. It’s hard to say how pain affects someone. He had visibly gotten worse as time went on before finally struggling to put weight on his leg. Everyone’s body would give out eventually and that’s why people gave Quintana problems even though it was a pain med.

As I recall, just when he was possibly in a position to win the Tour, all of a sudden on that ill-fated stage his thigh inexplicably seized up. If that's not a powerful example of how a mind overwhelmed with stress, in this case to continue to perform well, can cause physical imparments, then I don't know what is. He did nothing to his thigh before and yet out of the blue he cramped so badly he could no longer turn the peddles.

 

[SHAD0W93]

As I recall, just when he was possibly in a position to win the Tour, all of a sudden on that ill-fated stage his thigh inexplicably seized up. If that's not a powerful example of how a mind overwhelmed with stress, in this case to continue to perform well, can cause physical imparments, then I don't know what is. He did nothing to his thigh before and yet out of the blue he cramped so badly he could no longer turn the peddles.

You recalled wrong.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/thibaut-pinot-abandons-tour-de-france-2019-432786

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/thibaut-pinot-abandons-tour-de-france-2019-432786

The Tour de France is so unfair

www.sbnation.com

Like I said, he injured his knee(second article says upper thigh) previously, rode on it a few days, and finally abandoned. It wasn’t a spur of the moment injury. Further, cramps aren’t a spur of the moment thing brought on by stress. It’s your muscles finally giving out from being overworked and not replacing your fluids and electrolytes. Now with that the case could be made that physically his body couldn’t handle 3 weeks all the time and that’s why he had issues previously. But there has been no evidence to show he has been mentally weak. In fact the opposite with his ability to overcome his fear of descending and the wet.

 

[Extinction]

You recalled wrong.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/thibaut-pinot-abandons-tour-de-france-2019-432786

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/thibaut-pinot-abandons-tour-de-france-2019-432786

The Tour de France is so unfair

www.sbnation.com

Like I said, he injured his knee(second article says upper thigh) previously, rode on it a few days, and finally abandoned. It wasn’t a spur of the moment injury. Further, cramps aren’t a spur of the moment thing brought on by stress. It’s your muscles finally giving out from being overworked and not replacing your fluids and electrolytes. Now with that the case could be made that physically his body couldn’t handle 3 weeks all the time and that’s why he had issues previously. But there has been no evidence to show he has been mentally weak. In fact the opposite with his ability to overcome his fear of descending and the wet.

Honestly that's news to me, as the coverage I got at the time mentioned nothing of a muscle tear as causing the pain. To the contrary, I distinctively recall the shock in the commentary over the "out of the blue" nature of the phenomenon. So if the report in the article you posted is accurate, then I wasn't wrong just uninformed.

But of course that changes things I'll admit. And while there's nothing to disagree with your physiological assessments, all I'm saying is that the mind can have a powerful effect on ones physical well-being. It's like we know illness is caused by bacterial or viral infection, but have you ever noticed how we often get sick (as I certainly have) following an intensely stressful period say on the job or due to emotional relate issues? It's as if the adverse mental state caused a weakened immune system, thus in an otherwise healthy body making us more succeptible to catching the flu or it degenerating to pneumonia.

At any rate, Pinot's physical trials aside, I still think he has suffered in a particular way from the negative effects of mental stress at critical moments during his career.

 

[RedheadDane]

Honestly that's news to me, as the coverage I got at the time mentioned nothing of a muscle tear as causing the pain. To the contrary, I distinctively recall the shock in the commentary over the "out of the blue" nature of the phenomenon. So if the report in the article you posted is accurate, then I wasn't wrong just uninformed.

I think it would have seem a bit "out of the blue" for commentators, as the team had - obviously - been keeping the injury under wraps.
However, those of us watching on Danish TV2 were kinda informed before the stage; Chris Anker was on the moto that day, and he was told about it, for some reason... So for me, it was less shock when he got dropped, and more hope that maybe, just maybe, the reports had been wrong, and it wasn't so bad, and then sadness when it turned out that it was.

But there has been no evidence to show he has been mentally weak. In fact the opposite with his ability to overcome his fear of descending and the wet.

