Time to declare year zero?

[Benotti69]

Is it time that cycling sat down and agreed to declare a cease fire with the doping.

If i was a DS i would be pulling my hair out with the recent positives and thinking we are killing our sport, lively hoods etc...and first i would be looking to be rid of the UCI.

Could it be done? Draw a line and make 4 year bans mandatory. Make races shorter or neutral zones longer do it from within?

There will always be cheaters but if the collective took on a new mentality to it and the omerta adopt an anti doping stance wouldn't it be fantastic to see people like LA, Contador et all shunned form the sport.

If they had half a brain they would realise that it would attract big sponsorship than is the current case of struggling to find it. All the other sports will implode in doping controversies like cycling has, only a matter of time and sponsors will change sports and there cycling will be waiting to cash in.

 

[Roland Rat]

No. Year Zero can only be declared when:

1. The UCI have been disbanded and replaced with an organisation overseeing the commercial side only;

2. Drug testing and enforcing is carried out by a 100% independent body with no financial interest in cycling;

3. Drug tests and the biopassport are sufficiently developed to significantly increase the liklihood of doping (including transfusions) being revealed.

 

[khardung la]

No. Year Zero can only be declared when:

1. The UCI have been disbanded and replaced with an organisation overseeing the commercial side only;

2. Drug testing and enforcing is carried out by a 100% independent body with no financial interest in cycling;

3. Drug tests and the biopassport are sufficiently developed to significantly increase the liklihood of doping (including transfusions) being revealed.

+1

+ 4. They declare a life ban for everyone involved in doping.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Get caught doping?

Bam. Into the ring you go.

 

[Christian]

Time to declare year zero?

... again?!

I remember when Landys was tested positive a paper (was it L'Equipe? Can't remember) had a big announcement of death on their front page that said "Tour de France"

only a matter of time and sponsors will change sports and there cycling will be waiting to cash in.

That seems logical but for some reason the interest in sponsors and the flow of cash seem to have increased in the near past: Katyusha, Sky, Geox, Luxembourg team, Pegasus, Movistar ... sure, some teams had to fold, but I think the flow of cash coming in is much higher than what is lost by Milram having to fold!

 

[Christian]

If i was a DS i would be pulling my hair out with the recent positives and thinking we are killing our sport

Is it just me or does Bjarne seem balder lately?

They declare a life ban for everyone involved in doping.

If my informations are correct the first rider to be honoured with a livelong ban was none other than - wait for it - Kim Andersen

 

[Barrus]

... again?!

I remember when Landys was tested positive a paper (was it L'Equipe? Can't remember) had a big announcement of death on their front page that said "Tour de France"

le roi est mort, vive le roi

 

[Brad Lamb]

No. Year Zero can only be declared when:

1. The UCI have been disbanded and replaced with an organisation overseeing the commercial side only;

2. Drug testing and enforcing is carried out by a 100% independent body with no financial interest in cycling;

3. Drug tests and the biopassport are sufficiently developed to significantly increase the liklihood of doping (including transfusions) being revealed.

+1

4. They declare a life ban for everyone involved in doping.

5. Hein Verbruggen and Pat McQuid to face trial for bringing the sport into disrepute

 

[scribe]

Get caught doping?

Bam. Into the ring you go.

Gérôme!
_______

 

[The Hitch]

Get caught doping?

Bam. Into the ring you go.

This would be good for Vino.

 

[goggalor]

If my informations are correct the first rider to be honoured with a livelong ban was none other than - wait for it - Kim Andersen

Hah! That says it all, really.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I thought 2006 was year zero?

Or was it 1999?

I have to wonder, how much longer will mainstream media even cover the sport? How many parents will encourage their children to consider entering competitive cycling? What business in their right mind would sponsor cycling at this point?

 

[Christian]

le roi est mort, vive le roi

Dead - but not yet buried!

 

[Vonn Brinkman]

I have to wonder, how much longer will mainstream media even cover the sport? How many parents will encourage their children to consider entering competitive cycling? What business in their right mind would sponsor cycling at this point?

