Thor confirms BMC! Better for Cadel?

[jobiwan]

The only other ProTour team that has been so reliant on one rider for results this year has to be Saxo Bank.

BUT, even without Contador, Nuyens still won Ronde and Haedo has won multiple races.
Plus Saxo had to put together a team at the last minute, essentially.

BMC has a large budget, and other than Cadel, the big results haven't really come.
The Thor signing should change that, I think.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

The only other ProTour team that has been so reliant on one rider for results this year has to be Saxo Bank.

BUT, even without Contador, Nuyens still won Ronde and Haedo has won multiple races.
Plus Saxo had to put together a team at the last minute, essentially.

BMC has a large budget, and other than Cadel, the big results haven't really come.
The Thor signing should change that, I think.

yea exactly.
They have been so skewed to one rider. Probably not intentional, but the other riders simply haven't delivered.

I do think they will get better. Evans, Hushovd, TJVG, Blythe, GVA, Gilbert(?), a fit phinney should bring more results. I guess when their big riders perform more the pressure will be off the smaller riders also.

 

[Fetisoff]

The only other ProTour team that has been so reliant on one rider for results this year has to be Saxo Bank.

I wish

10 char

 

[jobiwan]

I wish

10 char

Brutt and Galimzyanov have gotten some wins, but yeah I guess it's been mostly J-Rod this year.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Katusha is another very disappointing team considering budget.

sorry fetisoff

i'm still annoyed by timofey Kritsky. He was pretty talented but had a rough couple years.

 

[Fetisoff]

Katusha is another very disappointing team considering budget.

sorry fetisoff

i'm still annoyed by timofey Kritsky. He was pretty talented but had a rough couple years.

The team's budget isn't as large as some people (including Oleg Tinkov) think. But yeah... Absolutely disappointing in every race that J-Rod doesn't ride... And they're quiet on the transfer market too.

The continental team has been doing fairly good though, with a couple young guys (Novikov for example)

Kritsky did seem to drop off the radars completely as of late. Completely invisible in Portugal. He was supposed to be pretty talented, you're right... And he's Denis Galimzyanov's "Contemporary Sport Idol" according to the katusha website (not sure if it's some sort of an inside joke between the two, or whether it's plain creepy)

Artem Ovechkin is another one that just keeps on disappointing, i though last year's Tour of Austria was his break-through

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

ever since his Tour de l'Avenir crash I have heard little.

 

[kurtinsc]

it isn't like cadel rode every race for BMC. Sure they worked for him in the races he rode, but that isn't even close to half their races.
The other riders got their chances, and didn't deliver.

Let us see... if cadel didn't race TA... GVA might have come top 10.
Romandie.. hmmm.. nope dont think so.
Dauphine... see above.
Tour. You know what I think Hincapie would have won the tour.

BMC without evans At best they probably could have gotten a stage or two at those races, but nothing special. Evans 5-6 races he has ridden is a very small amount of races, yet is the majority of the notable performances from the team. That says it all really.

And again that really wasn't my point.
Cav is at HTC.. but Martin still wins. Goss still wins etc.
Wiggo is at Sky but EBH still wins. etc
Hushovd is at Garmin. Farrar still wins, Martin still wins etc.
Many of the WT teams follow this trend.

Other teams have to work for their leaders in certain races also, but they still deliver in other races.

I think a key factor in all your examples is the type of riders getting wins (especially the "second guy").

Mostly it seems to be sprinters.

And that is a big thing missing from BMC. Even second level sprinters are good for 2-3 wins in lower level races over the course of a season. But having guys like Kristoff and Phinney as your best sprinters... they're more like 4th tier.

But I'm not sure how much having those second tier sprinters actually reflects on the strength of a team compared to similar guys who are classics or climbing riders. Those next level guys get WAY less in terms of wins, but may have more value to a team looking to win stage races with their primary rider.

Having a couple of sprinters to pick up wins at secondary races is a good thing to have... but it reflects more on the win total I think then on the actual strength of the team. I mean... Kenny Van Hummel won 4 races this year... but is he more valueable then a Marcus Burghardt or George Hincappie? I'm not so sure.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

The strong teams have more then 2nd or 3rd Tier riders.
On a whole BMC just lack depth in comparison.

Like I said these teams have performed at the highest level with and without their main rider.

 

[Angliru]

The question (that can never really be answered) is that if Cadel WASN'T there, would BMC have been able to focus on another rider and get some results?

It's hard to just subtract what Cadel did because it's hard to know how BMC would have approached races if they weren't focusing 100% of their team effort on him.

Could BMC have won a stage or two at the tour without Cadel? They have guys like Hincappie and Burghardt who have gotten Tour wins from breaks in the past, but this year they were in pure "support cadel" mode. Same goes for some of the other races Cadel was in.

Cadel is their best rider... by far. And when he's in the race, the entire team is focused on his success, sacrificing all personal ambitions to work for him. That doesn't necessarily mean they wouldn't have any success if he wasn't there and they could ride for themselves.

Not that I think the rest of the team is great... but I simply don't think they're as bad as many want to make them out to be.

Looking at their roster and the events Evans did find success it's hard to imagine anyone coming away with anything more than a stage win. They have no one else that could come close to contending in any major stage race and Evans didn't take part in the hilly classics.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Would Thor be a detriment to a Tour team for Cadel?

I think back to Friere's time with Rabobank a few years ago. Friere contested the sprints and other stages that suited him... but he helped out the GC riders on the other stages, and did a very good job of it. If Thor does that for Cadel, he's probably a better teammate then half of BMC was for Evans this past year.

