Top 50 Cyclists - Personal Scoring System - Born 1970 onwards

[Blanco]

Fairly agree her, but would rate the biggest stage races a bit more. I think a Daupine win is more worth than Omloop or GP Bretagne.

In addition you would need to decide what races to include and how to value places behind the winner. I think nothing more than the 7 "classic" top one-week-races should be counted. In addition to maximum 10-15 one day races besides the monuments and the championships. The top three could receive points in somewhat like a 3 - 1,5 - 1 formula.

Suggestion:
Tour: 100 - 50 -30
Giro/Vuelta: 80 - 40- 25
Worlds: 60 - 30 - 20
Monuments: 50 - 25 - 16
One week and selected one day: 30 - 15 - 10
Other one day: 20 - 10 - 6
Stages Tour: 8
Stages Giro and Vuelta: 5

I didn't thought of Omloop and Bretagne when I said biggest one-day races, I meant races like Strade, Amstel, GW, Fleche.., it's debatable of course. Others should worth less.
I would count all races, but would give really small amount for HC and Cat.1 races.
As far as podiums are concerned, I would count only podiums of Monuments and WC/OG, and top 10 of the GT's, but 4th or 5th place wouldn't carry much more points than mountain stage for example.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I think stages are very hard to rank. Winning a Tour de France stage is a big deal. If I were a pro cyclist with no wins, I would rank it like this in terms of what I would want to win the most:

1. Tour de France
2. Giro d'Italia
3. Vuelta a España
4. Worlds
5. Olympics
6. Monument (of course there are preferences here as well)
7. Tour stage
8. WT stage race
9. WT one day race

The Giro and Vuelta stages, I'm not really sure where to rank.

Which is why I initially gave (admittedly too) many points for a GT stage.

However, it's not that simple as stages decrease in value more than anything else once you've already won one. For someone like, say, Alaphilippe, winning Amstel would be worth more than a Tour stage, so for them to make sense in a ranking system, they would probably have to be decreased in value.

Having read some comments here and thought about it, I would probably say 1/8th or 1/10th of the GT points for a stage win.

Something like:

Tour: 60, 30, 20
Giro/Vuelta: 40, 20, 13
Monument/Worlds/Olympics: 30, 15, 10
WT stage race: 20 (10, 7 if you want to add podium points)
WT one day race: 10 (5, 3 if you want to add podium points)
Tour stage: 6
Giro/Vuelta stage: 4

Of course you could distinguish between the WT one day and WT stage races as well, as some are more important than others.

 

[OlavEH]

Something like:

Tour: 60, 30, 20
Giro/Vuelta: 40, 20, 13
Monument/Worlds/Olympics: 30, 15, 10
WT stage race: 20
WT one day race: 10
Tour stage: 6
Giro/Vuelta stage: 4

Too little difference between Giro/Vuelta and monuments. And a WT one day race like Strade, Amstel or GW is certainly worth more than only half a victory in Romandie, Catalunya or Suissse.

 

[pmcg76]

Yeah, that is probably a good suggestion. Flat stages should carry the lowest amount of points, then the hilly ones, and then mountain stages. ITT stages also, longer and harder ones should worth more than shorter flat TT's or prologues.
Although I must tell that Cavendish record, for example, certainly is worth more than one Tour de France victory, maybe even two. I mean 34 stages! No one is even close to that of the current generation. And I'm not a sprinters fan at all, on the contrary... Or Cippo, his 42 Giro stages are, I think, more impressive than Savoldelli's two titles.
Sprinters are too one-dimensional, I agree, but they are the fastest guys out there, and speed is often deciding factor for winning races.
Maybe 1/15 of the overall title for the "sprinters stage" should be fair enough, I don't know, or maybe even a little less.., but no less than 1/20.

I don't find the big number of stages wins as impressive as others and if you look at the Top 10 most stage wins in the last 30 years, all bar Armstrong and Indurain were considered primarily sprinters. Cav, Cipo, Abdu, Kittel, Greipel, Zabel, Steels, Sagan. Only reflects how many opportunities sprinters get compared to others.

Also I don't think there would be many single Tour winners who would swap their win for 34 stage sprint wins so I think that needs to be reflected in value. Most GTs have 20ish stages so to me 1/20th of a GT win is the logical figure.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Then again. Why would Giro 2021 win be rated higher then Vuelta 2021 win? It's not just about the name as the content is important too.

 

[Jspear]

I don't find the big number of stages wins as impressive as others and if you look at the Top 10 most stage wins in the last 30 years, all bar Armstrong and Indurain were considered primarily sprinters. Cav, Cipo, Abdu, Kittel, Greipel, Zabel, Steels, Sagan. Only reflects how many opportunities sprinters get compared to others.

Also I don't think there would be many single Tour winners who would swap their win for 34 stage sprint wins so I think that needs to be reflected in value. Most GTs have 20ish stages so to me 1/20th of a GT win is the logical figure.

I would rather by Cav over riders like Carlos Sastre or paper winner Andy Schleck.

 

[Bonimenier]

Then again. Why would Giro 2021 win be rated higher then Vuelta 2021 win? It's not just about the name as the content is important too.

The Vuelta is rarely a first option for GC riders, more a back-up, unlike the Giro, which is the main target of a season for a lot of GC riders. And obviously also the history of both races play a major role why most fans rate a Giro win a tad higher than a Vuelta win.

You could say that Bernal fulfilled his season goal, whereas Roglic did not.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The Vuelta is rarely a first option for GC riders, more a back-up, unlike the Giro, which is the main target of a season for a lot of GC riders. And obviously also the history of both races play a major role why most fans rate a Giro win a tad higher than a Vuelta win.

Then again you could say that if you are able to win the Tour you likely won't do Giro. Hence if your main target is Giro ...

