Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 6: Tarbes - Cauterets-Cambasque, 144.9k

[Salvarani]

I'm really wondering how Mas and Carapaz would've fared in these two mountain days.

I can comfortably tell you, that they would have had no chance at all to follow these guys.

 

[memyselfandI]

Nope...a whole lotta nope from me. I'd rather listen to someone with explosive diarrhea, playing the trumpet with their sphincter, than listen to Bruyneel talk about anything. Thanks tho.

Your opinion was duly noted.

 

[Skalman]

I'm really wondering how Mas and Carapaz would've fared in these two mountain days.

Hindley Level if on good form

 

[Cookster15]

Wow, what a difference a day makes. This is why I love Grand Tours. Every day is a new story and we never know how the riders are recovering. The Tour is alive and well! Who needs the Giro? So far this is a great Tour!

Vingegaard and JV will attack again on stage 9 to Puy de Dôm. That climb seems to better suit Vingegaard. But maybe Pogacar just had an off day yesterday? He certainly looked comfortable following on the Tourmalet.

Special mention to the Yellow Jersey: Jai Hindley can hold his head high. Maybe he suffered for his effort yesterday but he still finished best of the rest of GC contenders behind the big two. And I think he might improve further by the Alpes. I think he should be fine on Puy de Dôm.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I'm really wondering how Mas and Carapaz would've fared in these two mountain days.

Bravely fighting for #1 spot among humans.

 

[Cookster15]

I'm really wondering how Mas and Carapaz would've fared in these two mountain days.

If they were in good form I think they would have finished with Hindley today. They are not on the same planet as the big two.

 

[Jagartrott]

Vingegaard and JV will attack again on stage 9 to Puy de Dôm. That climb seems to better suit Vingegaard. But maybe Pogacar just had an off day yesterday? He certainly looked comfortable following on the Tourmalet.

I don't know. I could imagine they would race more conservatively for a while, because it must have been a bit of shock to Vignegaard that he cracked on the last ascent today. Unless it was purely a hunger knock of sorts?

 

[Mayomaniac]

I don't know. I could imagine they would race more conservatively for a while, because it must have been a bit of shock to Vignegaard that he cracked on the last ascent today. Unless it was purely a hunger knock of sorts?

My dad alreay mention that Pogacar looked better near the top of the Tourmalet and to me it looked pretty obvious on the final climb.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Nah, that was stage 5.

This is the stage where you get your work night sleep catch up.

Unless you want to take me to the clinic.

Well, I was definitely wrong here.

Sounds like an amazing stage and the race is well and truly alive!

 

[Blanco]

i'm still a bit baffled by Jumbo. I get they want to make the stage hard as possible & finish off Pogacar, but what was the plan for the final climb? Did they honestly think Vingegaard could ride Pogacar off his wheel and drop him?

Yep.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Well, I was definitely wrong here.

Sounds like an amazing stage and the race is well and truly alive!

No worries, Pog and Vingo may find a way to snuff each other out. So there is definitely hope for Hindley yet, or whomever you may be pulling for.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

It's no secret that Pogi and MvdP are close friends, way closer than both of them are with WVA, so of course they are gonna talk more with each other. That said, unless Wout openly said they were mocking him or something like that, i don't know how you can consider that bullying. Pog raced hard, tried to drop them both 'cause he knew he had close to 0 chances in a flat sprint. He even tried a desperate move by launching the sprint from really far away, which took away MvdP's best weapon, his acceleration from slow speed, so in fact he helped Wout there. So yeah, while they surely did not let him win, it's not like they raced as two teammates to make him lose either.

Again, if you can find it, listen to Wout's response when asked about that break. He made a pointed reference to the conversation between Pog and Mathieu, and his exclusion from that, and he seemed bothered by it. Of course we cannot know what they talked about, but it seemed to include tactical talk as well as joking, etc. Wout wasn't privy to much of any of it, and they certainly made no effort to include him. Make of that what you will.

 

[proffate]

Apparently Jonas and Teddy set the fastest time up the Tourmalet in history by well over two minutes while Hindley lost literally that much by the ascent. It's safe to say that those two went pretty much full gas on the second to last climb and Jonas paid for it. I don't think anyone is disputing that. It's easier to set a better time on Cauterets (which isn't a difficult climb at all) when you were puttering along up the Tourmalet slightly quicker than Cavendish (sarcasm implied if not detected).

sure, but it's worth noting this as pundits on this forum are constantly trying to tease apart the exact conditions where Vinge is better than Pog or vice versa. Score one for Pog in the "resistance" column?

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Apparently Jonas and Teddy set the fastest time up the Tourmalet in history by well over two minutes while Hindley lost literally that much by the ascent. It's safe to say that those two went pretty much full gas on the second to last climb and Jonas paid for it. I don't think anyone is disputing that. It's easier to set a better time on Cauterets (which isn't a difficult climb at all) when you were puttering along up the Tourmalet slightly quicker than Cavendish (sarcasm implied if not detected).

