Tour de France 2015 Stage 16: Bourg-de-Péage-Gap 201km

[fungusbear]

Re: Re:

The Vuelta is just 4 weeks after the Tour this year, is that normal?

Can't see Froomey doubling up.

Yes, that's normal.

WIth Quintana, Valverde and probably Nibali all going to the vuelta, a lot of Froome's biggest rivals will not be fresh (although Aru and Landa will be raring to go I am sure).

Quintana going too? Interesting.

Unless he is too tired or has changed his racing schedule, him and Valverde were to be joint leaders (like last years Vuelta) for this years edition. If all those riders line up it could be a pretty spectacular race. Fresh Landa/Aru vs Valverde/Quintana/Froome/Nibali

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

If Froome wins this - with yellow jersey pressure early on, negative media, negative actions by stupid fans, a team where his main mountain helpers Porte, Roche, Koenig and Poels have been absent often, and now apparently sickness in the Sky team - that has to be a more deserved/embattled/respected battle than any of the past three Tours I would say.

Ehm Sky has always been the strongest team... even today he had 3 guys, no other team has more than 2!

Poels was pretty spent, Porte was dropped on the final climb, who knows if Thomas won't DNS tomorrow.

Porte was fetching bidons earlier in the stage so obviously the plan wasn't for him to be there on the final climb. He's been recovering from a cold in the last few days. The rest day has come at a good time for him but there's still a big question mark over his form for the Alps.

 

[Miburo]

Re: Re:

Lol at all the hate for Robert, why shouldnt he protect his GC spot? Nibali is his rival now. Froome doesnt give two shits about Nibali anymore, hes not gonna chase after him for 1 second.

+1.

So it was Ok for Nibali to perform a meaningless attack on the descend because we like the guy but it was not OK for Gesink to defend his position after putting together a very consistent Tour performance since forever!

People like the Hitch and Miburo just take their frustration of no GC excitement out on Robert because he dared to ride the last 2km. Some people handle emotions badly.
Like not riding would really affect anything.. then it would just be Valverde instead of Valverde & Gesink, and Nibali would have won 10 seconds more. Yes that's going to make a difference being 7 minutes behind already..

i don't really care that much about nibali and his gc ambitions although the guy is obviously an agressive rider.

Am i supposed to be happy with the fact that a non exciting rider as gesink who fights for a nr.7/8 position rides after nibali who clearly tries to entertain the race and will keep doing that in the next days.

I bet that if i look back at posts from you, i will find the same frustration when a rider is already riding for a top 9/10 placement when there's still big stages to come.

I hope your beloved gesink gets his top 10.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Didn't Gesink attack in the 1st two mountain stages? Or do I have amnesia?

 

[dair]

I can't think of another sport where there is a substantive risk of death but no rules to help avoid or at least mitigate the risk. F1 often gets criticised for being far too ready to implement expulsions and time penalties for causing a collision and reckless moves but it does so because it is very necessary in the sport. Even MMA isn't a rule free environment because it needs rules against moves which would have a strong risk of fatality.

The descent in cycling doesn't have rules the organisers can implement for utterly stupid, foolish and dangerous moves like Barguil pulled today. It wasn't a miscalculation, it was a complete lack of roadcraft and a failure to understand that you can't push it on the inside in a pack of riders without risking a collision, which in a fast descent carries a risk of death.

Having rules on what is a reasonable move in a pack does not stop the excitement of Sagan's charge today, it wouldn't diminish the greatness of every Descent Into Gap. But it would stop utterly reckless riders like Barguil (who does appear to have a track record on "racing incidents") from escaping any penality for such stupidity.

The UCI needs to look at rules for descents. Actions in a pack which risk an accident should get a time penalty and where an actual accident is caused, there is a damn good case for expulsion.

 

[hrotha]

The UCI needs to do ***-all. This kind of thing is really a freak occurrence - no need to overreact.

