Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Don't know if he should go to the Giro next year, if the Big 4 decides to turn up (100th edition), it could be THE chance for a podium (or perhaps more against fatigued Froome/Quintana) at the Tour.

Froome is never gonna dump the Tour for the Giro. As LA did, he will keep riding the Tour year in year out.
No chance next year he's going for the Giro.

Quintana wants a Tour... even more if this year he manages to win La Vuelta. So again no chances to see him at Giro next year.

Why would he ? It's the world's biggest race and he has won it three times. All of the top four will do the Tour next year. Froome because it's expected, Quintana because he wants a win, Contador because it's been so long since he had a result and Nibali because he is with a new team and he will be expected to do it plus he just won the Giro this year.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

Don't know if he should go to the Giro next year, if the Big 4 decides to turn up (100th edition), it could be THE chance for a podium (or perhaps more against fatigued Froome/Quintana) at the Tour.

Froome is never gonna dump the Tour for the Giro. As LA did, he will keep riding the Tour year in year out.
No chance next year he's going for the Giro.

Quintana wants a Tour... even more if this year he manages to win La Vuelta. So again no chances to see him at Giro next year.

I tend to agree with you. It would be the chase for the missing GT for Nairo, and it's tempting to see Sky as the new USPS, going for the big prize year in year out.

AG2R will be loaded in '17 with Bardet, Geniez, Vuillermoz, and more...a bunch of top-10 GT material: they can split between Giro and Tour and still have very strong teams.

FDJ won't be in that situation,and as it appears, the sponsor pretty much decides the GT rosters. So Pinot is throwing his weight in the balance, although I thought that participating in the '17 Giro was discussed when he was negotiating his two-year contract extension. The '17 Giro talks for Tibopino began in '15 after all.

Giro-Tour? Cool. Giro-Vuelta? Great! We shall see.

 

[veji11]

Virus: mono is not clearly spelled as the culprit. Looking at the data he released a few years ago, Thibaut was/is riding more or less 19 thousand km a year. This year, before the Dauphine, according to his Strava data, he was already at close to 15. That's way more than usual.

So I wonder: was it a virus? Yes. If so, what was it? Mono seems to be the answer. Or was it his bro and Grappe being greedy and stupid, and Tibopino was completely over trained, peaked it Romandie, died in the Dauphine, still did great at the French Championship, but showed up at the TdF on an empty tank...

Recently, Strava shows no ride for four weeks after the TdF, a few MTB rides including a KOM two weeks ago, then nothing.

As it turns out, he had the perfect set up for the Giro...except that it wasn't the goal...

WTF is going on ...

Very possible... to some extent, now that he is a known quantity close to maturity, he should probably focus on quality of training and racing over quantity.

 

[Tonton]

Tibopino likes the '17 TdF route, which conveniently passes through his hometown (or very close to it - looking at the map it has to). He said "I'm in". Froome won't go to the Giro (in l'Equipe today), Quintana will like the TdF course, be feeling good after his Vuelta triumph. I hope that Thibaut just reacted, that he'll think twice, race the Giro. TdF? For a stage, the polka dot maybe. I hope he over-reacted.

 

[manolo57]

Tibopino likes the '17 TdF route, which conveniently passes through his hometown (or very close to it - looking at the map it has to). He said "I'm in". Froome won't go to the Giro (in l'Equipe today), Quintana will like the TdF course, be feeling good after his Vuelta triumph. I hope that Thibaut just reacted, that he'll think twice, race the Giro. TdF? For a stage, the polka dot maybe. I hope he over-reacted.

That's not because he said he will go to the TDF that he can't go to the Giro !

 

[Tonton]

Tibopino likes the '17 TdF route, which conveniently passes through his hometown (or very close to it - looking at the map it has to). He said "I'm in". Froome won't go to the Giro (in l'Equipe today), Quintana will like the TdF course, be feeling good after his Vuelta triumph. I hope that Thibaut just reacted, that he'll think twice, race the Giro. TdF? For a stage, the polka dot maybe. I hope he over-reacted.

That's not because he said he will go to the TDF that he can't go to the Giro !

Hope so. But then he needs to lose big time before the Jura stages, and they are early in the race. Stage 9 will make you a legend: the trio of climbs by the toughest sides, he wants it. I'm from that area: I would kill (so to speak) to win this.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Pinot is practically obliged to do the Tour, as a French leader. I don't really believe that there was a question mark about his participation.

I do believe he will do the Giro first, because the race design will suit him more.