Not asking because I don't believe you, asking because I want to see the source. Can you provide a link?

 

[proffate]

One final thought: MvDP in the break (lolz)...uh...okay...at one point, he flicked his elbow and looked back at Wout on the descent to help him pull...like he hasn't been a complete a$$ to Wout all year. Wout initially shook his head, but did pull through...with little effort...I think the days of any pretense of congeniality between them is gone, based mostly on how Mathieu has treated Wout this year. There used to be some friendish things, but when Pog and Mathieu did their combined thing in E3, I think it really hurt Wout, and I think Pog is continuing to needle wherever he can. It actually smacks of bullying...it's one reason I've lost some respect for both Mathieu and Pog.

You cannot be serious. You know they are competitors, right? Not first grade classmates.

 

[Carols]

It's always easy to say in hindsight this was stupid from JV but after yesterday it was more than reasonable to try to finish off Pogacar here. It would have been stupid if they didn't. If your opponent seems vulnerable you have to seize the opportunity.

Definitely. But all these wanna be DS' know better LOL!

 

[Carols]

Haha, Lance is fuming on The Move over TJV's tactics today. Vingegaard leads over Pog, he shouldn't pull at all according to Lance. Johan tries to justify the tactics in some regards but Lance will have noone of it.

Yeah, Lance is such an expert they took away all his wins.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

Not asking because I don't believe you, asking because I want to see the source. Can you provide a link?

Subiendo como una moto and Lanterne rouge both reports the climbimng time. The second also makes W/kg estimates

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Definitely. But all these wanna be DS' know better LOL!

I said prior to the stage that it would be the wrong move for Jumbo to go all guns blazing on Tourmalet… there were definitely a lot of people claiming that Jumbo should go for the kill today, but this scenario was not unforeseeable. I’m happy they went for it anyway, because it a) made for a great stage and b) helped set up Pogacar to gain back time and turn the GC battle back into overdrive, but it absolutely was a big mistake and it isn’t hindsight bias to say so (except for anyone saying the opposite this morning, of course).

Jumbo really don't need to take any risks. If Vingegaard is still clearly better than Pogacar tomorrow he can take another ~30 seconds on Cambasque alone and that would also just about seal it, and if he isn't they're making themselves more vulnerable than necessary.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Today's not the stage I'd have been worries on for him. It's 14 and 17. If they're raced at a strong pace from early, guys like Cav, Bauhaus, Jakobsen will be in trouble.

Today isn't as bad as the descent off Tourmalet is quite long and they really shouldn't have been dropped until Aspin which was 60k into the stage. Going to be a lot more difficult if they're dropped less than 30k into the stage and have a ton of climbing still to do.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they tried getting in the break to be a little ahead for those stages but we shall see.

I don't know. I could imagine they would race more conservatively for a while, because it must have been a bit of shock to Vignegaard that he cracked on the last ascent today. Unless it was purely a hunger knock of sorts?

Vinge looked surprised when Pog was there and when he got attacked. It has to be a blow to his and the team’s confidence, if it happens again I can see Vinge and the team trying to mail it to negate the bonus seconds. If their levels stay similar and UAE starts sending up riders in the break, the Tour will flip on it’s head.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Again, if you can find it, listen to Wout's response when asked about that break. He made a pointed reference to the conversation between Pog and Mathieu, and his exclusion from that, and he seemed bothered by it. Of course we cannot know what they talked about, but it seemed to include tactical talk as well as joking, etc. Wout wasn't privy to much of any of it, and they certainly made no effort to include him. Make of that what you will.

Why would you talk to someone you’re not friends or as close with when a better friend is there? Why would they talk tactics to WVA? Maybe they thought he was the strongest. Maybe they were having inside jokes. Why didn’t WVA initiate anything?

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Why would you talk to someone you’re not friends or as close with when a better friend is there? Why would they talk tactics to WVA? Maybe they thought he was the strongest. Maybe they were having inside jokes. Why didn’t WVA initiate anything?

This is my point. Why would you talk tactics with Pog?

Look, I get it. Mathieu is a f**king saint, and Pog is just a slap happy kind of fellow. I think they're both a$$holes. Deal with it.

 

[Divergence]

The funniest of all has to be the JV director who was first lying to Jonas that Tadej was not looking good on Tourmalet and then was trying to tell him how close Pog is whilst Pog was stomping him. Pure gold from the tacticians at JV.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Subiendo como una moto and Lanterne rouge both reports the climbimng time. The second also makes W/kg estimates

Thank you!

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

You cannot be serious. You know they are competitors, right? Not first grade classmates.

Then why were Pog and Mathieu acting like first grade school boys? Thanks for agreeing with me!! Cheers.

And yeah, Bro type, competitive a$$holes are not super endearing to me. They can take their alpha bulls**t and go try to hook up with some babes at the EDM bar, or whatever.