Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[Gigs_98]

Yesterday once again showed Pinot's huge problem. He is good at everything (except descending) but not great at anything. He is your typical consistent gt rider who just doesn't have that little bit that would elevate him to the absolute champions. Then again, I was pretty sure Yates would be that kind of rider as well and apparently he isn't so maybe Pinot will one year have everything coming together for him perfectly and get his gt win.

 

[Tonton]

Bravo Thibaut! The quest for a podium spot is alive and well. Nice!

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I thought he was supposed to ride for the win and not go into the race aiming for a podium?

 

[Tonton]

Re:

I thought he was supposed to ride for the win and not go into the race aiming for a podium?

He has made very clear that he wanted the podium that he missed last year. After that, however rich the gravy can be, it's gravy. Particularly when you see what Yates is doing. I don't see the gravy in Rome TBH.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

I thought he was supposed to ride for the win and not go into the race aiming for a podium?

He has made very clear that he wanted the podium that he missed last year. After that, however rich the gravy can be, it's gravy. Particularly when you see what Yates is doing. I don't see the gravy in Rome TBH.

Fair enough, I just find it a bit embarassing that a rider like him never does anything but closing gaps and taking turns and then hopes for a sprint finish. He's better than that.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

I thought he was supposed to ride for the win and not go into the race aiming for a podium?

He has made very clear that he wanted the podium that he missed last year. After that, however rich the gravy can be, it's gravy. Particularly when you see what Yates is doing. I don't see the gravy in Rome TBH.

Fair enough, I just find it a bit embarassing that a rider like him never does anything but closing gaps and taking turns and then hopes for a sprint finish. He's better than that.

That's a way to see it. In my view, considering his past GT experiences, Pinot is a 3rd week guy, has often lost his chances early, his objective is to make it to the 3rd week and be close, with some very tough stages left. After the ITT, he and FDJ will know how to go about the final stretch. Regardless, after his struggle yesterday, he came back swinging today. Yates is just too good.

 

[roundabout]

Bravo Thibaut! The quest for a podium spot is alive and well. Nice!

The way I see it, he and Pozzovivo had a chance to gain time on Dumoulin and ended up losing time instead. But I guess this is the glass half-empty view of the stage.

 

[EroicaStradeBianche]

Only rider with balls bar Yates

 

[LaFlorecita]

I liked that Tibo was working with Tom, he's not afraid at least and after yesterday, perhaps he felt he had to give something back to Tom. He looked a little better today than yesterday, Froome looks to be out of the race for the podium again but suddenly Lopez looks like a dangerous challenger also. Damn, I wish the final 3 mountain stages were here already

 

[Bolder]

As a French national, I'm a huge fan of Pinot, but he did not race smart today. If Yates is out of reach, which he wasn't before today, why not take time from Dumoulin when it was there for the taking. Pinot looked pretty frisky today but he spent a lot of energy going sideways and waggling his elbow. It was clear that Carapaz and MAL were unreliable partners in the chase -- so just go for it...

 

[skippo12]

Re:

Only rider with balls bar Yates

Not in this Giro...today was the first time that he actually did any work uphill. In the first mountain stages he followed wheels and tried to get a few seconds in the sprint finish. Yesterday he sucked Dumoulins wheel for the entire climb. Today he was afraid of Pozzo and refused to work with him.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

Today he was afraid of Pozzo and refused to work with him.

...See Dumoulin's post race interview...Pozzo worked when FRoome was dropped, then let Dumoulin and Pinot work, then when Dumoulin was dropped worked some, Dumoulin came back, Pozzo stopped working. Come on...

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I get it from Carapaz/Lopez point of view, but what I don't get is why Pinot/Pozzo/Dumoulin don't work 100% together and then ignore the other 2.

Sure Pozzo/Pinot can be obsessed about Dumoulin winning time back in the time trial. But regardless of that, they still need to not lose time to Yates. or have Pozzo and Pinot given up on winning the Giro already?

 

[Blanco]

Re:

I get it from Carapaz/Lopez point of view, but what I don't get is why Pinot/Pozzo/Dumoulin don't work 100% together and then ignore the other 2.

Sure Pozzo/Pinot can be obsessed about Dumoulin winning time back in the time trial. But regardless of that, they still need to not lose time to Yates. or have Pozzo and Pinot given up on winning the Giro already?

To tell you the truth, I think both Pozzo and Pinot worked more when they didn't need to, and worked less when they did need.
They should've forced Dumoulin to chase Yates immediately after his second attack, on that penultimate climb, then attack him when he's on the limit, and then chase Yates full strength, no matter who's with them, as long as Dumoulin is behind.
The way I see it, both Pinot and Pozzo hasn't got the form to win the whole thing, but if Yates fades somehow in the 3rd week, they're in the game. That's why it is important to gain time on Dumoulin, cause if Yates fades, Dumoulin is second in the line.
I would call their display today as pretty dumb.

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Taking into account how it is described in Froome's thread:
Thibaut Pinot is done.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

I get it from Carapaz/Lopez point of view, but what I don't get is why Pinot/Pozzo/Dumoulin don't work 100% together and then ignore the other 2.

Sure Pozzo/Pinot can be obsessed about Dumoulin winning time back in the time trial. But regardless of that, they still need to not lose time to Yates. or have Pozzo and Pinot given up on winning the Giro already?

