Too Many Crashes = Too Many Riders ??

[Cycle Chic]

Having watched so many crashes recently, I,ve been thinking why this is happening. Surely this isnt normal ? Has there always been this amount of crashes with so many riders being seriously hurt ? Its just a matter of time before another fatality.

I conclude there are just TOO MANY RIDERS IN A TEAM and the peloton is riding so much faster now (reasons we all debate).

I was finding the Tour of Catalunya a bit boring at the beginning of the week - until - half the peloton disappeared - how much more exciting did it get ! 120 riders, some with only 4 riders in the team...way better....and safer. More attacks and less monotonous peloton.

 

[hatcher]

Can't say I've noticed there being more than usual. Just the typical racing in Belgium crashes.

Also not sure I agree that Catalunya has been that exciting since the mass withdrawals. One great stage, one really disappointing stage, and a decent one today.

 

[hrotha]

Selective memory. You remember the recent crashes, and no one has actually done any statistical study on this.

 

[jens_attacks]

the speed is the same as in the 60's.the crashes probably so much as in the 60's.nope not too many riders.
and volta catalunya sucks big time lol

 

[will10]

Obvious muppet is obvious.

 

[roundabout]

Well there seemed to be a quite a lot of injuries in E3. 4 (?) riders with broken bones.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Selective memory. You remember the recent crashes, and no one has actually done any statistical study on this.

Maybe they should.

Have there always been this many riders to a team ? and we hear of the sponsors piling on the pressure for wins...

I am now remembering races for their crashes not the winners.

 

[ElChingon]

Ugggg... another thread on crashes.

The title should be "Too Many Crashes = Too Much on the Line".

If they raced for an ice cream cone three scoops high the crashes would be greatly reduced. If a million bucks or the possibility to earn a million the next year are on the line, well things start to get a bit sketchy and the crashes/risks taken increase, its true for all sports with maybe curling being the exception.

As for stats, its less than when they had less protection, whether it be helmet, radio's, better logistics by the race organizer, better security or heighten security, not to mention IN race doctor/ambulance/medical aid.

Crashes are bad, um kay. We all understand that but its also a major factor in racing, whether it be a pack of 180 or a two man sprint on the track, heck we've seen some bad TT crashes so lets not get crazy about it. If you haven't seen any of those you need to go review racing history, should be a requirement for posting in the race threads.

 

[ElChingon]

At the saying goes in the circles of people who ride.

Its not if you will crash, but when.

 

[Christian]

Its not if you will crash, but when.

+1 ... everyone who gets on a bike to ride professionally has it coming at one point or another

I conclude there are just TOO MANY RIDERS IN A TEAM and the peloton is riding so much faster now (reasons we all debate).

Funny you should say that ... I just read an interesting entry on Hayden Roulston's blog about E3 Harelbeke concerning the same subject:

Far out it was stressful in the bunch today. So many crashes, some just on straight pieces of road.. Idiots is what I call them, some have other names but ill leave it there! These races are always intense though, but some guys really need to learn a few things and we will all feel a whole lot better. The reason for the stress is of course the parcours.. Hard racing and the narrow roads just add to it. Whats causing the most stress is that for the upcoming ‘big week’ I talk about, there is only 8 riders in each team.. Each team has a total of 30 riders to choose from, so you get guys wanting to be selected really taking crazy risks to be noticed.. Its cycling though, but that’s what I feel is the main cause anyway..

http://haydenroulston.co.nz/rolys-blog/

Sounds like he is suggesting the teams are too big in general ... or not enough riders allowed to race?!

 

[DominicDecoco]

Obvious muppet is obvious.

Learnt a new word today?

 

[DominicDecoco]

Obvious muppet is obvious.

Did you learn a new word today?...

 

[Boeing]

At the saying goes in the circles of people who ride.

Its not if you will crash, but when.

and for me the longer I go with out one the bigger the carnage when I do. and for whatever reaqson I cant stay upright on my mountain bike these days

as for the speed being the same in the 60's? whoever said that needs to clarify a bit.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Another potential cause is the lack of selectivity of a lot of courses. Take the first half of last year's Tour, for example... there wasn't any stage that set the GC pecking order up at all. As a result, every single rider who came to the Tour hoping to do a good GC still had that hope until stage 12 at least. There were simply too many riders with something to protect, so you'd have fifteen guys, each with a couple of helpers, all fighting to be up near the front in case there were any splits, and then to compound that you've got the sprint trains trying to move up through the field towards the end too. There's only so much space at the front and too many people fighting for it.

In Catalunya, of course, with the queen stage being annulled, we've been left with a lot of riders on the same time who then have to fight for their positions in the sprint finishes because countback is setting the GC, who are not the type of people who would typically be mixing it in this kind of finish and as a result are perhaps not as capable of dealing with the challenges it throws up.

Another factor is that the difference between the best in the pro péloton and the worst has reduced greatly. Gaps in mountain stages and ITTs are not as big as they used to be. And as a result of that, long escapes work less often, and the péloton stays together longer (and stays as a larger péloton longer). The lack of money for some races meaning maintaining less selective parcours for security reasons or to try and maintain fans in urban centres, the new races having to stay close to urban centres to try to engage the fanbase, and sometimes outright lazy course design, does not help matters either, by ensuring that gaps are small and the nervous state at the front of the péloton remains.

