Top 10 GT riders 2016

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

My list. Overall it's ranked a little loosely, but this is how I see the GC riders over the last 2-3 years. There are some riders in Tier 3 capable of beating those in Tier 2, while those in Tier 2 are capable of mixing it up against Tier 1, but struggle to get the win.

Tier 1:
Froome
Quintana
Nibali

Tier 2:
Aru
Chaves
Contador
Bardet
Kruijswijk
Mollema
Valverde

Tier 3:

A. Yates
Porte
Pinot
Uran
Martin
Dumoulin

This is pretty much exactly how I see it. Although perhaps would put Nibali at the top of Tier 2 rather than bottom of Tier 1. I think Nibali is closer to the others in Tier 2 than he is to Quintana and Froome.

Landa would have to be in there as well I guess. Probably bottom of Tier 2, but there's a lot of guesswork with him.

Nibali is a funny one, he's consistently proven to be stronger than everyone I listed bar Quintana and Froome TBH, but definitely behind those two. The riders I listed in my second tier are all very equal, and are only separated by current form IMHO. The only possible exceptions are Contador in Spain and Italy (however he's on the downswing IMO), and Mollema if he continues on in his TDF form from this year.

Kruiswijk, Aru and Chaves will probably close the gap as well if they keep improving. Porte needs a few more results like this year's TDF for me to rate him higher.

 

[richo36]

Re: Re:

My list. Overall it's ranked a little loosely, but this is how I see the GC riders over the last 2-3 years. There are some riders in Tier 3 capable of beating those in Tier 2, while those in Tier 2 are capable of mixing it up against Tier 1, but struggle to get the win.

Tier 1:
Froome
Quintana
Nibali

Tier 2:
Aru
Chaves
Contador
Bardet
Kruijswijk
Mollema
Valverde

Tier 3:

A. Yates
Porte
Pinot
Uran
Martin
Dumoulin

This is pretty much exactly how I see it. Although perhaps would put Nibali at the top of Tier 2 rather than bottom of Tier 1. I think Nibali is closer to the others in Tier 2 than he is to Quintana and Froome.

I'm the opposite. I believe nibali is very much on par with Froome and Quintana. The three of them are all the best at a aspect of GT racing. Froome has the best TT, Quintana best in the mountains (3rd week) and nibali is best at race tactics and reading the situation, (only contador matches nibali).

The thing is that due to sky being so overpowered as a team it completely neutralise nibali's skill (and to a degree Quintana), Unless the stage is designed well (cobbles, technical finish, downhill etc) that can minimise sky's ability to control. So if the three were to meet in the TDF all on form, and all have there teams on top form, froome is favourite, however the weaker the teams get the stronger nibali's chances (and Quintana).

As for the rest I agree with list above. really just depends on form of tier 2 and 3 rider to how they perform.

 

[DFA123]

Some good points about riders going well in different races; I think that applies to Nibali as well. In Italy he is a different proposition than he is in France or Spain. You'd back him to challenge Froome and Quintana for the overall in Italy (if the latter two ever ride there again!). In France though, against a peak Froome or Quintana, I think he's challenging for third at best.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

My list. Overall it's ranked a little loosely, but this is how I see the GC riders over the last 2-3 years. There are some riders in Tier 3 capable of beating those in Tier 2, while those in Tier 2 are capable of mixing it up against Tier 1, but struggle to get the win.

Tier 1:
Froome
Quintana
Nibali

Tier 2:
Aru
Chaves
Contador
Bardet
Kruijswijk
Mollema
Valverde

Tier 3:

A. Yates
Porte
Pinot
Uran
Martin
Dumoulin

This is pretty much exactly how I see it. Although perhaps would put Nibali at the top of Tier 2 rather than bottom of Tier 1. I think Nibali is closer to the others in Tier 2 than he is to Quintana and Froome.

I'm the opposite. I believe nibali is very much on par with Froome and Quintana. The three of them are all the best at a aspect of GT racing. Froome has the best TT, Quintana best in the mountains (3rd week) and nibali is best at race tactics and reading the situation, (only contador matches nibali).

The thing is that due to sky being so overpowered as a team it completely neutralise nibali's skill (and to a degree Quintana), Unless the stage is designed well (cobbles, technical finish, downhill etc) that can minimise sky's ability to control. So if the three were to meet in the TDF all on form, and all have there teams on top form, froome is favourite, however the weaker the teams get the stronger nibali's chances (and Quintana).