 

[TMP402]

Here is the video showing TJVG touch Barguil

https://vid.me/Zp3H

But as others have said, he then tried to cut people up on corners later on, so TJVG is not sufficient to explain Barguil's poor descending into corners.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

The UCI needs to do ***-all. This kind of thing is really a freak occurrence - no need to overreact.

Crash pads on poles and any walls on descents would a step in the right direction, hell RCS already does that.

 

[Miburo]

Re:

Didn't Gesink attack in the 1st two mountain stages? Or do I have amnesia?

Shut up if you don't have any usefull thing to add

Yea a dumb attack when the movistar/sky train goes off. You're right, he sometimes attacks i was wrong about that, and usually at the worst times.

No need to get so mad DT.

 

[classicomano]

Re:

Actually, it's more because of the opinion that racing for ultimately meaningless GC positions is largely what's killing the spectacle. Gesink's actions today were just a reminder.

You don't need to agree, of course, but don't misrepresent the opposing opinion either.

So what was he suppose to do then, lets Nibali get free time on him? Or what? I dont get this logic at all.

 

[classicomano]

Re: Re:

Lol at all the hate for Robert, why shouldnt he protect his GC spot? Nibali is his rival now. Froome doesnt give two shits about Nibali anymore, hes not gonna chase after him for 1 second.

+1.

So it was Ok for Nibali to perform a meaningless attack on the descend because we like the guy but it was not OK for Gesink to defend his position after putting together a very consistent Tour performance since forever!

People like the Hitch and Miburo just take their frustration of no GC excitement out on Robert because he dared to ride the last 2km. Some people handle emotions badly.
Like not riding would really affect anything.. then it would just be Valverde instead of Valverde & Gesink, and Nibali would have won 10 seconds more. Yes that's going to make a difference being 7 minutes behind already..

i don't really care that much about nibali and his gc ambitions although the guy is obviously an agressive rider.

Am i supposed to be happy with the fact that a non exciting rider as gesink who fights for a nr.7/8 position rides after nibali who clearly tries to entertain the race and will keep doing that in the next days.

Hes entertaining the race by trying to go up in the GC, something Gesink is trying to counter because hes going after his spot. Why is that pathetic?

 

[matter]

Re: Re:

I don't see how the race would've been any different if Gesink was not in the race. The criticism seems pretty hyperbolic. Am I missing something?

Yeah, you are missing half the members here are insane.

Apparantly emotions are running high and some people don't see the forest from the trees anymore, even though they could be right in other respects.

 

[bassano]

Re: Re:

Unless he is too tired or has changed his racing schedule, him and Valverde were to be joint leaders (like last years Vuelta) for this years edition. If all those riders line up it could be a pretty spectacular race. Fresh Landa/Aru vs Valverde/Quintana/Froome/Nibali

I do not thing any of them will ride Vuelta, maybe Valverde as part of the preparation for worlds, Froome no way, Quintana small chance, as Nibali especially with Landa, Aru there

 

[knightmal]

Re:

I can't decide what I like more, that a rider I like won a stage, or that Sagan lost again.

I originally put "finally", but I like both Štybar and Purito. I also kind of have a soft spot for the Gorilla because of the unnecessary abuse he took in the Cav rivalry days.

I can never understand the mind of a professional who will guarantee their own loss to ensure they aren't beaten by Sagan.

I can understand not working at some stages, but when the other guy went up the road hanging around on Sagan's wheel was weak as dog water.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I don't understand why people are freaking out over Gesink looking out for his own best interests.

 

[cala]

Thor Hushovd (who's in France now btw) said on Norwegian Tv that he thought Sagan made a mistake by not trying to go after Plaza or at least push a bit harder so that he perhaps only would have been 30 seconds behind before the descent. He obviously had some more power in his legs. I agree. Thor should know. He won that stage 4 years ago.
You can't always blame other riders. Sagan should try to do something himself if he wants to win.

Edvald got his unfortunate stomach problems, so he couldn't follow in the last climb.

 

[matter]

Re:

I don't understand why people are freaking out over Gesink looking out for his own best interests.

