Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[staubsauger]

There's one big difference between 2017 and 2018: Last year Quintana was alone. This year Yates and Chaves can go one after another. That's certainly gonna hurt Dumoulin on this course. Normally Dumoulin gets Popovyched somewhere in the last week. Unless he turns out to have Indurain TdF 94 shape in the mountains.

 

[EroicaStradeBianche]

This is Madness. Quintana and Nibali were on top form last Giro. Maybe not the best Quintana and Nibali ever seen but they are clearly better than Yates Chaves and Carapaz. Lol I remember Quintana and Nibali sprinting up to the Stelvio like madmen to take the descent in first position, anyone here won't do things like that. Here Yates has "attacked" 1 time at 1.5km to go and has won a sprint.

Nonsense, Quintana was getting reeled in and spat out by Reichenbach and dropped by Pozzovivo on climbs in the last week. He was miles from top form, at least after his crash. Compare that to him at the 2016 Vuelta and it is night and day. Same goes for Nibali, there is no comparison between last week of 2016 Giro and 2017.

The Yates, Chaves and Carapaz of today would've ended 5 minutes down to Dumoulin last year. Nibali prepared the Giro with great attention and he said that his values were better than 2016. Quintana was the real Quintana, destroying everyone on the Blockhaus and losing the Giro only for 31 seconds with 70km TT and "easy mountains".
P.s: Quintana won the 2016 Vuelta thanks to Contador's ambush, otherwise you would probably say that he wasn't good also at that Vuelta.

The route is different this year above all, 10-15 km less of TT and Dum would've not won in 2017.
There are some strong teams and Dumoulin is slightly worse. Or do you think that Yates/Chaves could've beaten Dumurain at Oropa? Or giving him minutes on a stage like the one to Ortisei or to Asiago?

the other twin was there last year: 8 minutes down in Milan

 

[hfer07]

Dumo has his mind and body set on the price, keeping it cool & calm. Unless he gets another "dump day" I cannot see him losing this Giro, now that Sky & the Magic Kenyan are in a tough spot to fight for the overall GC...

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

The wattage numbers so far don't say Dumoulin is weaker btw. It's the same as last year. So...

Last year his climbing wasn't great either. He lost over four minutes to a way below par Quintana in the mountains. He's not an elite climber. He just has to hope no-one has the form or tactics to put him out of contention, and that he can gain a ridiculous amount of time in the TT.

That's how he races GTs.

He doesn't have to be an elite climber. He is an elite TT rider who is also a good climber. To do what he did in last year's Giro shows he can climb but at the same time I think the field in this year's Giro is better. Nibali and Quintana could never open up a decent time gap on Dumoulin in the mountains, at least one that would cancel his TT gains. I think this year's race is more unpredictable especially with two Michelton rides high on GC. Aru, Lopez and Froome still have something to prove in this race so it's not going to get any easier in the mountains if they can improve on their first week. Pinot is the one that could benefit if he can hold it together. He can let other stronger teams do the bulk of the chasing. The TT will be critical for him. I expect Michelton to be very tactical in the third week as they should be. their team is looking very good.

TIL Nibali, Quintana and Zakarin are weaker than Yates, Chaves and Carapaz.

Zakarin is a bit overrated. What I meant was that Quintana and Nibali were below their best. When has Michelton had two GC riders in this form ? Then you add Froome, Aru, Lopez, Pinot etc. Last year everyone knew that the winner would come from Dumoulin, Quintana and Nibali even so it was the third option for many that won. This year I think the field is deeper. But of course the Sky issues last year are being repeated this year up to a point. I think this race is more unpredictable. But I suppose last year also had the top five riders not far apart on time. That said, I think Nibali and Quintana in better form have a good shot at the Tour this year even if Froome rides. Probably Nibali's last chance as he has said himself.

 

[cellardoor]

I hate to say it, but I think he's going to have to drop Yates on a mountain stage as I don't see him getting enough time back in the TT to be able to just limit losses.

 

[Blanco]

This is Madness. Quintana and Nibali were on top form last Giro. Maybe not the best Quintana and Nibali ever seen but they are clearly better than Yates Chaves and Carapaz. Lol I remember Quintana and Nibali sprinting up to the Stelvio like madmen to take the descent in first position, anyone here won't do things like that. Here Yates has "attacked" 1 time at 1.5km to go and has won a sprint.

Nonsense, Quintana was getting reeled in and spat out by Reichenbach and dropped by Pozzovivo on climbs in the last week. He was miles from top form, at least after his crash. Compare that to him at the 2016 Vuelta and it is night and day. Same goes for Nibali, there is no comparison between last week of 2016 Giro and 2017.

The Yates, Chaves and Carapaz of today would've ended 5 minutes down to Dumoulin last year. Nibali prepared the Giro with great attention and he said that his values were better than 2016. Quintana was the real Quintana, destroying everyone on the Blockhaus and losing the Giro only for 31 seconds with 70km TT and "easy mountains".
P.s: Quintana won the 2016 Vuelta thanks to Contador's ambush, otherwise you would probably say that he wasn't good also at that Vuelta.

The route is different this year above all, 10-15 km less of TT and Dum would've not won in 2017.
There are some strong teams and Dumoulin is slightly worse. Or do you think that Yates/Chaves could've beaten Dumurain at Oropa? Or giving him minutes on a stage like the one to Ortisei or to Asiago?

the other twin was there last year: 8 minutes down in Milan

This Yates would've win or Oropa. Chaves no.