They all do it for the same reason that we are still on this forum discussing cycling, instead of talking about other aspects of life.
I guess too many love cycling for the sake of cycling. Me included, I just believe in the beautiful aspects of the sport. Year Zero or Year 20,765, I'll continue to follow this sport, and so will thousands of other people. That will never change.

 

[thehog]

Is it time that cycling sat down and agreed to declare a cease fire with the doping.

If i was a DS i would be pulling my hair out with the recent positives and thinking we are killing our sport, lively hoods etc...and first i would be looking to be rid of the UCI.

Could it be done? Draw a line and make 4 year bans mandatory. Make races shorter or neutral zones longer do it from within?

There will always be cheaters but if the collective took on a new mentality to it and the omerta adopt an anti doping stance wouldn't it be fantastic to see people like LA, Contador et all shunned form the sport.

If they had half a brain they would realise that it would attract big sponsorship than is the current case of struggling to find it. All the other sports will implode in doping controversies like cycling has, only a matter of time and sponsors will change sports and there cycling will be waiting to cash in.

The problem being there is a massive elephant in the room. Until the UCI acknowledge that the greatest athlete of all time is in fact a cheat they'll never get over this dope problem. They just keep avoiding the issue. Allowing the comeback was probably the worst thing they could have ever done. The sport can't go anywhere until this line is drawn.

 

[Barrus]

Dead - but not yet buried!

it was more pointing toward the fact that everytime doping, or cycling is declared death, only to see that neither has decreased in any manner

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

I thought 2006 was year zero?

Or was it 1999?

I have to wonder, how much longer will mainstream media even cover the sport? How many parents will encourage their children to consider entering competitive cycling? What business in their right mind would sponsor cycling at this point?

Exactly! After these forums dragged me from a decade-long haitus, I saw (or perceived, anyway) what I thought was a groundswell of intense support to end doping from the grass-root level and that would carry it,finally, to the UCI et al.

Unfortunately with the upper echelons of the sport still doing their best to cover their own asses, to say nothing of the asses of the big money riders who keep ostensibly getting popped, I may REALLY be done with this sport for good.

I whole-heartedly believe in the social, cultural, and psychological benefits of sport. That being said, I also believe in the destruction, in those same spheres, that cheating can manifest.

Gimme a call in the next decade. Maybe something will have changed, but I seriously doubt it...

 

[kurtinsc]

The problem being there is a massive elephant in the room. Until the UCI acknowledge that the greatest athlete of all time is in fact a cheat they'll never get over this dope problem. They just keep avoiding the issue. Allowing the comeback was probably the worst thing they could have ever done. The sport can't go anywhere until this line is drawn.

Jim Thorpe was a cheat?

Oh, you meant greatest CYCLIST of all time.

Eddy merckx was a cheat?

Maybe the greatest US Cyclist of all time.

Greg Lemond was a cheat?


I'm confused.

 

[lostintime]

The Genie will Never Ever be put back in the bottle. Just observe the madness of Man .. . . . or not.

 

[thehog]

Jim Thorpe was a cheat?

Oh, you meant greatest CYCLIST of all time.

Eddy merckx was a cheat?

Maybe the greatest US Cyclist of all time.

Greg Lemond was a cheat?


I'm confused.

I've grown to like you. And respect what you say.

And I know you know what I mean.

It reminds me of an old friend of mine. He was a dog. Had this sweet lovely girlfriend. Gorgeous girl. As mentioned he was a dog. Every chance he got he cheated on her but would still bring her to dinner parties and nights out as if nothing was wrong. Problem being no one could get to know her. We all knew he was pegging someone else so we couldn't move on and accept her.

Same problem. We just can't get over this dope problem until he goes away completely and the UCI stops the futile attempts at defending him.

 

[kurtinsc]

I've grown to like you. And respect what you say.

And I know you know what I mean.

