Today's idiot fatty MLB doper

[davestoller]

Yes, my least favorite MLB player of all time turned positive AGAIN.

Manny Ramirez

Where is Novitzky when you need him. Chasing a true American hero about some bike races that happened in France ten years ago, while the youth of America are being corrupted by watching baseball players in our national pasttime cheat lie and steal, and I dont just mean bases. Ramirez was not a good base stealer.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/ramirez-retires-after-testing-positive/?src=me

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

There's a first - me actually reading an article on baseball.

So, if this is the general attitude of American pro sport (multiple positives, no reaction, multi-million dollar contracts), how can anyone fault LA?

At the same time, how can anyone still buy his story?

If it's this normalized, why do the LA fanboys hate us so for pointing out the obvious?

I think most of the social-media blowback is derived from American fans who don't want their bubble questioned. It's part of how they see the world, and makes up an emotionally intense part of it.

Don't hate them, don't fear them, pity them.

 

[mikeNphilly]

My favorite player..guess he just decided to keep taking after most have quit. When he left my Red Sox and went to the Dodgers, I would always give him a standing ovation at the Phillies stadium(to a chorus of boos of course..hehe), just wanted to thank him for 2004 and 2007.

 

[Andynonomous]

I don't follow your logic.

Where is Novitzky when you need him. Chasing a true American hero about some bike races that happened in France ten years ago, while the youth of America are being corrupted by watching baseball players in our national pasttime cheat lie and steal, and I dont just mean bases. Ramirez was not a good base stealer.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/ramirez-retires-after-testing-positive/?src=me

So, because a CHEAT in a different sport gets caught, and sanctioned, we shouldn't sanction your favorite CHEAT ?

 

[Oldman]

Yes, my least favorite MLB player of all time turned positive AGAIN.

Manny Ramirez

Where is Novitzky when you need him. Chasing a true American hero about some bike races that happened in France ten years ago, while the youth of America are being corrupted by watching baseball players in our national pasttime cheat lie and steal, and I dont just mean bases. Ramirez was not a good base stealer.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/ramirez-retires-after-testing-positive/?src=me

Yes and rather than face any more music he'll retire. Novitsky's initial campaign is what forced the program that helped catch Manny so you are completely correct. And when he's done with the chain of people involved with USPS, USA Cycling there may actually be a respectable program in place here. Then maybe the USADA doesn't have to bust Master's cyclists based on tips they get from their investigation because USA Cycling will actually stand for something other than facilitating Weisel's agenda.

 

[forty four]

Yes, my least favorite MLB player of all time turned positive AGAIN.

Manny Ramirez

Where is Novitzky when you need him. Chasing a true American hero about some bike races that happened in France ten years ago, while the youth of America are being corrupted by watching baseball players in our national pasttime cheat lie and steal, and I dont just mean bases. Ramirez was not a good base stealer.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/ramirez-retires-after-testing-positive/?src=me

umm yes..........

 

[forty four]

There's a first - me actually reading an article on baseball.

So, if this is the general attitude of American pro sport (multiple positives, no reaction, multi-million dollar contracts), how can anyone fault LA?

At the same time, how can anyone still buy his story?

If it's this normalized, why do the LA fanboys hate us so for pointing out the obvious?

I think most of the social-media blowback is derived from American fans who don't want their bubble questioned. It's part of how they see the world, and makes up an emotionally intense part of it.

Don't hate them, don't fear them, pity them.

and also yes........................

 

[flicker]

Yes, my least favorite MLB player of all time turned positive AGAIN.

Manny Ramirez

Where is Novitzky when you need him. Chasing a true American hero about some bike races that happened in France ten years ago, while the youth of America are being corrupted by watching baseball players in our national pasttime cheat lie and steal, and I dont just mean bases. Ramirez was not a good base stealer.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/ramirez-retires-after-testing-positive/?src=me

Wow! The dope testers must be reading my rants in the CLINIC! I mentioned Manny as a prime fueler many times here. I guess I wasn't the only one. I did find him to be an entertaining player with Boston though.

 

[flicker]

Yes, my least favorite MLB player of all time turned positive AGAIN.

