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- Aug 3, 2015
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Well, whether a break like you describe gets 10 or 2 minutes, or whether none decide to go up the road in the first place, its the same to me. Flat stages are there to get nuked or at least reduced, and Gouvenou has realized just that during this year's Tour. ASO have the template which is 2022 and no artificial jerseys and other crap - simply just better stage design. I don't care one single bit if a couple fof regions don't see that much of the race anymore, thats just how it will be. And then when they visit those places, they should obviously do a better job to seek out the difficulties that the region has to offer whether thats hills, exposed areas, cobbles and other stuff like they did in Dijon
Its just that simple to me.
- Feb 20, 2010
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It is just that simple, and flat stages, ironically enough, were one of the things ASO had been doing well in recent years. I don't know if maybe they were just super enthused by Cav-watch to give so many bunch sprint opportunities in the race or what, but this year has been a bad regression on that front, with both more sprint stages and less interesting sprint stages making for a bad combination.
That said, there would probably have been a lot more intrigue if Cav was getting up there in the mix on the sprints but hadn't actually won a stage yet. As it was, his taking the stage win in the middle of week 1 but not really looking remotely competitive otherwise, while Ghirmay has a fairly comfortable lead in the maillot vert competition, means that any intrigue or anticipation relating to the sprint has been taken out of those stages before we get to any artificial BOTD action anyway.
Hopefully they go back to the 2021-22 type of flat stage diet, where they were actively hunting out areas where they could have challenging run-ins, areas exposed to the wind (if the weather then doesn't play ball then fair enough, but at least they did their bit), repechos and so on in order to maximise the possibilities in the stages.
- Aug 3, 2015
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Agree, especially 2022 I think back on very fondly, I guess partly ALSO because I was present at all the three opening stages, so despite them being the only bad part about the race, we had an absolute blast still. At that point I guess whats actually happening in the race is of lesser value, but obviously watching from home in the Netherlands or Hungary and what not, that most have been rather worthless. But the remainder of that race (stage 4-20) were all time great IMO
- Jul 17, 2022
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flat stages with a break are only a little bit more entertaining then those without… in the first two weeks, they almost never work. Watching those unknown French teams riders fail and fail… Maybe like someone said they should include some with an upward finish, some cobbles near the end… But that is easier said then done, not every ville had some sort of mur in its centre.
I just wonder if a team like quick step can put pressure on aso by telling them Remco will choose giro or vuelta it that race route suits him better….
We want the double 70 km itt back…
I just wonder if a team like quick step can put pressure on aso by telling them Remco will choose giro or vuelta it that race route suits him better….
We want the double 70 km itt back…
- Jul 17, 2021
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I guess less flat stages in the future is on.
cyclinguptodate.com
Tour de France director intends to reduce number of sprint stages into future: "They disappointed us a little bit and we won't include that many in the future!"
Joining a breakaway in flat transition stages had become sort of a suicide mission in recent years which only the smaller teams were interested in taking on - either for sponsor visibility, or to get...
cyclinguptodate.com
Great. But it must be said that it isn't exclusively ASO's fault. There were a couple of stages this year where it should have been a fair chance for a proper breakaway to stay clear. But when there is close to none interest to chase these breakaways, they will of course end up with a mass sprint. There are at most 4-5 teams that should aim solely for the mass sprint and not trying to get riders in a breakaway. Teams like Bahrain (Bauhaus), Israel (Achkermann), AG2R (Bennett) and Movistar (Gaviria) should be at least as interested in breakaways that in a mass sprint. But that didn't exactly look that way in this version of the Tour.I guess less flat stages in the future is on.
Tour de France director intends to reduce number of sprint stages into future: "They disappointed us a little bit and we won't include that many in the future!"
Joining a breakaway in flat transition stages had become sort of a suicide mission in recent years which only the smaller teams were interested in taking on - either for sponsor visibility, or to get...
- Feb 20, 2010
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The other problem, though, is that the UCI points make accumulating placements far more important than they are relevant, and it encourages and rewards negative racing for the purposes of accumulation more than it encourages entertainment value. Teams like Israel (trying to win back WT status) and Movistar (one of the lower-ranked teams in respect of WT points and without a bonanza points gaining leader, especially once Mas' GC ambitions failed) are going to see scoring some points with a sprinter as worth accumulating, especially as Israel are going to get a bunch of GC points from Gee, and you can't really accuse Movistar of not stagehunting given the escapades of Lazkano, Aranburu, Romo and now also Mas in the last two weeks; it's just that they don't have riders who are effective stagehunters for flat stages unless they're a stage like stage 9 with the chemins des vignes which Aranburu and Romo both got into the break on and Lazkano would be a contender for too.
Mas has accumulated 185 UCI points this last 3 weeks. He'll likely finish around 20th on GC which earns 60 more, and is outside the top 3 of the KOM so won't win any points for that.
Gaviria has earned 365 UCI points this last 3 weeks, making him currently twice as useful as Mas, and still probably about 50% more useful once GC points are acquired.
