Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[Tonton]

CN's main page rest-day interview with TP, relevant to the recent posts.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pinot-for-the-moment-simon-yates-is-really-untouchable/

Missing here but not in l'Equipe, Pinot scouted the ITT course and observed that win was aiding, and the same conditions would of course create smaller gaps tomorrow...

 

[Simurgh]

Podium gone for GOOD. Top 5 isn't a certainty either. Is he sick? How can one be so horrible, restday or not?

 

[Alexandre B.]

I hope he is sick, because it’s the only reasonable explanation for such a performance.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Rest day and a considerably worse TT explains it. Chances are he isnt sick.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

So, time to change focus to something else than Grand Tours?

 

[skippo12]

He needs a GT without rest days.
Even more interesting is his problem to find a balance between climbing and time trialing. When he is showing good form in the mountains he is dreadful in the timetrials. When he is smashing the timetrials he gets dropped on the first serious climb.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Rest day and a considerably worse TT explains it. Chances are he isnt sick.

This.

Saying that I'm disappointed a HUGE understatement.

Well, things are a lot more complicated now, but there're three mountain stages left. All hope is not lost.

 

[Alexandre B.]

I hope he will go full *** (not in the Aru way) on Finestre.

Put his mark on this Giro.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Rest day and a considerably worse TT explains it. Chances are he isnt sick.

Think his team have to take a lot of the blame if this is the case. Post rest day disasters seem way too common for Pinot. He clearly needs some kind of specially tailored rest day program to keep his legs sharp - especially if the next stage is going to be an important want.

 

[Netserk]

Only a little bit worse than expected. If one had realistic expectations.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Only a little bit worse than expected. If one had realistic expectations.

Yes he has form in underwhelming TTs but that was obviously horrible.

 

[Netserk]

Don't say I didn't warn you, Tonton

From the 2nd of May (two days before the race):

Like last year, I expect Pinot to be bad after the restdays and lose significant time in the ITT.

From the 14th of May (on the restday after the first week of racing):

I think Pinot will tank the TT. Maybe even as badly as Chaves. It is after a restday

 

[Gigs_98]

Yeah, I think one could have seen this coming. As I'm neither a huge Pinot fan nor a Pinot hater I just hope that this result means he will ride the last week very aggressively. The terrain is there to get back his podium spot, but he has to take risks.

 

[SafeBet]

Terrible, much worse than last year TTs.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Just watched the TT

Oh Tibo...

 

[Tonton]

Re:

Don't say I didn't warn you, Tonton

From the 2nd of May (two days before the race):

Like last year, I expect Pinot to be bad after the restdays and lose significant time in the ITT.

From the 14th of May (on the restday after the first week of racing):

I think Pinot will tank the TT. Maybe even as badly as Chaves. It is after a restday

..stop being right Netserk . By the way, the day after Zonc you stated that one in the top-6 would lose a lot of time. Did you really think Froome was that one ?

I was afraid of this after rest-day ITT. Still, that's at least a minute slower than my worst fears...now Thibaut has to attack. It depends on what Froome will show up, taking a minute on Pozzo, a strong week-3 rider is a tough proposition. But he has to regroup tomorrow and go earn it.

 

[luckyboy]

I really thought he would be the next best contender after Froome vs Dumoulin this year. I guess he is destined for his highest point to be possible GT podium contender, rather than GT winner. Unless there is a lot of luck or he goes up against a weak Vuelta field some year.

 

[Tonton]

1'18" and 29"...getting that on Pozzo is not looking good unless Tibopino goes for broke. Half a minute on Froome is not impossible, unless we get Zonc-Froome three days in a row.

Mono-climb: Froome does them really well, little gaps, but negative gaps are really bad.

Fin-Jaff, a lottery not so much, like Glieres at the TdF, too far to count but in this case a nice set-up. Teams may be decimated, Yates and Dumo won't worry about him, Pozzovino will defend. Thibaut has to get something from this, meaningful, he has to attack.

Stage 20, Thibaut Pinot needs to make it three. After AdH '15, Grappa last year, good design for him.

Not easy, but possible. As long as he gives it all, Tibopino will have a good Giro. A lot left, the odds are not good, but he can shape his destiny.

 

[Koronin]

He needs a GT without rest days.
Even more interesting is his problem to find a balance between climbing and time trialing. When he showing good form in the mountains he is dreadful in the timetrials. When he is smashing the timetrials he gets dropped on the first serious climb.

This. It seems he can't figure out how to do both well at the same time.

 

[Escarabajo]

I don't think he is out of the podium. I think that Froome and Pozzo will fade slightly in the remaining stages. Enough to have Pinot fighting for the podium again.
I don't believe in Froome's form this Giro. And Pozzo, age will catch up with him.

 

[movingtarget]

He needs a GT without rest days.
Even more interesting is his problem to find a balance between climbing and time trialing. When he showing good form in the mountains he is dreadful in the timetrials. When he is smashing the timetrials he gets dropped on the first serious climb.

