Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

I find Pinot to be one of the strangest riders of the peloton. A bit like Hesjedal (bad comparison overall), I feel like I never really can trust the guy to deliver as I always have the feeling he might crack big time or have a pretty bad day.

Well then...It would be cool if this is the year he wins the Giro.

I don't hope he will as I like a couple of other rider better, but lets see, he seems to be liking racing in Italy so far this season and he seems strong. Just lacks something on actual mountains so far.

 

[veji11]

Re:

I find Pinot to be one of the strangest riders of the peloton. A bit like Hesjedal (bad comparison overall), I feel like I never really can trust the guy to deliver as I always have the feeling he might crack big time or have a pretty bad day.

To me the best comparison for Pinot is Evans.. He was really good, really promising but he kept tripping up when it seemed like his moment would come, like at the 2008 Tour or 2002 giro... And then quite late in his career came the moment when it clicked and he had his great 2009-2011 run. I feel the same could very well happen with Pinot, hovering around cracking when it matters until one day he gets it right when the opening comes. I just hope he doesn't have to wait that long.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I find Pinot to be one of the strangest riders of the peloton. A bit like Hesjedal (bad comparison overall), I feel like I never really can trust the guy to deliver as I always have the feeling he might crack big time or have a pretty bad day.

To me the best comparison for Pinot is Evans.. He was really good, really promising but he kept tripping up when it seemed like his moment would come, like at the 2008 Tour or 2002 giro... And then quite late in his career came the moment when it clicked and he had his great 2009-2011 run. I feel the same could very well happen with Pinot, hovering around cracking when it matters until one day he gets it right when the opening comes. I just hope he doesn't have to wait that long.

Even before 2009 Evans results sheet was superior to Pinot's. I think you are underestimating Evans but I agree that Pinot could still improve. Do you really see him winning a GT ? Even though he was on the podium to Nibali in 2014 the margin was huge. I won't be convinced he will win a GT until he makes the podium more often. Good to see that he got over his problem with descents.

 

[lenric]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thibaut_Pinot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadel_Evans

Thibaut Pinot started his career in 2009. Ignoring the current year, he has had 7 years of competition. Compare the results in that 7 years with the results Evans had in the first 7 years of his career. You'll find out they were far better than Pinot's.

Not really comparable.

 

[dirk nowitzki]

Pinot will not win THE giro but he will arrive on the podium with 1 Nibali 2 Quintana ,
at le tour i think 1 Contador 2 Quintana 3 Froome

 

[fauniera]

Re:

Thibaut Pinot started his career in 2009. Ignoring the current year, he has had 7 years of competition. Compare the results in that 7 years with the results Evans had in the first 7 years of his career. You'll find out they were far better than Pinot's.

Not really comparable.

Pinot was 19 in 2009.

Evans was 24 when be began his road career.

Really not comparable.

 

[Tonton]

Pinot, youngest at the '12 TdF and stage winner, top-10. Youngest stage winner in the modern era, I believe. Before that, pro wins at La Settimana Lombarda (ahead of Pozzo) in '11, first on top of the Grand Colombier at the '10 Tour de l'Ain, two times stage winner at the same race in '11 (breakaway sprint vs. Taaramae and Grand Colombier MTF win), I wouldn't compare him with Evans but Tibopino has some solid creds. Much younger that Evans or Froome when he arrived onto the scene. A progression that makes sense vs. scratching our heads. His power data was published a couple of years ago, Thibaut has upside.

His development has been slower, which is good news: no "miracle". He keeps improving, and at age 26 he's now entering his prime with 19 pro-wins including many queen stages under his belt, a podium plus two other top-10s in GTs, and more, and more. I cannot understate how his performance at La Strade was pivotal to Thibaut getting to the next level. His mad dog surge a la Merckx on Terminillo backfired. He lost two close ones in Trentino. But he now feels that he can kick arse. The next step for him is to time it better.

No "miracles". I will sheer for him at Il Giro: besides Quintana, he can beat anybody. I hope that he does.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

Thibaut Pinot started his career in 2009. Ignoring the current year, he has had 7 years of competition. Compare the results in that 7 years with the results Evans had in the first 7 years of his career. You'll find out they were far better than Pinot's.

Not really comparable.

Pinot was 19 in 2009.

Evans was 24 when be began his road career.

Really not comparable.

I was comparing the first 7 years of their careers in road cycling objectively, thus leaving out, for example, the age issue (which is important, but not critical).
One way or another, they aren't comparable, no matter the criteria you want to use. Hardly anyone recognizes in Pinot the potential to win the Tour when compared to Evans in 2006/7. Not only that, but also there are more people who consider Bardet to be the most likely Tour winner of the two.

 

[Tonton]

More people? Not true. Bardet's attacking style is popular, rightfully so, his getting the podium last year in the TdF was beautiful (team tactics masterful), but head to head...nope...

The Pinot vs. Bardet feud is good for l'Equipe and the French fans, but in reality there's no comparison: both can climb, one can't ITT much better than the other. GT. For the classics, Bardet has a lot to offer, I'm biased of course but year-to-date see . Not even close/

Only '16 seems to be better for Bardet, because of that big win and podium at the TdF. I was cheering for him. But Thibaut had big wins in the spring, beating TD and Dawg in ITT, a lot to like. When it's all said and done: Bardet: pro-wins 5, Pinot 19.

