Tour de France Tour de France 2024 route rumours and announcements

[houtdffan]

You mistake my meaning.

My argument is that you don't have to worry about it becoming too hard because hte peloton will self correct. Not that we should afraid to make it so hard a few more uncontested breakaway wins.

It's also not an argument for backloading the race or anything. I still wanna see these massive stages, but in moderation, and in the right position in a race.

Stelvio 2020 was legendary and it wasn't because it was the biggest stars of the century duking it out there.

1 or 2 a race is all that is needed. We don't need Goveneou to go full 2006 or 2011 Zomengan

 

[Escarabajo]

You mistake my meaning.

My argument is that you don't have to worry about it becoming too hard because hte peloton will self correct. Not that we should afraid to make it so hard a few more uncontested breakaway wins.

It's also not an argument for backloading the race or anything. I still wanna see these massive stages, but in moderation, and in the right position in a race.

Stelvio 2020 was legendary and it wasn't because it was the biggest stars of the century duking it out there.

Ok. Stelvio was good. I don't say it was massive, but the climb by itself is always massive IMHO. +6 hours marathons is what I want to stay away from. Not sure if you are Ok with those as well.

The problem is wherever they put those stages it has a tendency to block riders before that.

Last point, I love attrition but it has a tendency to kill spectacle and is not so popular among fans. So I have come to terms with new changes in cycling.

 

[OlavEH]

You can't just have a 100% televised 230 km flat stage because it is just a killer. If the do a multi mountain stage this long riders just go to a parade following the big team's trains. Everything evolves and cycling is not the exception.

Well, there is a middle ground between 120 and 230 km. Especially for the Giro, since Italy has an almost unlimited potential for tough stages, should have at least one or two big mountain stages of at least close to 200k.

 

[Escarabajo]

Well, there is a middle ground between 120 and 230 km. Especially for the Giro, since Italy has an almost unlimited potential for tough stages, should have at least one or two big mountain stages of at least close to 200k.

Giro is killing me these last 2 years. Just horrible. Weather does not help but they should start changing the designs a little bit.

It doesn't matter if we give the Giro route a 8+ in the score if the riders and weather do not cooperate. And the way riders ride is influenced by the design as well.

 

[Valv.Piti]

*** it, just move the Giro a week or two. I legitimately think that will cure at least some of the problems we have seen the last 3 years whether it being cold/rain or straight up snow and freezing temperatures 'forcing' (yeah..) the puppet to cancel and shorten stages.

 

[zlev11]

it feels like a sin to say this but I think the TdF found the right formula of just having ~4hr stages everyday that can be raced intensely from the start. it seems like the riders are not afraid to go all out at that length of stage. i still would like at least one epic 6+ hour mountain stage though.

 

[Gigs_98]

it feels like a sin to say this but I think the TdF found the right formula of just having ~4hr stages everyday that can be raced intensely from the start. it seems like the riders are not afraid to go all out at that length of stage. i still would like at least one epic 6+ hour mountain stage though.

Let's wait for whether the Tour has truly found the secret formula until one of Pog and Vingegaard doesn't show up again. It would have been incredibly hard to make a route on which the last two Tours would not have been good.

 

[zlev11]

Let's wait for whether the Tour has truly found the secret formula until one of Pog and Vingegaard doesn't show up again. It would have been incredibly hard to make a route on which the last two Tours would not have been good.

very good point

 

[Ulle97]

I think the Tour organisers deserve credit for adding more variety to the race in recent years.
For an eternity, the routes were so formulaic. The GC would be decided by 2 stages in the Alps, 2 stages in the Pyrenees and 2 ITTs.

The organisers have explored the Vosges and Jura a lot more now- Markstein, PdBF, Grand Colombier. The Massif Central has seen the Puy Mary and Puy de Dome used as MTFs. There are more GC relevant stages and it's more exciting for the viewers.

 

[houtdffan]

One of the most remembered tours only had 9 out of 23 stages having any GC relevance. There were only 5 high mountain stages, a prologue, 2 very long ITT and a long TTT. One of the mountain stages was known as a Peschuex Special today

Any guesses as to this tour?

 

[rghysens]

One of the most remembered tours only had 9 out of 23 stages having any GC relevance. There were only 5 high mountain stages, a prologue, 2 very long ITT and a long TTT. One of the mountain stages was known as a Peschuex Special today

Any guesses as to this tour?

I think a lot of tours fit this description.

 

[OlavEH]

Let's wait for whether the Tour has truly found the secret formula until one of Pog and Vingegaard doesn't show up again. It would have been incredibly hard to make a route on which the last two Tours would not have been good.

Spot-on. I think the Peyragudes stage last year illustrates the difference quite well. Normally a 130 km mountain stage with a finish at the steep ramp on the airstrip in Peyragudes would mean a small group until the last few kms and then an explosion at the last ramp. Gaps would rather be within a minute for typically 5-10 riders. Last year it was over 2 mins to number 4 and threa and a half minute to number 10. I don't think we would see these gaps without both of Pog and Vingegaard.

 

[Red Rick]

Spot-on. I think the Peyragudes stage last year illustrates the difference quite well. Normally a 130 km mountain stage with a finish at the steep ramp on the airstrip in Peyragudes would mean a small group until the last few kms and then an explosion at the last ramp. Gaps would rather be within a minute for typically 5-10 riders. Last year it was over 2 mins to number 4 and threa and a half minute to number 10. I don't think we would see these gaps without both of Pog and Vingegaard.

Pogacar and Vingegaard only go nuts when they sense weakness or when they are forced into making crazy attacks. When they're close in GC and not really sure where they're at it's a glorified Hindley/Carapaz handholding competition. Pogacar attacked on 5 stages between stage 5 and 15, but 3 of them were only 1km, and the Cambasque attack was objectively too late given the amount of weakness Vingegaard was showing at that point. Only the Joux Plane attacke had any real risk to it.