This. It seems he can't figure out how to do both well at the same time.

The Tour he podiumed in 2014 seems to be an anomaly but then Froome and Contador had crashed out which helped him onto the podium and Nibali was untouchable. More interestingly Peraud finished ahead of Pinot..........I am starting to think that a change of team would be good for him because whatever advice he is getting is not helping and I don't believe it's purely physical. Maybe some different training methods, possibly diet and working on his TT. Some sort of rethink is required maybe even changing his race calendar and a fresh perspective from another team manager could be good. If this pattern continues for a few more seasons maybe he has to think of doing what other riders have done : target the one week stage races, ride some of the hilly classics and do some stage hunting, KOM or domestique work for better riders. Rui Costa gave up on GC eventually as did Majka and Spilak. Tejay is probably thinking the same. If he doesn't improve then maybe a few more seasons of top five or top 10 finishes will convince him.

 

[Koronin]

He needs a GT without rest days.
Even more interesting is his problem to find a balance between climbing and time trialing. When he showing good form in the mountains he is dreadful in the timetrials. When he is smashing the timetrials he gets dropped on the first serious climb.

This. It seems he can't figure out how to do both well at the same time.

The Tour he podiumed in 2014 seems to be an anomaly but then Froome and Contador had crashed out which helped him onto the podium and Nibali was untouchable. More interestingly Peraud finished ahead of Pinot..........I am starting to think that a change of team would be good for him because whatever advice he is getting is not helping and I don't believe it's purely physical. Maybe some different training methods, possibly diet and working on his TT. Some sort of rethink is required maybe even changing his race calendar and a fresh perspective from another team manager could be good. If this pattern continues for a few more seasons maybe he has to think of doing what other riders have done : target the one week stage races, ride some of the hilly classics and do some stage hunting, KOM or domestique work for better riders. Rui Costa gave up on GC eventually as did Majka and Spilak. Tejay is probably thinking the same. If he doesn't improve then maybe a few more seasons of top five or top 10 finishes will convince him.

Also remember Bardet had a disastrous final TT which allowed Pinot onto the podium. However, I agree that that Tour seems to be an anomaly. If I remember right, Bardet fell from 2nd to 6th in that TT.

 

[Alexandre B.]

He needs a GT without rest days.
Even more interesting is his problem to find a balance between climbing and time trialing. When he showing good form in the mountains he is dreadful in the timetrials. When he is smashing the timetrials he gets dropped on the first serious climb.

This. It seems he can't figure out how to do both well at the same time.

The Tour he podiumed in 2014 seems to be an anomaly but then Froome and Contador had crashed out which helped him onto the podium and Nibali was untouchable. More interestingly Peraud finished ahead of Pinot..........I am starting to think that a change of team would be good for him because whatever advice he is getting is not helping and I don't believe it's purely physical. Maybe some different training methods, possibly diet and working on his TT. Some sort of rethink is required maybe even changing his race calendar and a fresh perspective from another team manager could be good. If this pattern continues for a few more seasons maybe he has to think of doing what other riders have done : target the one week stage races, ride some of the hilly classics and do some stage hunting, KOM or domestique work for better riders. Rui Costa gave up on GC eventually as did Majka and Spilak. Tejay is probably thinking the same. If he doesn't improve then maybe a few more seasons of top five or top 10 finishes will convince him.

Also remember Bardet had a disastrous final TT which allowed Pinot onto the podium. However, I agree that that Tour seems to be an anomaly. If I remember right, Bardet fell from 2nd to 6th in that TT.

Bardet was 5th in GC and fell to 6th because of an ill-timed puncture.

Pinot was 2nd, Péraud was 3rd (13" behind). Both comfortably beat their challenger for the podium: Alejandro Valverde.

 

[staubsauger]

Pinot simply needs to quit FDJ it seems. There are enough teams looking for Giro d'Italia leaders. Most notably Astana! Since the Kazakhs likely send Lopez & Fuglsang as Co-leaders to the Tour de France next year. Apparently Vino is keen to get back Landa though, but he's not out of contract like Pinot.

Arguably FDJ has build a quite solid team around Pinot with Reichenbach, Preidler, Morabito etc. In a Giro d'Italia where his main opponent is Aru rather than the likes of Dumoulin, Froome and Yates he still stands a chance to win the pink jersey. Then there's Landa again though. Maybe even Bardet who wants to win a gt one day. Hmm...

 

[Tonton]

I had expressed my fears about this ITT, but considered that a professional organization would have figured out rest-day management after last year's debacle. It doesn't seem to be the case, although the other FDJ guys did what we thought they could do: Preidler at 1'31", Reichenbach st. as Pozzo 2'20", even Roy and Roux went faster than Thibaut So if it's specific to TP, what should the approach be? Have him ride a lot more on rest-day? I don't know, I don't quite understand, but some people at FDJ are paid to have a clue.