I think some people equates "mental strength" with "never letting things get to you". There's no doubt that things do "get to" Pinot, his reaction after having to abandon back during the 2019 TdF is a pretty clear sign of that, but he mostly seems able to pick himself up again afterwards, sometimes it just takes longer than other times.
Last year's ToTA was a pretty good example of the whole process happening quickly, from narrowly missing out on the win on stage 4, to "getting fire in his eyes", and go on to win the final stage.

And of course, you could say that win was the culmination of overcoming all the issues that started back in 2020.

 

[SHAD0W93]

lAnd while there's nothing to disagree with your physiological assessments, all I'm saying is that the mind can have a powerful effect on ones physical well-being. It's like we know illness is caused by bacterial or viral infection, but have you ever noticed how we often get sick (as I certainly have) following an intensely stressful period say on the job or due to emotional relate issues? It's as if the adverse mental state caused a weakened immune system, thus in an otherwise healthy body making us more succeptible to catching the flu or it degenerating to pneumonia.

At any rate, Pinot's physical trials aside, I still think he has suffered in a particular way from the negative effects of mental stress at critical moments during his career.

Yes, I’m sure every has had that or felt better after calling in. I’m sure every rider feels that. But the riding for 3 weeks can also cause you to physically wear down so it could be a mixture of the two. It is hard for us to say. That’s why I said physically maybe he couldn’t handle it. But mentally he’s had hardships and overcame them repeatedly. The hardest mental hurdle he had was being French on a French team.

 

[Oldermanish]

As I recall, just when he was possibly in a position to win the Tour, all of a sudden on that ill-fated stage his thigh inexplicably seized up. If that's not a powerful example of how a mind overwhelmed with stress, in this case to continue to perform well, can cause physical imparments, then I don't know what is. He did nothing to his thigh before and yet out of the blue he cramped so badly he could no longer turn the peddles.

That may be directly related to a back weakness. He is tall and once you compensate torsionally; you're going to hurt somewhere else. Hard to cure structural weaknesses like that. Ask Bernal.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Tonton

We are here for you if needed. For the baby lamb final hurray. Eventually this day will come for all of us. Our hero to retire. All hope to be lost after. But we lived didn't we? Lived to the fullest.

 

[Tonton]

It was the weird thigh cramping that did him in, which only demonstrated that his mind was so fragile that it causes him physically to break down. You cannot win the Tour like that.

The leg: he played soccer on rest day. The French journos didn't get fooled. Cold leg hitting the ball hard.

 

[Tonton]

@Tonton

We are here for you if needed. For the baby lamb final hurray. Eventually this day will come for all of us. Our hero to retire. All hope to be lost after. But we lived didn't we? Lived to the fullest.

I don't need help until Pog gets busted and once again, I was fooled, That would be too much.

One last rodeo for Tibopino, Then he retreats, surrounded by animals, I had a crow friend before covid and we talked. Imagine a goat. Coffee with a donkey. surrounded by people you love? Cool.

A recent interview suggests that he wants to end his career with a bang, Lombardia obviously, Giro definitely. If someone deserves a happy ending (tough thing when on the saddle) that's Thibaut. And it starts now with a good showing at TA.

 

[RedheadDane]

The leg: he played soccer on rest day. The French journos didn't get fooled. Cold leg hitting the ball hard.

Weren't the initial reports that he'd hit his leg against a handlebar while avoiding a crash? This is even worse! At least hitting his leg against a handlebar would have been a race-related injury.

 

[Tonton]

Weren't the initial reports that he'd hit his leg against a handlebar while avoiding a crash? This is even worse! At least hitting his leg against a handlebar would have been a race-related injury.

I have had that injury and seen many "smart" football/soccer players over the years having the same and this is clearly a football/soccer injury. Don't warm up, kick it hard, tear fibers in your quad. Playground mistake.

Maybe there was the handlebar and it got worse. But I will argue that his quad was already compromised, at the very least. Every time that the "football/soccer injury" was mentioned (and there were many), we never got a straight answer from FdJ or Madiot, no one really dared to ask Thibaut, but the truth will come out.