Also I would argue some of those stages referenced in 2022 weren't that good. Peyragudes had Pogacar launch one attack before the altiport, which was on top of Val Louron and was easil countered. All the damage was done by McNulty. Alpe d'Huez 2022 was a lame duck stage.

The reason Jumbo create so much carnage in the Tour is because they simply believe Vingegaard has better fatigue resistance and recovery over 3 weeks.

 

[Red Rick]

Let's wait for whether the Tour has truly found the secret formula until one of Pog and Vingegaard doesn't show up again. It would have been incredibly hard to make a route on which the last two Tours would not have been good.

The majority of Tours don't have a Granon like stage in the first 2 weeks. Maybe in 2021 they'd play that game on the Ventoux stage, but then the problem is the penultimate Ventoux climb was the meme side. Maybe the Tignes stage has it going on on Col du Pre.

 

[tobydawq]

Pogacar and Vingegaard only go nuts when they sense weakness or when they are forced into making crazy attacks. When they're close in GC and not really sure where they're at it's a glorified Hindley/Carapaz handholding competition. Pogacar attacked on 5 stages between stage 5 and 15, but 3 of them were only 1km, and the Cambasque attack was objectively too late given the amount of weakness Vingegaard was showing at that point. Only the Joux Plane attacke had any real risk to it.

Also I would argue some of those stages referenced in 2022 weren't that good. Peyragudes had Pogacar launch one attack before the altiport, which was on top of Val Louron and was easil countered. All the damage was done by McNulty. Alpe d'Huez 2022 was a lame duck stage.

The reason Jumbo create so much carnage in the Tour is because they simply believe Vingegaard has better fatigue resistance and recovery over 3 weeks.

Alpe d'Huez was not good, but the Pyrenean stages were great, lol. Handholding competition, my ass.

 

[Red Rick]

it feels like a sin to say this but I think the TdF found the right formula of just having ~4hr stages everyday that can be raced intensely from the start. it seems like the riders are not afraid to go all out at that length of stage. i still would like at least one epic 6+ hour mountain stage though.

Which mountain stages were that hard form the start? Every one of them had Van Hooijdonck in the peloton after 2 hours of racing basically. Jumbo pace hard for attrition, but they would do that on a 6h day as much as on a 4h day.

It's also not about fear of long distance, it's just that teams don't wanna burn all their domestiques at the same pace, so you use the Luke Rowes and the Nathan van Hooydoncks for 4 hours on a 6 hour stage instead of for 2 hours on a 4 hour stage.

The one big question for me is to what extent Govenou deliberately avoids long mountain stages and to what extent it's basically just "this is good enough", and how quickly their views on route design change. It's not like they won't do 3 HC climbs in a stage when they will go for the dreadfull Galibier-Croix de Fer-Alpe d'Huez designs any time they like. This year they did take a detour to add Longfry before Loze, they could have just gone through the valley. I also wonder to what extent it's just the consequence of what areas wanna host stages. We haven't seen Agnel-Izoard back but we never had a chance to get it back because the Tour basically never goes to Italy.

Overall I have a much bigger problem with the hard stages being only 'bout that MTF designs than the lack of 220km 6 hour mountain stages.

 

[Red Rick]

Alpe d'Huez was not good, but the Pyrenean stages were great, lol. Handholding competition, my ass.

Peyragudes was just McNulty choo choo train for 97% of it.

 

[tobydawq]

Peyragudes was just McNulty choo choo train for 97% of it.

Yeah, completely identical to Stelvio in 2020.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, completely identical to Stelvio in 2020.

Stelvio had relevant action behind with Kelderman and Almeida being dropped behind. Geraint Thomas' disappearance acts were no longer relevant by Peyragudes.

If we can flame the 2022 and 2023 Giro final week action we can definitely put some dampeners on that Peyragudes stage.

 

[houtdffan]

I think a lot of tours fit this description.

But this was is still widely talked about today.

Also, the time gaps were MASSIVE. 4th place was 18 minutes behind

 

[Rob5091]

The reason Jumbo create so much carnage in the Tour is because they simply believe Vingegaard has better fatigue resistance and recovery over 3 weeks.

This, I think, was particularly relevant this year with Pogacar's expected lack of preparation - a.k.a. the steam roller tactic.

 

[Escarabajo]

Peyragudes was just McNulty choo choo train for 97% of it.

Yeah, but his choo choo dispatched everyone but Pog and Vingo.

 

[Netserk]

Yeah, completely identical to Stelvio in 2020.

Both Dennis and McNulty were awesome. We’ve been quite fortunate to have strong doms mostly used offensively.

 

[zlev11]

Which mountain stages were that hard form the start? Every one of them had Van Hooijdonck in the peloton after 2 hours of racing basically. Jumbo pace hard for attrition, but they would do that on a 6h day as much as on a 4h day.

hey you'll get no argument from me on the stage lengths, i would prefer 220k behemoths too. Jumbo rode hard the whole Morzine stage and the Courchevel stage was out of control from the start, they even dropped Ineos and other GC riders over the top of the Saises. they were good stages and I'm not sure they would've been all that much better with another 60k added onto them. the super long mountain stages should absolutely have a place in the race though and I was among the first to *** and moan about bad stage design from this past Tour. but as a whole, the race was very good almost every day.

 

[fabri]

Of course they can, with the attacking riders that fortunately cycling have at the moment. Look the gaps on col du granon and col de la loze.

I was two days ago on the bonette, it's a tough climb but no way comparable to granon or loze, besides the moutière paved section is quite horrible and I don't think they'll ever pave the remaining 2 Km as you're in the mercantour park, nature is protected..