But i get it that historically speaking a Giro win is considered a bit more prestigious as Vuelta win. Still i feel that it is safe to say that rating Giro 2021 win and Vuelta 2021 win as being in the same league. There is little or no injustice in that.

 

[Bonimenier]

Then again you could say that if you are able to win the Tour you likely won't do Giro. Hence if your main target is Giro ...

But i get it that historically speaking a Giro win is considered a bit more prestigious as Vuelta win. Still i feel that it is safe to say that rating Giro 2021 win and Vuelta 2021 win as being in the same league. There is little or no injustice in that.

Hard to claim that Bernal isn't able to win the Tour as he won it just 2 years back.

I do think the gap between the 2 has decreased in the last 15 years or so. But still, if you look at the winners of the last 10 editions of the Vuelta, only Horner really had it as his Grand Tour goal of the year. The other winners either focused on the Giro or the Tour, or were suspended when the latter 2 took place.

 

[Blanco]

Vuelta level recently is actually at least equal with the Giro, if not higher, and in the last 10-15 years I can't see a Giro win being rated higher than Vuelta win.

 

[pmcg76]

I would rather by Cav over riders like Carlos Sastre or paper winner Andy Schleck.

Maybe Cavs career over Sastre, but I think you would be in a minority if you are just talking stage wins over a Tour win. I really don't see Salvodelli giving up 2 Giros for Cipos 44 stages either. I think it was Greg LeMond who said that winning stages was not that important when going for the overall, whilst for sprinters it is the only reason they are at the Tour.

 

[Bonimenier]

Maybe Cavs career over Sastre, but I think you would be in a minority if you are just talking stage wins over a Tour win. I really don't see Salvodelli giving up 2 Giros for Cipos 44 stages either. I think it was Greg LeMond who said that winning stages was not that important when going for the overall, whilst for sprinters it is the only reason they are at the Tour.

I'm not sure he would be in the minority thinking that. It's not just stages won, it's being equal record holder of most stages won in the Tour. A lot less riders can say that they are equal record holder in stages won than there are riders being a 1 time Tour winner. Cavendish Tour career will be remembered way more than pretty much all the Tour careers of 1 time winners.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Bonimenier

One needs to take into consideration who Roglič currently is. And if as you say Bernal is legit. That only increases the value of Vuelta 2021 win. Both Roglič and Vuelta for sure got elevated a bit in the recent years. And as you said earlier it's history that makes a race. There was a whole lot of history in the making involved in the process.

 

[Jspear]

Maybe Cavs career over Sastre, but I think you would be in a minority if you are just talking stage wins over a Tour win. I really don't see Salvodelli giving up 2 Giros for Cipos 44 stages either. I think it was Greg LeMond who said that winning stages was not that important when going for the overall, whilst for sprinters it is the only reason they are at the Tour.

I would give up Salvodelli’s career for Cipos career.

 

[Blanco]

I would give up Salvodelli’s career for Cipos career.

Any day!

 

[Wyndbrook]

Any day!

Perhaps not his descending reputation though.

 

[Alexandre B.]

I would give up Salvodelli’s career for Cipos career.

Wouldn't you want to see Paris?

That's Cipollini's biggest regret.

 

[roundabout]

Poor guy won 2 Giros and still keeps on getting his name misspelt

 

[SafeBet]

Perhaps not his descending reputation though.

I think Savoldelli once said Cipollini was among the best descenders out there, probably even better than himself.

 

[Nirvana]

Wouldn't you want to see Paris?

That's Cipollini's biggest regret.

I doubt he has any regret, he didn't give a *** about the Tour, only when they snub him in 2001-2002-2003 after he didn't show up in 2000 he seemed to care but was more because of his pride being hurt than caring about the Tour. During his whole career he always came to the Tour because sponsors forced him to go, with half assed shape (that for him was enough to grab a stage or two) and with the primary target of leaving as soon as possible to go to the beach.

 

[Jspear]

Wouldn't you want to see Paris?

That's Cipollini's biggest regret.

I’m sure he saw Paris on one of his shopping trips or vacations.

 

[Nirvana]

I think Savoldelli once said Cipollini was among the best descenders out there, probably even better than himself.

Yeah, when he was commentating races for Bike Channel often mentioned that and also that was the best he has ever had to guide him through the peloton when the race was in hectic moments or needed to go to the front before the start of a climb.

 

[pmcg76]

I would give up Salvodelli’s career for Cipos career.

Except we are not talking about career's, we are trying to calculate the value of sprint stages in GTs, and I just don't see many GT winners giving up their wins for loads of sprint stages, records or not.

 

[Jspear]

Except we are not talking about career's, we are trying to calculate the value of sprint stages in GTs, and I just don't see many GT winners giving up their wins for loads of sprint stages, records or not.

At first we were talking about 1 time GT winners giving up their wins for stage wins like Cav or Kittel. Then someone brought up a 2 time GT winner and said they would take that over Cipo’s wins. I’m saying I would take 42 Giro stage wins over two Giro overall wins.

 

[Blanco]

The Vuelta is rarely a first option for GC riders, more a back-up, unlike the Giro, which is the main target of a season for a lot of GC riders. And obviously also the history of both races play a major role why most fans rate a Giro win a tad higher than a Vuelta win.

You could say that Bernal fulfilled his season goal, whereas Roglic did not.

I could only say that Roglic had a better season than Bernal, and who fulfilled what I think isn't really much important.
Yes, Giro is the first main goal of the season for some GC guys, but they could also ride Vuelta fairly fresh.
And yes, Vuelta is rarely THE main goal of the season, but in recent years Vuelta has stronger field than Giro.
I'd say that in the last 10-15 years they're pretty equal in significance.