Manny Ramirez

Where is Novitzky when you need him. Chasing a true American hero about some bike races that happened in France ten years ago, while the youth of America are being corrupted by watching baseball players in our national pasttime cheat lie and steal, and I dont just mean bases. Ramirez was not a good base stealer.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/ramirez-retires-after-testing-positive/?src=me

Dave I have been watching these juicers for a good 25 years, everybody knows. We just pretend they are clean to feel good about the sport.
As for NFL that doping has been going strong since the mid-70s.
Ice Hockey, I don't know. NBA, probably just happy with their one night stand honeys, Good sinse and some henny and grey goose.

 

[MarkvW]

There's a first - me actually reading an article on baseball.

So, if this is the general attitude of American pro sport (multiple positives, no reaction, multi-million dollar contracts), how can anyone fault LA?

At the same time, how can anyone still buy his story?

If it's this normalized, why do the LA fanboys hate us so for pointing out the obvious?

I think most of the social-media blowback is derived from American fans who don't want their bubble questioned. It's part of how they see the world, and makes up an emotionally intense part of it.

Don't hate them, don't fear them, pity them.

The Lance fanboys and the Lance hateboys are like the aliens in the Star Trek episode "Let that Be Your Last Battlefield" (the one with Frank Gorshin). They both share a deep obsession with Lance, but they express it in different ways.

 

[JRTinMA]

Dave I have been watching these juicers for a good 25 years, everybody knows. We just pretend they are clean to feel good about the sport.
As for NFL that doping has been going strong since the mid-70s.
Ice Hockey, I don't know. NBA, probably just happy with their one night stand honeys, Good sinse and some henny and grey goose.

To the bold, Stereotype much? lol.

 

[Hugh Januss]

To the bold, Stereotype much? lol.

Yeah, that one kinda jumped out at me as well, but it's Flicker, most of the time he doesn't even understand what he is posting.

 

[Granville57]

There's a first - me actually reading an article on baseball.

So, if this is the general attitude of American pro sport (multiple positives, no reaction, multi-million dollar contracts), how can anyone fault LA?

Here's a second. You should read this too. I remember reading this a couple of years ago and it probably sums up the entire baseball "steroids era" and the complicity behind it as well as any article, and much, much better than most.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090507&sportCat=mlb

[Edit: This article was written in 2009. It is a fictitious account, set in the year 2014, where the author imagines just how he will have to explain the history of rampant doping to his young son]

 

[fujisst]

Right on cue: after cycling fan boys get tired of discussing the rampant drug use and busts in their chosen sport, it's time to create a mental diversion and cast a finger at other sports. Hope it makes you folks in this cycling forum feel a little better about yourselves...pathetic, as far as I'm concerned...as you were...

 

[Boeing]

Yes, my least favorite MLB player of all time turned positive AGAIN.

Manny Ramirez

Where is Novitzky when you need him. Chasing a true American hero about some bike races that happened in France ten years ago, while the youth of America are being corrupted by watching baseball players in our national pasttime cheat lie and steal, and I dont just mean bases. Ramirez was not a good base stealer.

http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/08/ramirez-retires-after-testing-positive/?src=me

apples and oranges grasshopper

 

[rhubroma]

Yes and rather than face any more music he'll retire. Novitsky's initial campaign is what forced the program that helped catch Manny so you are completely correct. And when he's done with the chain of people involved with USPS, USA Cycling there may actually be a respectable program in place here. Then maybe the USADA doesn't have to bust Master's cyclists based on tips they get from their investigation because USA Cycling will actually stand for something other than facilitating Weisel's agenda.

Yes and I've been wondering what's going on in this regard. It's been a long time since we've heard any updates.

 

[Merckx index]

Here's a second. You should read this too. I remember reading this a couple of years ago and it probably sums up the entire baseball "steroids era" and the complicity behind it as well as any article, and much, much better than most.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090507&sportCat=mlb

We find our $1,500 seats in the lower boxes near third base. We are sitting in Best Buy's Section 61, which is right between Bob's Discount Furniture's Section 60 and Costco's Section 62. Every section has a sponsor now. The Green Monster is now called "The Pepsi Green Monster" and has a big Pepsi can painted on it. Ted Williams' special seat in right field is now sponsored by Muscle Milk. Even home plate is sponsored by Dunkin' Donuts. Has the logo on it and everything. That's just the way sports work now.

And you’re just fine with that? This article is about how traditions in baseball are being ruined, and you just pass over all of this? May I suggest that steroids, too, are “just the way sports work now.”