It reminds me of an old friend of mine. He was a dog. Had this sweet lovely girlfriend. Gorgeous girl. As mentioned he was a dog. Every chance he got he cheated on her but would still bring her to dinner parties and nights out as if nothing was wrong. Problem being no one could get to know her. We all knew he was pegging someone else so we couldn't move on and accept her.

Same problem. We just can't get over this dope problem until he goes away completely and the UCI stops the futile attempts at defending him.

I think you were looking for "most hyped US cyclist".

I don't think it's necessary that he gets caught or convicted... he just needs to go away. Similarly, the steroid talk in baseball has died down a bit. Not because it's cleaner... but because the names that caused it to be brought up the most (Sosa, McGuire, Clemmons, Bonds) have all gone away. None of them were convicted of anything... but their simple presence in the sport drove talk.

I'd agree that the "elephant in the room" is a problem. But I don't think condemning him is necessary. Just moving past him will cause that not to be an issue anymore. Bonds hasn't been condemned by baseball... but the sport has moved on. He still has his records as well... he's just quietly ignored.

And to be honest... that would probably **** Lance off more then a public condemnation.

 

[Magnus]

"The Tour de France is finished and the second edition will, I fear, also be the last. It has died of its success, of the blind passions that it unleashed, the abuse and the dirty suspicions..."

Desgrange after the 1904 TdF.

“Road racing imitates life, the way it would be without the corruptive influence of civilization. When you see an enemy lying on the ground, what’s your first reaction? To help him to his feet. In road racing, you kick him to death.”

Tim Krabbe in The Rider.

I think people need to realize that sport isn't build on the moral rules that has build society. Sport isn't about being nice and working hard. It's about defeating your opponent by any mean possible.

Cycling will survive as long anybody is following and it seems the last century of doping hasn't scared more away than it has attracted.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Exactly! After these forums dragged me from a decade-long haitus...
... I may REALLY be done with this sport for good.

I feel your pain. And I'm an admin here.

I'm not really looking to be done with all of it, and I'd guess you aren't either, but it's become nearly impossible to watch racing when every single time you think there's some sense of hope for integrity to where someone clean actually has a chance, the rug is pulled out underneath you and you're kicked in the gut, or lower.

Where left do we turn to admire the beauty of the sport?

I still ask the same questions as before. Would you want your child to get into competitive cycling today? Would your business sponsor the sport? If you ran a broadcast network, would you cover the sport? Do you think you could even get a sponsor for the broadcast?

At the rate we're going, pretty soon there won't be much money left, crowds will remain, but diminish and be jaded, and the talent pool of young athletes is going to dry up.

 

[Cobblestones]

Year zero? I'm sorry it still feels like year minus five or minus ten at best. A lot has to change still and a lot of people have to go - disappear for good - before year zero can arrive.

 

[Christian]

it was more pointing toward the fact that everytime doping, or cycling is declared death, only to see that neither has decreased in any manner

That's a way of interpreting it - I see it more in a way that the king is declared dead already in the title of the play ("Le roi se meurt"), then again during the play over and over again, however the spectator, alongside some of the characters (the young queen for example) refuse to admit it and continue to hope for his recovery, even though everything (including the palace, the furniture) is deteriorating and falling apart. I see the guard's famous exclaim "Le roi se meurt. Vive le roi!" as a way of saying "the next one will come along", as in the Spanish proverb "A rey muerto, rey puesto" - un de perdu, dix de retrouvés. More generally speaking it is probably an expression of society's refusal or incapability to deal with death though, as the guard mainly echoes what other characters have said before.

I agree with your saying neither doping nor cycling will go down in the near future, I only think it is not 100% compatible with the quote seen in it's original context. Hence me answering with a quote (which is, in this case, also not compatible with the original context) from a book I'm currently reading - "The Stalin Epigram" by Robert Littell. I was trying to say that cycling has hit rock bottom a while ago, yet miraculously continues to survive. So I guess we're not so far apart after all.

God I love that play - I hope I get to see it some time! So far I've only read it.