 

[yaco]

Seems to be a suitable parcours for Pinot - Think he will ride both the Giro and the TDF - Question is which one will he focus on GC.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Pinot is practically obliged to do the Tour, as a French leader. I don't really believe that there was a question mark about his participation.

I do believe he will do the Giro first, because the race design will suit him more.

And you may be right, Alexandre mon ami: if you read the interviews, articles published the past week, this could be the plan. Including an excellent article in Liberation that talks about cycling-business against Pinot and Bardet's best interests: the conclusion was that Bardet has 2/10 chances of doing the Giro because he's hot after his runner-up finish, the media and masses would not understand him racing the Giro and stage hunting at the TdF, which course suits him well. On the other hand, Tibopino needs to build himself back up, and Liberation rates his chances to do the Giro at at least 6/10. As long as he goes to the Tour as a maverick, Vino-style. But I see a problem (or more)...

In order to go for stages or KOM when Giro-tired, he would have to lose time early, meaning he would need to suck in Franche-Comte...only way out would be a 5 minute loss on the road to Les Rousses. Because he'll go for PDBF. And the trio stage 9: that's too big of a dream. Sucking in Franche-Comte is not an option for a Franc-Comtois. Trust me, I'm one of them .

Say that he's fresh after the Giro, does well week 1 in Franche-Comte, he needs a big loss quickly before the vultures (in Polish, Majka) get in the breaks and rack up KOM points.

You see where I'm going with that: Pinot and Madiot need a solid business plan to sell to FDJ forthe Giro project to happen.

 

[Alpe-Thibaut]

Hope that Thibaut can have the ticket to Italy.Route suits him ,train is as good as AG2R.He can finish at TOP5 just like Rolland did in 2014.Then,like Majka,hunting for stage win or KOM in the Tour.Demare takes up the position of team leader.Thibaut need a chance to win the titie of GT to catch Aru.But what Arnaud should do is cross the finish line before Cav,Marcel and other sprinters in the TDF.

 

[Alexandre B.]

He'll bleed out time in the non-French stages Tonton, mark my words.

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

Pinot is practically obliged to do the Tour, as a French leader. I don't really believe that there was a question mark about his participation.

I do believe he will do the Giro first, because the race design will suit him more.

And you may be right, Alexandre mon ami: if you read the interviews, articles published the past week, this could be the plan. Including an excellent article in Liberation that talks about cycling-business against Pinot and Bardet's best interests: the conclusion was that Bardet has 2/10 chances of doing the Giro because he's hot after his runner-up finish, the media and masses would not understand him racing the Giro and stage hunting at the TdF, which course suits him well. On the other hand, Tibopino needs to build himself back up, and Liberation rates his chances to do the Giro at at least 6/10. As long as he goes to the Tour as a maverick, Vino-style. But I see a problem (or more)...

In order to go for stages or KOM when Giro-tired, he would have to lose time early, meaning he would need to suck in Franche-Comte...only way out would be a 5 minute loss on the road to Les Rousses. Because he'll go for PDBF. And the trio stage 9: that's too big of a dream. Sucking in Franche-Comte is not an option for a Franc-Comtois. Trust me, I'm one of them .

Say that he's fresh after the Giro, does well week 1 in Franche-Comte, he needs a big loss quickly before the vultures (in Polish, Majka) get in the breaks and rack up KOM points.

You see where I'm going with that: Pinot and Madiot need a solid business plan to sell to FDJ forthe Giro project to happen.

Great post, I completely agree with you!
Pinot riding the Giro for gc and stagehunting/going for the KoM jersey at the Tour would be great.

 

[yaco]

I have to ask the question - Why is Pinot riding for a French team if it restricts his program and ultimately his palmares ? Put Pinot on the open market and there would 6 to 8 teams who would bid for his services. The Giro is an excellent route for his characteristics.

 

[jens_attacks]

he's a rider who must have friends around him in order to perform well. he will never leave fdj.

 

[portugal11]

Re:

he's a rider who must have friends around him in order to perform well. he will never leave fdj.

He will never leave fjd because in other team he would be a domestique and not a leader. bardet is clearly 2 steps above him

 

[veji11]

Re: Re:

he's a rider who must have friends around him in order to perform well. he will never leave fdj.