It's mind boggling to see so many posters who collectively share so much cycling knowledge react as such

 

[dacooley]

that's because some boys has a little respect even to elite gc riders who bobby gesink obviously is imo.. the guy got over so many obstacles on the way to coming to his best, but one's annoyance from no gc competition on the stage is way more important, no wonder. that looks like a caricature attitude to cycling, not a fan one.

 

[staubsauger]

Re:

Here is the video showing TJVG touch Barguil

https://vid.me/Zp3H

But as others have said, he then tried to cut people up on corners later on, so TJVG is not sufficient to explain Barguil's poor descending into corners.

If he was out of concentration for a second and thus missed the cusp,it definitely some influence.

Of course it was risky behavior by Barguil. But one doesn't sheer out of line without a look behind like Teejay.

 

[Volderke]

Re:

Here is the video showing TJVG touch Barguil

https://vid.me/Zp3H

But as others have said, he then tried to cut people up on corners later on, so TJVG is not sufficient to explain Barguil's poor descending into corners.

I see a lot of harsh words for Barguil, but when you are pushed at 60-70k/hr just before a curve to the inside, like Barguil was touched by Van Garderen, there is simply not much you can do to get through that curve in a good line.

 

[matter]

Re:

Actually, it's more because of the opinion that racing for ultimately meaningless GC positions is largely what's killing the spectacle. Gesink's actions today were just a reminder.

You don't need to agree, of course, but don't misrepresent the opposing opinion either.

I don't understand what's meaningless about it?
You do realise this is what they train their whole lives for?

Let's try empathy for a second.
If I were him and I were a 100% rational being what would I do? and If I were an emotional being for just 10% would I do the same? Can you tell? Apart from being in the middle of a maddening race?
Personally, I wouldn't care about anything else but my own place in the race.

Besides that, his actions make no difference for the podium positions in which most of these posters are solely interested in. These posts actually make even less sense the more I think about them.

 

[Rolling Rouleur]

Re: Re:

Crash pads on poles and any walls on descents would a step in the right direction, hell RCS already does that.

At least beton poles on exposed curves of high speed descents. Nobody would allow uncovered beton pole on formel 1 track.

 

[b.broadhurst]

Froome confirms that Porte is ill too.

Konig I guess is just cooked from the Giro. Roche has been disappointing, Poels is looking stronger and G is a monster.

Froome will be fine in the Alps.

 

[WildspokeJoe]

Re: Re:

Here is the video showing TJVG touch Barguil

https://vid.me/Zp3H

But as others have said, he then tried to cut people up on corners later on, so TJVG is not sufficient to explain Barguil's poor descending into corners.

I see a lot of harsh words for Barguil, but when you are pushed at 60-70k/hr just before a curve to the inside, like Barguil was touched by Van Garderen, there is simply not much you can do to get through that curve in a good line.

Quintana said it best. Barguil was trying to move up when he should have just been descending. Barguil the anti-Pinot.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

I can't decide what I like more, that a rider I like won a stage, or that Sagan lost again.

I originally put "finally", but I like both Štybar and Purito. I also kind of have a soft spot for the Gorilla because of the unnecessary abuse he took in the Cav rivalry days.

I can never understand the mind of a professional who will guarantee their own loss to ensure they aren't beaten by Sagan.

I can understand not working at some stages, but when the other guy went up the road hanging around on Sagan's wheel was weak as dog water.

Nobody in that break was going to beat Sagan in a sprint. Once Plaza was gone, if the others chased him and Sagan went with them, they'd lose. Their hope was that Sagan would tire himself out chasing and they could profit with a late attack. Sagan, for his part, wanted a bit of help on the climb to keep him close enough to catch Rubinho on the descent, so may have held a bit back.

It wasn't a case of guaranteeing their own loss to ensure they aren't beaten by Sagan, it was more that helping chase down was a form of swapping one type of guaranteed loss for another.

However, if any riders did actively ride solely for the aim of making Sagan lose, that's an admirable goal in and of itself.