Aranburu has accumulated 220, Lazkano 70, Oliveira and Romo 55 each, with Mühlberger and Formolo not scoring, meaning that the entire rest of the team is only just worth more than Gaviria (although Romo will get a few more points for finishing top 25 on GC as he's currently in 23rd and has about five minutes' margin to the next rider down, Carlos Verona). That is why they are content to help pull the breaks back, because even though they know that unless something unusual happens, Gaviria isn't going to win the stage, he will at least keep placing in the sprints and scoring them the garbage points that they might need in a couple of years' time, and him doing that will require a lot less effort than Álex Aranburu killing himself all day to make the final move in a baroudeur stage to finish in that same 5th position.
It has also meant, however, that wildcard teams - especially given we automatically have to give two of those wildcards to the teams that used to be WT and are trying to win back that status - have their eyes on the UCI points too, and a second rate sprinter is a very good way to bank safe, cheap points for little effort for these teams, again, expending a lot less energy than going on a day-long breakaway. The secondary classifications and intermediate sprints have little value (other than for the maillot vert which encourages the bunch to pull breaks back for them anyway), and the points system makes banking safe but boring points far more valuable than high-risk high-reward actions, and then the organisers and authorities running around apoplectic that the teams and riders are playing it too safe, when they basically made that the only sensible play to make.
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like - what are we arguing here. we have had break stages during the tour (and having more legitimate mid-mountain/break-friendly stages has been something the TDF has definitely gotten better at over the last ten-or-so years). not all of them have succeeded, but i've seen more concerted lengthy fights to create and bridge to breaks this TDF (and the last few, really) than for a while.
if we're arguing that there were too many sprints this route, sure. but those stages would be boring regardless of whether or not an Agritubel and Sojasun guy was 15 minutes up the road with 190km left.
if we're arguing that there were too many sprints this route, sure. but those stages would be boring regardless of whether or not an Agritubel and Sojasun guy was 15 minutes up the road with 190km left.
- Feb 20, 2010
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This is in response to an article where the higher-ups in ASO complain that nobody has enlivened their flat stages and bewailing the lack of breakaways in those stages, and saying, well, the UCI have done everything possible to discourage the kind of action, and what they haven't done, the péloton have, by way of making it the typical thing that the break sits at 2 minutes up the road all day rather than gaining time and being reeled back. At least back 15-20 years ago the break would get far enough up the road that you might think that the bunch could miscalculate even if they almost never did.
- Sep 20, 2017
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Zero chance, they are starting very close to Roubaix and have announced the stages in that area already.
- Oct 25, 2020
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I think they should ease off on the big mountains next year.
X2 50k time trials. None of this 20-30k horsesh**.
A few mountain stages finishing on the likes of Sestrieres, Orcieres, Pra Loup, Cauterets, Markstein etc would actually keep the race a bit closer and not be over by week 2.
X2 50k time trials. None of this 20-30k horsesh**.
A few mountain stages finishing on the likes of Sestrieres, Orcieres, Pra Loup, Cauterets, Markstein etc would actually keep the race a bit closer and not be over by week 2.
Remco gained 13 seconds on Pogacar on a 25km ITT. You extropolate that out to 100kms and Remco gains around one minute. Remco finished nine minutes behind Pogacar.
Please.
You obviously never watched a long itt. If you did, you would understand gaps increase expoenetially beyond 40 km. Just like the workd itt or 2015 giro
- Apr 7, 2011
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As always I hope for the return of a long flatish TT in the first half of the Tour.
That being sad, the last 5 years have been absolutely fantastic racing, making a total fool of all the guys here who always cry for super steep mountains.
You don`t need those goose trial type of mountains to make good racing. Normal climbs are mor ethan enough to allow for great attacks and big time gaps.
Therefore, all the organizers have to do is to produce a normal, balanced routes. Nothing crazy is needed.It`s the the riders that make the tour.
Alpe d Huez is obviulsly the big elephant in the room. I really think that the ASO is scared to go there. Because the public`s reaction will be a loud louder when the records of the EPO era will get destroyed. If I was the ASO, i surely would avoid Alpe D Huez for some time.
That being sad, the last 5 years have been absolutely fantastic racing, making a total fool of all the guys here who always cry for super steep mountains.
You don`t need those goose trial type of mountains to make good racing. Normal climbs are mor ethan enough to allow for great attacks and big time gaps.
Therefore, all the organizers have to do is to produce a normal, balanced routes. Nothing crazy is needed.It`s the the riders that make the tour.
Alpe d Huez is obviulsly the big elephant in the room. I really think that the ASO is scared to go there. Because the public`s reaction will be a loud louder when the records of the EPO era will get destroyed. If I was the ASO, i surely would avoid Alpe D Huez for some time.
- Oct 25, 2020
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I have a feeling this route model was swept under the carpet due to 2 reasons.
1. It heavily stinks the era that ASO dilligently try to erase from history.
2. Long TT's are not welcomed by TV and business interests.
It's been 17 years since 2 50+K TTs were held and that can not be accidental.
- Jan 29, 2021
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I read this on velowire. They usually know what they are talking about.
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