He will never leave fjd because in other team he would be a domestique and not a leader. bardet is clearly 2 steps above him

Ok so first of all this comment is dumb as concrete.. so let's get that out of the way... Wattage, Pinot has that, He lacks punch, similar to Bardet in a way, and is a mediocre descender, but he has become a very solid time trialist and on alpine type climbs, he is part of the best bunch behind the 2 current monsters Quintana and Froome. You can't but him 2 steps behind Bardet, they are comparable.

On Pinot leaving the FDJ : he is deeply embedded in the structure, his brother is not only his personal coach but a coach for the team, he has his best friends in it. He wants to go all the way in this adventure with the team before thinking about leaving them. My bet is that he has a couple more years with the FDJ and if by the end of the 2018 season, at age 28, he hasn't succeeded in winning a GT, he will move onto something else to try and make that last step. At this stage it isn't in the cards yet though.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

he's a rider who must have friends around him in order to perform well. he will never leave fdj.

He will never leave fjd because in other team he would be a domestique and not a leader. bardet is clearly 2 steps above him

Ok so first of all this comment is dumb as concrete.. so let's get that out of the way... Wattage, Pinot has that, He lacks punch, similar to Bardet in a way, and is a mediocre descender, but he has become a very solid time trialist and on alpine type climbs, he is part of the best bunch behind the 2 current monsters Quintana and Froome. You can't but him 2 steps behind Bardet, they are comparable.

On Pinot leaving the FDJ : he is deeply embedded in the structure, his brother is not only his personal coach but a coach for the team, he has his best friends in it. He wants to go all the way in this adventure with the team before thinking about leaving them. My bet is that he has a couple more years with the FDJ and if by the end of the 2018 season, at age 28, he hasn't succeeded in winning a GT, he will move onto something else to try and make that last step. At this stage it isn't in the cards yet though.

Yes, portugal11 may have indulged a bit, a few too many glasses of vinho verde .

The comparison with Bardet is easy to make. He beat Bardet pretty much everytime head to head until the Tour '16 (in '15 Bardet finished ahead in the GC, Pinot won the biggest stage). Heck, even at the '16 Dauphine, when feeling weak, he got the stage over Romain. Having said that, for sport fans, it often comes down to "what have you done for me lately".

I agree with you. Tibopino created a cocoon, a place where he feels comfortable, with FDJ. He made it clear back in '15 that he wanted to ride the Giro in '17, extended his contract. If things don't happen his way (and I think that Madiot is on his side), FDJ better hope that Gaudu is the next best thing. At age 28, Thibaut will still be in his prime, and he will leave.

 

[veji11]

That's the way I see it too, and many structures would be happy to get him at that point, hoping for a Cadel Evans moment where he takes the last step towards victory thanks to a change of scenery that helps calm his nerves.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

he's a rider who must have friends around him in order to perform well. he will never leave fdj.

He will never leave fjd because in other team he would be a domestique and not a leader. bardet is clearly 2 steps above him

Ok so first of all this comment is dumb as concrete.. so let's get that out of the way... Wattage, Pinot has that, He lacks punch, similar to Bardet in a way, and is a mediocre descender, but he has become a very solid time trialist and on alpine type climbs, he is part of the best bunch behind the 2 current monsters Quintana and Froome. You can't but him 2 steps behind Bardet, they are comparable.

On Pinot leaving the FDJ : he is deeply embedded in the structure, his brother is not only his personal coach but a coach for the team, he has his best friends in it. He wants to go all the way in this adventure with the team before thinking about leaving them. My bet is that he has a couple more years with the FDJ and if by the end of the 2018 season, at age 28, he hasn't succeeded in winning a GT, he will move onto something else to try and make that last step. At this stage it isn't in the cards yet though.

Yes, portugal11 may have indulged a bit, a few too many glasses of vinho verde .

The comparison with Bardet is easy to make. He beat Bardet pretty much everytime head to head until the Tour '16 (in '15 Bardet finished ahead in the GC, Pinot won the biggest stage). Heck, even at the '16 Dauphine, when feeling weak, he got the stage over Romain. Having said that, for sport fans, it often comes down to "what have you done for me lately".

I agree with you. Tibopino created a cocoon, a place where he feels comfortable, with FDJ. He made it clear back in '15 that he wanted to ride the Giro in '17, extended his contract. If things don't happen his way (and I think that Madiot is on his side), FDJ better hope that Gaudu is the next best thing. At age 28, Thibaut will still be in his prime, and he will leave.