Let me suggest a simple causal chain for you, Mr. Simmons. Big league baseball means big league money. Big league money means everything must be sponsored. Big league sponsorship means big league salaries (the kind that go up ten times during a period when the average American‘s wage, at best, is stagnant). Big league salaries mean more motivation to perform. More motivation to perform means performance enhancers.

You want to get rid of steroids? Stop paying $1500 for seats sponsored by Pepsi or whoever. Stop watching games on TV. Where do you think the money for these $100 million contracts comes from? How many players would be tempted to take steroids if they had to be satisfied with about 1% of the money anyone actually needs to lead a fulfilled life?

IOW, you’re part of the problem.

Ever since Boston won the World Series 10 years ago, I always imagined pointing to that 2004 banner and telling my little boy, "That's the team that changed everything."

Not too good in math, either, are we?

He wanted to see the Red Sox win the World Series in his lifetime. He worried about it constantly. So did I. So did every Red Sox fan. We worried about living a full life, then dying, without ever seeing them win.

May I suggest that if you are this obsessed with a freaking artificial pastime, you have already guaranteed that you will not lead a full life?

 

[mikeNphilly]

Not too good in math, either, are we?



May I suggest that if you are this obsessed with a freaking artificial pastime, you have already guaranteed that you will not lead a full life?

The article is set in 2014, so yes 10 years since 2004


You don't understand baseball in Boston with your last comment...thats ok only Red Sox fans understand it.

 

[Granville57]

And you’re just fine with that?

Me? Or the author?

Either way, you've completely misinterpreted this one, Merckx.

It is fictitiously set in the year 2014, and the author is lamenting the shattering of a dream. It's a poignant look at the downfall of the sport that he loved.

The ticket prices and ad placement that he's referring to?
That's an imagined, dark fantasy used only to illustrate a point.

 

[Granville57]

Right on cue: after cycling fan boys get tired of discussing the rampant drug use and busts in their chosen sport, it's time to create a mental diversion and cast a finger at other sports. Hope it makes you folks in this cycling forum feel a little better about yourselves...pathetic, as far as I'm concerned...as you were...

Next time, do us all a favor and just go on a picnic with Cobblestoned instead.
Or...just STFU!

People come on here all the time and criticize the Clinic for not recognizing the issue of doping in other sports (as if that actually ever occurred here). Then when some reasonable issues are raised about another sport, moronic interpretations such as yours are cast about.

Doping is a widespread issue with many, many different factors at its core. Looking at the bigger picture only helps to clarify some of those elements and provide us all with more insight into an issue that this very sub-forum is designed for!

Can't handle the surroundings?
Home and Garden is down the hall, second door on the left...

 

[9000ft]

The Lance fanboys and the Lance hateboys are like the aliens in the Star Trek episode "Let that Be Your Last Battlefield" (the one with Frank Gorshin). They both share a deep obsession with Lance, but they express it in different ways.

That's why I find it so fascinating. The fanboys are just what I'd call general sports fans. I don't think too many people really fawn and coo over LA like the haters rant about. They just want to be entertained by someone who can throw, kick, or hit a ball or ride a bike faster, longer and harder than another person. In other words, they don't think or care too much about PEDs as long as it's a good show and the PED use doesn't manifest itself in something like an arm growing out of a forehead or something like that.

The haters seem to see themselves of the keepers of all that is pure and righteous about the human spirit of competition in general and cycling specifically. That's fine but the problem is 1) as long as there has been sport, especially professional sport, purity and righteousness has never been at the top of the list of what wins and 2) if a rider performs like he is clean IE: doesn't attack, sucks wheels, gets dropped, is judged unexciting, lacks panache etc, that rider is almost always heaped with great scorn and derision by the very same riders who lament the lack of purity and righteousness in cycling.

Personally, I think the haters are far more obsessed than any fanboys.

In the end though it's just a bunch of people killing time on the interwebz and it don't mean sheeit.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That's why I find it so fascinating. The fanboys are just what I'd call general sports fans. I don't think too many people really fawn and coo over LA like the haters rant about. They just want to be entertained by someone who can throw, kick, or hit a ball or ride a bike faster, longer and harder than another person. In other words, they don't think or care too much about PEDs as long as it's a good show and the PED use doesn't manifest itself in something like an arm growing out of a forehead or something like that.