Regardless, this is the Pinot thread. And Thibaut is in great shape, ready for Il Giro. He can beat anybody any day.

 

[lenric]

Bardet has 3 top-10 in the Tour in an ascending curve. Pinot hasn't. In fact, he had a 10th place, a 3rd one and a 7th one in the Vuelta, but not in the last 2 years. I guess it's obvious who's the most likely TDF winner of the two. In the last few years, GT-wise (which was the subject I was referring to, I couldn't care less about the amount of pro-wins they both have), Bardet has shown much more than Pinot, with his performance getting steadily better.

About Pinot having the capacity to beat anybody in any day in the Giro in the current days, lol. Nobody can say that without being highly emotional (nor the opposite). He still has a lot to prove in GTs.

 

[HelloDolly]

Pinot V Bardet ...the thing is for me who has the capacity to win a GT first and it has to be Pinot
Pinot has improved more at TT and at descending...he has proved his metal
Bardet is no doubt a great rider , climber , decender and a perfectionist but his TT is terrible

Unless Bardet has a consistently better TT then he has reached the pinnacle of his career with a podium at the Tour

Pinot could win a Giro (maybe not this year) and even a Tour if Quintana is not there in years to come once Froome is done

 

[Cance > TheRest]

I just read Madiot's blog about Thibaut Pinot.
"For the Giro, I see him at the same level as Quintana and Vincenzo Nibali, with something more than the other favourites".

Seems like quite a stretch in my opinion. Pinot has improved his time trial and consistency in week-long races over the last two years, but there is nothing to suggest that he can actually challenge those two. Maybe it's just classic Madiot to exaggerate things ?

 

[tobydawq]

Well, he should be able to challenge Nibali, I would think. But Nibali is definitely not at the level of Quintana, either.

Kruijswijk ought to be Quintana's biggest challenger - if he has reached the shape of last year.

And then we have a big pool with Nibali, Pinot, Adam Yates, Zakarin, Thomas, Landa and Mollema next with Dumoulin as an ominous outsider.

 

[carolina]

Re:

I just read Madiot's blog about Thibaut Pinot.
"For the Giro, I see him at the same level as Quintana and Vincenzo Nibali, with something more than the other favourites".

Seems like quite a stretch in my opinion. Pinot has improved his time trial and consistency in week-long races over the last two years, but there is nothing to suggest that he can actually challenge those two. Maybe it's just classic Madiot to exaggerate things ?

Just read the article. Madiot shouldn't hype Pinot this much. He doesn't do well with pressure, this was totally unnecessary and stupid.

I think he's a very good candidate for the podium, but not for the victory. Quintana is better on the climbs and Nibali can gain minutes on the descents.

 

[lenric]

Clearly Madiot also has something more than Quintana and Nibali: delusion.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Nope, too inconsistent. Nibali and Quintana are champions, he is not. He is at the same level as Landa, Kruijswijk, Aru etc., but nothing more than that. Needs to show me once and for all that he doesn't break mentally or psychically during 3 weeks.

 

[lenric]

With 4 top-5 (including 3 podiums, one of them being a victory, in Spain), Fabio Aru is clearly one level (at least) above Pinot. GT-wise, at least.

 

[carolina]

To be fair, Aru has had a much better team during the GTs.

 

[portugal11]

I'm not worry... I'm pretty sure that the hype train will collapse in 3 weeks... he will not do top5, he isn't consistent. And nowadays bardet is clearly one step above pinot in gt's

 

[portugal11]

Re:

To be fair, Aru has had a much better team during the GTs.

You are tonton's female version.

 

[Kazistuta]

...which comes from someone making even El Pistoleros statements seem thought through at times.

 

[carolina]

Re: Re:

To be fair, Aru has had a much better team during the GTs.

You are tonton's female version.

Not really.

Aru not only had a better team, but he also did Giro-Vuelta more then once, which is a better approach then doing always the Le Tour. Of course Aru would get better placings, the competition was weaker.

GT wise I would put them at the same level. Other then that, Pinot is clearly better.

 

[lenric]

Aru is a GT winner.
Pinot ran the Vuelta in 2013 and finished 7th (and DNF in 2014). Apart from that, his 3rd place in 2014 was also against a fairly weak competition.

Rating them equally, GT wise, is a very doubtful conclusion.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

I'm not worry... I'm pretty sure that the hype train will collapse in 3 weeks... he will not do top5, he isn't consistent. And nowadays bardet is clearly one step above pinot in gt's

Remember that you wrote Pinot would not top-50 at La Strade ?

I won't fall off the train, believe me . Inconsistent? Human...I'll leave it at that.

Quintana is the arch-favorite for the Giro. But for the podium, Thibaut has a real shot. I will quote you again in three weeks .

 

[manolo57]

The major issue of Thibaut is his mental, it's a known fact.

Nevertheless, I think that what impacts most badly on his mental is the Tour. He has no real problem to be competitive in other races. Even if he will have a bit of pressure at the Giro (he has to prove he is still a GT material), I think he will be present. We can hope big things to come, for sure.