Pretty much. They shouldn't have worried about Dumoulin. Overtaking Dumoulin in GC is do or die on the Finestre.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I think both Pozzovivo and Pinot have given up on winning the Giro. To tell you the truth I think they had even before the race - both would have sold the Giro for a podium Im sure.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

I think both Pozzovivo and Pinot have given up on winning the Giro. To tell you the truth I think they had even before the race - both would have sold the Giro for a podium Im sure.

Before Il Giro began, with the two ITT machines Froome and Dumoulin in the picture, thoughts of winning it all were fantasy at best, unless circumstance, all stars lined up. Even I, the most optimistic Pinot fan had Dumoulin winning it. So it was about not making stupid mistakes, attacks that blow-back, not having days off and see on the eve of the ITT how things shake out. More aggressive racing, if there were thoughts about it, went down the toilet once Siccardo Riyates (like rillettes - really good and way underrated ) started killing it. That, no one had envisioned. Until then, Chaves had dropped, Aru was dropping, believing on consistency wasn't in itself a bad bet.

They won't win Il Giro...only one rider will, and that is Yates or Dumoulin.

 

[skippo12]

Re: Re:

Today he was afraid of Pozzo and refused to work with him.

...See Dumoulin's post race interview...Pozzo worked when FRoome was dropped, then let Dumoulin and Pinot work, then when Dumoulin was dropped worked some, Dumoulin came back, Pozzo stopped working. Come on...

Pozzo was the only one that worked after Froome was dropped. He had a heated exchange with Dumoulin who refused to do any work. After a few minutes Pinot joined him.
But let`s be honest...I really like Pinot and I think that he is doing a good job because he clearly isn`t the strongest uphill and limits his loses as good as he can. So far he hasn`t made any brave move or tried it with a real attack. He accelerated a few times today but wasn`t even close to dropping Pozzo or Lopez.
He isn`t doing anything crazy this year which is fine because it can possible lead to GT podium but it makes for less entertaining racing. There are other guys especially Yates and Pozzo who animate the race this year so it is not a problem.
Dumoulin complaining about the lack of help chasing Yates is laughable but that is a topic for another thread.

 

[ice&fire]

Pozzo and Pinot seem to be following Vaughters' book of race tactics and are already riding for 3rd

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Pozzo and Pinot seem to be following Vaughters' book of race tactics and are already riding for 3rd

Neither of them excite me much. Talk is cheap. Take a risk for God's sake. Yates is making many of these older riders look like chumps.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Pozzo and Pinot seem to be following Vaughters' book of race tactics and are already riding for 3rd

I can't blame them. Dumoulin is ahead in the GC with the ITT coming up, Yates is killing it, why go for broke when risk/reward is wayyyyy more risk than reward. What do you want them to do? What? After yesterday, they all looked not so good, Froome gave back more than he had gained, yet there's a Pinot/Pozzo match in the match, and they know it. Like there was a match for the young rider jersey. My point all along: once you get to stage 15-16, teams want riders to defend. Calculations. The one in pink will take advantage of it, as they chase each other. Nothing new. So my fellow Frenchman can say whatever he wants, and if he's Franc-Comtois, Breton, or Corse, he will understand: Pinot wanted that podium last year, and he's back to get it. Like he came back to the Criterium International, or Trentino. He was denied once. He won't be twice. That's his mindset.

Pinot lacks the 2-3%...true. Many ways to look at it, some are sinister. Regardless, he does his best. And here he is, the guy that was written off the GT discussion one year ago, maybe not as strong, but in the same position at Il Giro, and with a real chance to line-up at the TdF and not be a shadow of himself. Don't forget that part...

Il Grandissimo Tibopino will prevail over Pozzovino and the duo Dr. Chris and Mr. Froome. That's enough to worry about when Dumourain lost nothing so far and will BigMig the field on Tuesday, when the Giro is turned upside down by someone who was not in our predictions: Siccardo Riyates (like the rillettes of Le Mans - great but way underrated - best sandwich ever).

We can slice and dice it all we want, Pimot is not Pinault, but he brings it everyday. His best may not be good enough: that doesn't make him a loser. Wait...

Vai Tibopino! Il Grandissimo!

 

[Bolder]

^^That is all logical, and yet...we saw there was time for the taking on rivals without extraordinary effort, and it wasn't taken. Wouldn't TP feel better about his podium chances with an extra 20-30 seconds on TD and Yates? 2nd place, or at least 3rd, was available yesterday. We have seen some favorites in this race blow up spectacularly (Chaves/Aru) and underperform (Froome) -- and there's always crashes/mechanicals/unplanned comfort stops. If TP had gone balls to the wall in the last 15k he might have taken a time bonus, at least, from Pozzo.

I get that he is racing for the podium, as is Pozzo -- but make Pozzo take it from you.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Basically when you review the final 15km, there seemed to be 3 battles going on

Yates vs TD. Dumoulin the only one with the weapon to do something (TT), so had to limit the damage
Pinot vs Pozzovivo, both know there's nothing they can do against Yates now, and obviously helping Dumoulin is not doing any good either when one of the others can profit for podium.
Carapaz vs Lopez, the young rider battle, ignoring all because they are too far behind

Pinot does what he can to finish podium, and he is well on his way to do that. But Pozzovivo will be tough nut to crack, both in the TT and the mountains. And ofcourse there's a slight possiblity Dumoulin might crack and an even smaller chance that Yates might crack. Then the Giro is wide open again. Chances are slim

 

[Tonton]

FWIW, at last year's Giro, Pinot beat Pozzo by 25" and 1'07" (stage 10 and 21 respectively).