 

[Master50]

I am surprised to hear pros complain about neo-pros like we complain about cat 4 and citizen races and often for the same errors? We see these guys in Cat 1/2 and hold them up as examples of competent riders but as soon as they go pro they are idiots again?

 

[JayKosta]

I am surprised to hear pros complain about neo-pros like we complain about cat 4 and citizen races and often for the same errors? We see these guys in Cat 1/2 and hold them up as examples of competent riders but as soon as they go pro they are idiots again?

-------------
Yep, some probably are idiots as neo-pros. They try too hard to 'show their stuff' and don't fit-in with the 'pro riding style' which causes confusion and accidents.

The accidents (and stupid moves) are a shame - one small problem can severely injury many other riders - e.g. spectators, press motorcycles, road/rider debris, etc.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

 

[Cycle Chic]

Another potential cause is the lack of selectivity of a lot of courses. Take the first half of last year's Tour, for example... there wasn't any stage that set the GC pecking order up at all. As a result, every single rider who came to the Tour hoping to do a good GC still had that hope until stage 12 at least. There were simply too many riders with something to protect, so you'd have fifteen guys, each with a couple of helpers, all fighting to be up near the front in case there were any splits, and then to compound that you've got the sprint trains trying to move up through the field towards the end too. There's only so much space at the front and too many people fighting for it.

In Catalunya, of course, with the queen stage being annulled, we've been left with a lot of riders on the same time who then have to fight for their positions in the sprint finishes because countback is setting the GC, who are not the type of people who would typically be mixing it in this kind of finish and as a result are perhaps not as capable of dealing with the challenges it throws up.

Another factor is that the difference between the best in the pro péloton and the worst has reduced greatly. Gaps in mountain stages and ITTs are not as big as they used to be. And as a result of that, long escapes work less often, and the péloton stays together longer (and stays as a larger péloton longer). The lack of money for some races meaning maintaining less selective parcours for security reasons or to try and maintain fans in urban centres, the new races having to stay close to urban centres to try to engage the fanbase, and sometimes outright lazy course design, does not help matters either, by ensuring that gaps are small and the nervous state at the front of the péloton remains.

Great Post ! and good explanation.

 

[BillytheKid]

No rhyme or reason on crashes in general for me.

A 200-rider-peloton vs. half that number will probably increase the chances of 'em.

I could go a season without a nick and tumble hard three times in another. I do think think very deep section rims like 909s should be outed from all but TTs. Some bike designs also belong only in TTs.

Bike's handle very differently with them. So they're a bad mix in a group. Cross winds make them a sail on the front wheel. Squirrelly.

The comment above about the group staying together for the whole race holds weight with me as well.

 

[CobbleStoner]

wow, surprised that nobody has pointed out what I thought was obvious. the courses are the same as years ago, number of riders in the peloton has not increased that much, the desire to win at all costs is still the same, there will always be great bike handlers and guys that are strong and stupid.
the big difference now is the UCI points system.
now 4th through 20th mean quite a bit to individual riders and they take risks after already going in the red for a leader. it used to be that if you weren't one of the top 5 sprinters when the bunch came to the line, you didn't get in the way, now everybody thinks they can win and other riders rely on getting those stupid points to feed their family (as opposed to the DS recognizing their good work and keeping their contract) it creates all these crashes

 

[Cycle Chic]

the crashes are happening throughout the race not just the bunch sprint.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Another potential cause is the lack of selectivity of a lot of courses.

+1

Between the lack of selectivity and the simple fact there is rarely enough road for all riders, crashes are bound to happen. Some of the racers here can testify the simplest, wide courses can generate more crashes than a narrow, serpentine course.

And THEN there is race organizers giving countless opportunities to keep an event close for the drama. And then there's the old veteran blaming the newbie for taking risks. They did it too. They forget about it.

I'm not indifferent to the crashes, but they happen.

 

[ElChingon]

Well its not the selectivity of the courses but of the riders, the roads can't decide how the racers race. Its up to the racers to create the selectivity. If they all agree upon it as we've seen they can ride at 30 kph no matter the course, as in a protest stage.

 

[Martin318is]

Another thing to keep in the back of the mind is possibly that our interactions with the races have changed over the years and so therefore our perception of the number of crashes in events have changed.

To write that again in English this time - sorry - its probably true that the likelihood of crashes has increased in the last decade, however there have always been crashes at the backs of races and we generally never saw those. We may have heard about them vaguely but there generally weren't multiple camera angles on them like we get now.

For instance, the modern thought about a GT is that you can expect to hit the deck 3 times in the race. I am pretty sure I saw similar comments in the 80s about the risk of crashing.

Note that I am not saying that all the other reasons are wrong and what I am saying is correct! All I am suggesting is that each of the factors that have been listed combine to produce what we see now.

 

[Cycle Chic]

but its the top riders who are involved in all these crashes - and they arent at the back - it,d be interesting to get analysis of how many are out due to injury.

 

[ElChingon]

Nobody wants said statistcs, those involved that is.