The haters seem to see themselves of the keepers of all that is pure and righteous about the human spirit of competition in general and cycling specifically. That's fine but the problem is 1) as long as there has been sport, especially professional sport, purity and righteousness has never been at the top of the list of what wins and 2) if a rider performs like he is clean IE: doesn't attack, sucks wheels, gets dropped, is judged unexciting, lacks panache etc, that rider is almost always heaped with great scorn and derision by the very same riders who lament the lack of purity and righteousness in cycling.

Personally, I think the haters are far more obsessed than any fanboys.

In the end though it's just a bunch of people killing time on the interwebz and it don't mean sheeit.

Actually - I think it is you that is far more obsessed than either group.

Below is a post you made recently on a different thread where you say you are worried about people who obsess with Lance - and yet here you are discussing Lance in a non Lance thread.

I'll make for a big change in Johans life but I'm more worried about all those prolific posters in the Clinic. Almost their entire life, their very reason for being involves endless threads about this one bicycle racer. What will they do without him? There will be plenty of riders to tear down because they don't meet the expectation for performance, purity, and social piousness, (in fact, I doubt any rider meets this standard except maybe Greg Lemond and Eddie Merkx) but there's only one evil one who has single handedly destroyed cycling.

 

[Oldman]

That's why I find it so fascinating. The fanboys are just what I'd call general sports fans. I don't think too many people really fawn and coo over LA like the haters rant about. They just want to be entertained by someone who can throw, kick, or hit a ball or ride a bike faster, longer and harder than another person. In other words, they don't think or care too much about PEDs as long as it's a good show and the PED use doesn't manifest itself in something like an arm growing out of a forehead or something like that.

The haters seem to see themselves of the keepers of all that is pure and righteous about the human spirit of competition in general and cycling specifically. That's fine but the problem is 1) as long as there has been sport, especially professional sport, purity and righteousness has never been at the top of the list of what wins and 2) if a rider performs like he is clean IE: doesn't attack, sucks wheels, gets dropped, is judged unexciting, lacks panache etc, that rider is almost always heaped with great scorn and derision by the very same riders who lament the lack of purity and righteousness in cycling.Personally, I think the haters are far more obsessed than any fanboys.

In the end though it's just a bunch of people killing time on the interwebz and it don't mean sheeit.

Pretty strong generalization. If it's Lance you're talking about; he established an entirely new level of exploitation, deception and false agrandisement. At least Barry Bonds expects his due from playing baseball and nothing else.
That is a big difference and calling someone with a different opinion a "hater" is the just as convenient as calling someone a "fanboy".
And in the end some of this discussion does have an impact; just ask the Livestrong people smokescreening RR and trying to hack accounts here. They seem to think it means sheeit.

 

[9000ft]

Actually - I think it is you that is far more obsessed than either group.

Below is a post you made recently on a different thread where you say you are worried about people who obsess with Lance - and yet here you are discussing Lance in a non Lance thread.

Naw, Doc, I just drop in once and a while to check up to see how it's all going and to poke fun. You guys are all so serious.

Look at the post counts. Judging by that, there are a lot of guys here who must do little else but post on the CN clinic forum all day (especially ones that have anything to do with Mr. Armstrong). Honestly, I just find it absolutely fascinating.

Anyway, you didn't address the substance of my post which is: Most people(not all for sure), the people who buy tickets, watch on TV, follow the sports and so on, IE: those who directly or indirectly bring money into pro sports, really don't care that much about PEDs. If they did, either the money would dry up, or pro sports would get serious about the issue.

Nor did you address my claim that those who seem to hate doping so much also talk with disdain about anyone who races like they might be clean.

 

[9000ft]

Pretty strong generalization. If it's Lance you're talking about; he established an entirely new level of exploitation, deception and false agrandisement. At least Barry Bonds expects his due from playing baseball and nothing else.
That is a big difference and calling someone with a different opinion a "hater" is the just as convenient as calling someone a "fanboy".
And in the end some of this discussion does have an impact; just ask the Livestrong people smokescreening RR and trying to hack accounts here. They seem to think it means sheeit.

Hater, fanboy? Hey I was just replying to a specific post in which another person used the terms. Terms which by the way are widely used here. Try posting anything that is remotely positive or even neutral of Mr. Armstrong, whether it has merit or not and see what label you'll be plastered with.


PS: Man, with all that evil malice and clever ability to exploit people, I'm surprised LA isn't emperor of the world by now. I'm glad you guys are here to keep him in check. Otherwise we'd all be forced to wear yellow bracelets.