Evans doesn't need 8 teammates on the flat stages... 3-4 would be fine there. He needs all 8 working for him on mountain and the tougher hilly stages. And I don't think Thor would have a problem with that.

I think Cadel could use more help in the high mtns than Thor could give. And Cadel didn't have many teammates left with him in the group on the big mtn stages this year. Then if they stack the team to help Thor out some then it's at Cadel's expense. That's where I was coming from. But you are prolly right that having Thor would not be much worse for Cadel than this year's team delivered in the way of help in the high mtns.

 

[El Pistolero]

The strong teams have more then 2nd or 3rd Tier riders.
On a whole BMC just lack depth in comparison.

Like I said these teams have performed at the highest level with and without their main rider.

You forgot a certain Paris-Roubaix winner in your example with Garmin. Which would have been a better example than Dan Martin

Garmin wins with Millar, Farrar, Hushovd, Dan Martin, Vansummeren, etc

Of course next year BMC will have more depth than any other team out there except perhaps OPL-QS if they sign some more big names.

 

[hrotha]

Of course BMC doesn't have depth. Two years ago it was a small continental team, not even a good one. You need both money and time to build up a team - they had plenty of money, but haven't had the time yet. This year was a massive improvement from 2010.

Same for Katyusha, actually.

 

[Bennyl]

its a good signing for BMC. However, they need to hire more climbers for Cadel. I know he won with a team of classic riders protecting him exceptionally well to the base of the climbs which obviously worked, but next year the Tour will start with a fresh Contador and the full compliment of favourites that crashed out this year. The challenge will be far greater and Morabito and Moinard do not cut it. BMC need to pick up another couple of quality climbers to strengthen Cadels chances in the mountains. Even though I don't think he'll win the tour next year, the Vuelta will probably be on the agenda of which he will be a great chance.

 

[abbaskip]

Well, I already predicted that they would have the world champion of 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 on their team next year. So far so good.

Na Goss won't go there

 

[rgmerk]

Who?

its a good signing for BMC. However, they need to hire more climbers for Cadel. I know he won with a team of classic riders protecting him exceptionally well to the base of the climbs which obviously worked, but next year the Tour will start with a fresh Contador and the full compliment of favourites that crashed out this year. The challenge will be far greater and Morabito and Moinard do not cut it. BMC need to pick up another couple of quality climbers to strengthen Cadels chances in the mountains. Even though I don't think he'll win the tour next year, the Vuelta will probably be on the agenda of which he will be a great chance.

If you were BMC team management, who would you have on your list of mountain domestiques to hire?

 

[just some guy]

There is can be only 1

Not likely to happen ever but...


But they are signing better guys

Porte maybe, TJVG, plus a few of the guys they have need a bit of a kicking and they will perform better.

Plus Frank and Tschopp who did not ride the Tour

 

[auscyclefan94]

There is can be only 1

Not likely to happen ever but...


But they are signing better guys

Porte maybe, TJVG, plus a few of the guys they have need a bit of a kicking and they will perform better.

Plus Frank and Tschopp who did not ride the Tour

Agreed. I think Moinard peformed quite well but Steve was a bit dissapoiting and santaromita was also decent. With guys like TJVG and possibly POrte who can be good climbing domestiques and tt'ers, plus some of the other climbers like Tschopp and Frank, BMC will have a VERY strong tour squad.

 

[Ferminal]

If they got Gilbert and keep Ballan imagine the team they could field for M-SR.

Gilbert
Evans
Ballan
Hushovd
Hincapie
Van Avermaet
Quinziato
Burghardt

 

[auscyclefan94]

If they got Gilbert and keep Ballan imagine the team they could field for M-SR.

Gilbert
Evans
Ballan
Hushovd
Hincapie
Van Avermaet
Quinziato
Burghardt

Oooh, how awesome would BMC be. even without Ballan I think they could do a 1-2-3 at MSR.


You've gotten me excited Ferminal that I am making a 2012 TDF team

Evans
Porte
TJVG
Hincapie
Burghardt
Quinziato
Frank
Gilbert
Moinard

You still have Hushovd, GVA, tschopp & morabito who could be apart of that tour team and do a great job.

 

[kjetilraknerud]

Hushovd would have done great with the team that BMC brought this year. Burghardt and Hincapie would be enough. He probably won't contest mass sprints at the TdF anyway, so he doesn't need a train. No problem.

 

[dlwssonic]

If they got Gilbert and keep Ballan imagine the team they could field for M-SR.

Gilbert
Evans
Ballan
Hushovd
Hincapie
Van Avermaet
Quinziato
Burghardt

That is one fking hell of a dream team!

 

[kurtinsc]

While Gilbert would be an awesome addition for BMC, I still think they need another sprinter. Not necessarily a superstar, but someone who can contend in second tier races. A step up from Kristoff.

I don't really know who's out of contract who they could go for. I can't imagine they'd get Goss or Cav obviously... but maybe Leigh Howard would be a better choice to develop in the sprints? Maybe some of the second tier Quickstep sprinters will be available after their merger like Steegmans, Chicchi or Ciolek?

It feels like they're very deficient in that area right now, and there's no reason not to use a rider spot or two on a guy who can get a few lesser wins during the season to boost the team's win total.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I lol'd @bmc 1-2-3

 

[El Pistolero]

Of course BMC doesn't have depth. Two years ago it was a small continental team, not even a good one. You need both money and time to build up a team - they had plenty of money, but haven't had the time yet. This year was a massive improvement from 2010.

Same for Katyusha, actually.

Katusha is just bad management. If you're so desperate for a Russian national team and you fail to sign Menchov then you're epic fail.