As for the rest I agree with list above. really just depends on form of tier 2 and 3 rider to how they perform.

in an 'average' GT with 50km + of TT and 4 or 5 MTF, Nibali is losing 5m + to Froome. It is a big ask to take back that with 'tactics'.
As far as i can tell his tactics in GT's involve hoping everyone that is better than him crashes out (Other than 1st Giro win when he was clearly the best). What big tactical move has Nibali ever done in a GT that have resulted in him winning?
He is definitely top of tier 2, but no way in hell is he on any sort of similar level to Froome and Quintana.

 

[dacooley]

you should have very very good legs to play out the card of better tactics (race-reading) well to win grand tour. superior tactic ability can't add you extra 50 watts uphill. that's the reason why it's way more shaky advantage than climbing or time trialing.

 

[barmaher]

Froome
Quintana

fresh air

Porte

fresh air

Nibali
Contador
Chaves
Bardet
Kruijswijk
Mollema
Valverde

 

[Alexandre B.]

Porte ahead of Nibali. That is funny.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Froome
Quintana

fresh air

Porte

fresh air

Nibali
Contador
Chaves
Bardet
Kruijswijk
Mollema
Valverde

I genuinely laughed out loud at this. Nice one.

 

[Singer01]

Re:

Porte ahead of Nibali. That is funny.

Do you think Nibali is a better climber or TT'er than LRP? Genuine question.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

Porte ahead of Nibali. That is funny.

Do you think Nibali is a better climber or TT'er than LRP? Genuine question.

His TT is more consistent (ok, his MTT was surprisingly pretty bad this year) and his climbing level is more consistent too. His GT record speaks for itself.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Porte ahead of Nibali. That is funny.

Do you think Nibali is a better climber or TT'er than LRP? Genuine question.

I think he's better in both, to be honest. Porte may have lost loads of time on Stage 2 but it's not like he was imperious over the rest for the next three weeks.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

Porte ahead of Nibali. That is funny.

Nibali can't challenge Froome or Quintana. But Porte is capable of beating Quintana. Don't agree that Porte > Nibali but it's not a totally irrational statement either

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Porte ahead of Nibali. That is funny.

Nibali can't challenge Froome or Quintana. But Porte is capable of beating Quintana. Don't agree that Porte > Nibali but it's not a totally irrational statement either

It is pretty irrational. There seems to be a bit of a belief that because Porte and Yates dropped Quintana in the Tour that they have the potential to be GT winners. More probable is that Quintana was just way below top form - Porte (even at his best) can get nowhere near a top form Quintana in a three week race.

One of these riders just isn't like the others. It's not hard to spot which one looking at their ages and 3 best GC finishes:

Froome (31) 1st 1st 1st
Quintana (26) 1st 1st 2nd
Porte (31) 5th 7th 19th
Nibali (31) 1st 1st 1st
Contador (33) 1st 1st 1st
Chaves (26) 2nd 3rd 5th
Bardet (25) 2nd 6th 9th
Kruijswijk (29) 4th 7th 8th
Mollema (29) 4th 6th 7th
Valverde (36) 1st 2nd 2nd

 

[huangho]

First two are pretty easy, no way those two can be taken out of those places, third place is a bit more difficult, but I'll go with Nibs because of his victory at Giro, next one must be Chaves, only 3 guys had two podiums this year and Chaves was one of them, so at least he should be there.

Number 5 for me should be Don Alejandro, his podium on Giro and his results on the other 2 GTs should be enough to name him the Ironman of GTs this year.

Contador must be on the list, he can't be in better position because there were no podiums for him this year, but he delivered spectacle as long as he could.

Bardet had the second spot on TDF, but when comparing his result to Valverde and Contador this year, I can't see him better than those guys, his second place on TDF was well earned, but I think the spanish duo were better this year.

Kruijswijk had bad luck, but you'll never know if he had won Giro, pretty impressive to me.

Last two places are hard to tell, for me those are the best this year...

1 Froome
2 Quintana
3 Nibali
4 Chaves
5 Valverde
6 Contador
7 Bardet
8 Kruijswijk

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Porte ahead of Nibali. That is funny.