 

[DFA123]

This is Madness. Quintana and Nibali were on top form last Giro. Maybe not the best Quintana and Nibali ever seen but they are clearly better than Yates Chaves and Carapaz. Lol I remember Quintana and Nibali sprinting up to the Stelvio like madmen to take the descent in first position, anyone here won't do things like that. Here Yates has "attacked" 1 time at 1.5km to go and has won a sprint.

Nonsense, Quintana was getting reeled in and spat out by Reichenbach and dropped by Pozzovivo on climbs in the last week. He was miles from top form, at least after his crash. Compare that to him at the 2016 Vuelta and it is night and day. Same goes for Nibali, there is no comparison between last week of 2016 Giro and 2017.

The Yates, Chaves and Carapaz of today would've ended 5 minutes down to Dumoulin last year. Nibali prepared the Giro with great attention and he said that his values were better than 2016. Quintana was the real Quintana, destroying everyone on the Blockhaus and losing the Giro only for 31 seconds with 70km TT and "easy mountains".
P.s: Quintana won the 2016 Vuelta thanks to Contador's ambush, otherwise you would probably say that he wasn't good also at that Vuelta.

The route is different this year above all, 10-15 km less of TT and Dum would've not won in 2017.
There are some strong teams and Dumoulin is slightly worse. Or do you think that Yates/Chaves could've beaten Dumurain at Oropa? Or giving him minutes on a stage like the one to Ortisei or to Asiago?

the other twin was there last year: 8 minutes down in Milan

This Yates would've win or Oropa. Chaves no.

Was Oropa the stage where 'top-form' Nibali got dropped and had to be towed to the line by Pellizzotti? If so, I think that Yates in current form would have won that stage comfortably. A classic punch in the last 500m - suits him to the ground.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I wonder if that fall from today won't have any negative effects.

Dumoulin said it was NOT a minor fall. It was a harder fall. He says the first five braked way too late and he was number 6th, he was distracted by the guy in front of him going out of his pedal, so missed the corner and crashed hard on one side. Says it doesn't feel bad yet, but it wasnt minor

 

[Jagartrott]

He was too far back in the peloton, that invites accidents like this one. In such descents, his team should take responsibility and hit the front.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

He was too far back in the peloton, that invites accidents like this one. In such descents, his team should take responsibility and hit the front.

Dumoulin said there was 5 guys in front of him and he was the 6th. So I think you are mistaken then

 

[Stella0596]

I was at bit confused, because in the recap (NOS) they said he crashed earlier during the stage, and that he only had a flat tire at the end. That would mean that the footage was that of the flat tire and the crash was of an earlier descent. I don't think this crash will affect him as much as the crashes have affected Froome though.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

No, he seemed relaxed. Although that could be perceived as bluff. We'll find out soon enough because tomorrow is not a stage to hide.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

No, he seemed relaxed. Although that could be perceived as bluff. We'll find out soon enough because tomorrow is not a stage to hide.

I think it's more that he's focused on performing his best than putting so much pressure on himself that not winning automatically means that his season is a failure.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Re:

I wonder if that fall from today won't have any negative effects.

Dumoulin said it was NOT a minor fall. It was a harder fall. He says the first five braked way too late and he was number 6th, he was distracted by the guy in front of him going out of his pedal, so missed the corner and crashed hard on one side. Says it doesn't feel bad yet, but it wasnt minor

Apart from tomorrow (where unless he goes in to full on collapse, it should be hard to lose more than 20 or 30 seconds), he's got a few easy days to come before the serious stuff if he is feeling wobbly.

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

He was too far back in the peloton, that invites accidents like this one. In such descents, his team should take responsibility and hit the front.

Dumoulin said there was 5 guys in front of him and he was the 6th. So I think you are mistaken then

From the images, he seemed to be about midway in the peloton. He was on the outside of the corner, behind a few riders directly in front of him, yes.

 

[Robert5091]

Lucky for TommyD he can still sit on Yates's wheel.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Lucky for TommyD he can still sit on Yates's wheel.

Couldn't quite get there.

Day after crash not too bad.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

Is Froome Yamcha this Giro?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Nah, Froome is this guy

 

[EroicaStradeBianche]

I can't see Dumoulin losing the Giro after today. Froome, Aru, MAL and other pre-race favorites are out of the games. Pozzovivo, Pinot, Bennett will ride for podium. Dumoulin already last year has beaten the superior likes of Quintana and Nibali. The only surprise at this Giro is Simon Yates, he's his only rival left, but I fail to see how Yates could crack Dumoulin in the mountains now that Dumoulin can sit on Yates' wheel since Chaves is out of games.
Dumoulin has an impressive solidity, he's skilled on every terrain, great ruleur, great descender, great climber. He has a superior motor... Barring crisis, falls and strage things we're probably on the way to the first consecutive giro victory since Indurain

 

[DNP-Old]

Re:

Betancur about to start his revenge tour this weekend.

 

[Rollthedice]

Tom is riding like a champion.

 

[Maaaaaaaarten]

Re: Re:

Betancur about to start his revenge tour this weekend.

Too bad Superman will soon go

 

[Red Rick]

Apparently Oomen was also caught behind the crash of Henao. Seems he's slowly getting better as well.