Then, who will care? Pog will go for 5, 6, Mas. Maybe "The New Romain is Better than Tomain".

 

[Tonton]

What is Thibaut Pinot up to these days? I was preparing a post for the "lesser known races" to be published in a week or so and came across an article published in Ouest France a couple of days ago. I thought that I would share it with you...

As you may know, Thibaut accepted the role of "Ambassador" for the Classic Grand Besançon and the Tour du Jura, which will be held on April 14th and 15th. The organizers partnered with the Tour du Doubs, which will now be scheduled on the 16th. Three days of racing, easy on the teams in terms of lodging and logistics, this may be the formula to save these races moving forward.

Official websites haven't unveiled the routes of the first two races yet, but what we know is that the CGB will finish atop the Belvedère de Montfaucon, a Super Planche de la Malate if you will, a climb that Thibaut and Arthur Vichot rode a lot when racing as teenagers for the local club. It's a toughy...

At the end of the article, Thibaut was on top of the climb, surrounded by kids and signing autographs, and he set his expectations for Il Giro: "I want to win a stage, any stage", adding that "I want to have a great season, thank the fans, share emotions with them until Il Lombardia. Today I rode with 6 year-olds, that's the age when I started, it brought back memories".

Indeed, earlier that day, Thibaut was in Salins participating in a sprinting competition and losing a close contest against little Léo. Then he went on a group ride with a dozen local kids before a solo ride on my favorite of all climbs: Le Mont Poupet. For the first time ever it will be featured in a pro race, as the MTF of the Tour du Jura. It was my late uncle Alain's weekly challenge, I rode it twice and both times the upper ramp got the better of me and I had to put a foot down. It's a serious climb by any standard:

I hope that Thibaut wins this bike race on April 15: it would mean a lot to me. In the article he describes Le Mont Poupet as "a cool forrest, the kind of place that I enjoy, no cars, and a very nice climb".

Then on April 16 is the Tour du Doubs. No sprint finish this year after Thibaut vented his frustration in '21, having been brought back after a solo attack in the descent leading to Pontarlier. The organizers took notice and the finish will be on the Larmont mountain, which happens to be a training climb for the CC Etupes, Thibaut's team before he joined FdJ. We have an official route on the race's website and here's the profile:

Le Larmont is 6.6 km at 5.3% average with a few steep sections and its profile is nowhere to be found...so I created one:

It's a long post, I hope you enjoyed it .

 

[Tonton]

Looking at Thibaut Pinot's race calendar/build-up for Il Giro, today's stage had to be marked in red: it was the final test before his #1 objective. It was huge.

Now we know: Thibaut will show up in Italy feeling good about his preparation, he will have 27 race days in his legs, similar to '17 (24), and way more than '18 (14 ).

Thibaut's declared goal is a stage win. He can do it. Yet I can't help but think, as I wrote last year, that Tibopino wants another crack at Il Giro...wear pink, if only for one day.

It's too much to ask, the Pinot-GC ship has sailed, the route and the opposition are too much, he'll give it all and that won't be enough, so how about a bit of luck for once?

Vai Thibaut!

 

[RedheadDane]

Here he is, giving a signature to a super-fan:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1651556959504441344

 

[Rob5091]

As the first stage is a TT, I think Pinot's hopes of wearing Pink for even just a day will be tough. Breakaway win, yes, if he's like Carapaz at the Vuelta last year and loses a bunch of time, then he could go all in during week 2 & 3 for KOM or stages.
"a bit of luck for once?" That's always needed!

 

[Oldermanish]

Weren't the initial reports that he'd hit his leg against a handlebar while avoiding a crash? This is even worse! At least hitting his leg against a handlebar would have been a race-related injury.

I had heard that after so much speculation. Hitting the area just above the knee with the end of handlebar is like getting nailed with a hammer. The nerves don't like that and it'd take some injected 'roids to take the swelling down if that's what happened. Ouchie!
He looked pretty good on Stage 4 of Romandie. Rode like his old self chasing that Brit fella....that won.