Nibali can't challenge Froome or Quintana. But Porte is capable of beating Quintana. Don't agree that Porte > Nibali but it's not a totally irrational statement either

Nibali can challenge all of them, and he could beat them, he's crazy enough to do that. Those guys (Froome, Quintana) are afraid of this "breed" (aka Contador, Nibali). Porte is a joke compared to Nibali, there's a light years of difference

 

[AlexNYC]

Porte better than Nibali is just crazy talk. There's more to being a GT rider than just climbing and TTing, believe it or not. All you need to do to settle this argument is to look at their respective placings in GTs; once you do that, it becomes kind of laughable to even consider the question.

For 2016, Nibali has to be third since he did win a GT; however, I think Contador is still better than him as a GT rider. Had Contador ridden the Giro, he would have won rather easily I believe.

 

[Singer01]

Re:

Porte better than Nibali is just crazy talk. There's more to being a GT rider than just climbing and TTing, believe it or not. All you need to do to settle this argument is to look at their respective placings in GTs; once you do that, it becomes kind of laughable to even consider the question.

But this isn't a best GT rider, its best GT rider of 2016. Nobody is saying Porte is historically better, however in this years Tour form Porte is at least as good as Nibali in this years Giro form.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Porte better than Nibali is just crazy talk. There's more to being a GT rider than just climbing and TTing, believe it or not. All you need to do to settle this argument is to look at their respective placings in GTs; once you do that, it becomes kind of laughable to even consider the question.

But this isn't a best GT rider, its best GT rider of 2016. Nobody is saying Porte is historically better, however in this years Tour form Porte is at least as good as Nibali in this years Giro form.

Porte would have lost 20 minutes to Nibali on those last two mountain stages in the Giro. He benefitted massively - more than any other rider - from Sky riding a tempo the whole time in the Tour which no-one could really attack, but which was also not hard enough to drop GC riders. Especially so in the third week when Porte normally collapses - the steady pace suited him to the ground - and he still only just hung on for 5th.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

Porte better than Nibali is just crazy talk. There's more to being a GT rider than just climbing and TTing, believe it or not. All you need to do to settle this argument is to look at their respective placings in GTs; once you do that, it becomes kind of laughable to even consider the question.

But this isn't a best GT rider, its best GT rider of 2016. Nobody is saying Porte is historically better, however in this years Tour form Porte is at least as good as Nibali in this years Giro form.

Porte would have lost 20 minutes to Nibali on those last two mountain stages in the Giro. He benefitted massively - more than any other rider - from Sky riding a tempo the whole time in the Tour which no-one could really attack, but which was also not hard enough to drop GC riders. Especially so in the third week when Porte normally collapses - the steady pace suited him to the ground - and he still only just hung on for 5th.

the way of reasoning is similar to forum members that constantly state froome will be destroyed as soon as he gets isolated and real racing starts.

20 mins is a bit harsh. for the first time porte didn't crack mentally after losing 2 mins at the beginning of the race, continued to fight and finished 5th comfortably. but hell no, he should normally crack the same like quintana should normally fly and wreck the whole field uphill it smells like.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Porte better than Nibali is just crazy talk. There's more to being a GT rider than just climbing and TTing, believe it or not. All you need to do to settle this argument is to look at their respective placings in GTs; once you do that, it becomes kind of laughable to even consider the question.

But this isn't a best GT rider, its best GT rider of 2016. Nobody is saying Porte is historically better, however in this years Tour form Porte is at least as good as Nibali in this years Giro form.

Porte would have lost 20 minutes to Nibali on those last two mountain stages in the Giro. He benefitted massively - more than any other rider - from Sky riding a tempo the whole time in the Tour which no-one could really attack, but which was also not hard enough to drop GC riders. Especially so in the third week when Porte normally collapses - the steady pace suited him to the ground - and he still only just hung on for 5th.

the way of reasoning is similar to forum members that constantly state froome will be destroyed as soon as he gets isolated and real racing starts.

20 mins is a bit harsh. for the first time porte didn't crack mentally after losing 2 mins at the beginning of the race, continued to fight and finished 5th comfortably. but hell no, he should normally crack the same like quintana should normally fly and wreck the whole field uphill it smells like.

You saw Formigal stage?