Pinot is better in one week races than bardet because bardet wants to superpeak for le tour. bardet has a build up of shape similar to froome. Bardet in dauphine was very strong and pinot was nowhere to be seen in gc. For me, a top shape bardet is two steps above pinot, he is more climber, more consistent, more descender, more killer instinct. pinot only beats bardet in time trials. bardet is increasing his capacity in three weeks every year while pinot isn't better than 2 years ago

 

[Valv.Piti]

Bardet doesn't super peak, he is decent in one week races and usually do well in L-B-L, a race he has been on the record saying he wants to win and means a lot to him. As far as I can remember, he hasn't been super good this year apart from Dauphine/Tour, but he usually is.

 

[@NL_LeMondFans]

Re:

Bardet doesn't super peak, he is decent in one week races and usually do well in L-B-L, a race he has been on the record saying he wants to win and means a lot to him. As far as I can remember, he hasn't been super good this year apart from Dauphine/Tour, but he usually is.

Bardet did good at both Oman (2nd) and Lombardia (4th), so you could say he's had a good year, considering what happened in between

Pinot is a very gifted rider but I think he is soft. And it's ok, you're allowed to be soft. Unless you want to be a GT rider. He's probably more well-suited for 3 weeks races than Bardet in terms of potential but his head won't follow. I think him being out of contract with FDJ was a real test. I don't know what they've planned for him to make him stay but regarding his state of mind... I think only switching teams could have made him reach another step. I think he said once in an interview that there were not that many things that he liked more than being at home and go fishing. I could be wrong but I don't think he has it in him, a little bit like Jean-François Bernard.

Imagine for a second Pinot working for Froome at Sky...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Oh yeah, I totally forgot that Lombardia performance.

 

[veji11]

Re: Re:

Bardet doesn't super peak, he is decent in one week races and usually do well in L-B-L, a race he has been on the record saying he wants to win and means a lot to him. As far as I can remember, he hasn't been super good this year apart from Dauphine/Tour, but he usually is.

Bardet did good at both Oman (2nd) and Lombardia (4th), so you could say he's had a good year, considering what happened in between

Pinot is a very gifted rider but I think he is soft. And it's ok, you're allowed to be soft. Unless you want to be a GT rider. He's probably more well-suited for 3 weeks races than Bardet in terms of potential but his head won't follow. I think him being out of contract with FDJ was a real test. I don't know what they've planned for him to make him stay but regarding his state of mind... I think only switching teams could have made him reach another step. I think he said once in an interview that there were not that many things that he liked more than being at home and go fishing. I could be wrong but I don't think he has it in him, a little bit like Jean-François Bernard.

Imagine for a second Pinot working for Froome at Sky...

Some riders have this soft/loser tag and it takes them a while to put things together. Cadel Evans was a pretty good example, Joep Zoetemelk too, etc.. Pinot seems to be indeed mentally fragile. Will he overcome this hurdle, I don't know, but the talent AND the palmares is there to be something far else than a domestique as Portugal11 foolishly stated

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

Bardet doesn't super peak, he is decent in one week races and usually do well in L-B-L, a race he has been on the record saying he wants to win and means a lot to him. As far as I can remember, he hasn't been super good this year apart from Dauphine/Tour, but he usually is.

Bardet did good at both Oman (2nd) and Lombardia (4th), so you could say he's had a good year, considering what happened in between

Pinot is a very gifted rider but I think he is soft. And it's ok, you're allowed to be soft. Unless you want to be a GT rider. He's probably more well-suited for 3 weeks races than Bardet in terms of potential but his head won't follow. I think him being out of contract with FDJ was a real test. I don't know what they've planned for him to make him stay but regarding his state of mind... I think only switching teams could have made him reach another step. I think he said once in an interview that there were not that many things that he liked more than being at home and go fishing. I could be wrong but I don't think he has it in him, a little bit like Jean-François Bernard.

Imagine for a second Pinot working for Froome at Sky...

Some riders have this soft/loser tag and it takes them a while to put things together. Cadel Evans was a pretty good example, Joep Zoetemelk too, etc.. Pinot seems to be indeed mentally fragile. Will he overcome this hurdle, I don't know, but the talent AND the palmares is there to be something far else than a domestique as Portugal11 foolishly stated

Mental strenght is what separates a super domestique from a leader. pinot doesn't have it and he is very limited ( he has a good time trial among gc guys and that's it. i don't hate pinot but he seems a uran 2 for me.

 

[Cannibal72]

It's worth noting that he's developed that good TT. It was hardly a signature part of his style two or three years ago, which suggests he is ready to work to improve his skill set.