Tour de France Tour de France 2025, Stage 16: Montpellier to Mont Ventoux, 171.5 km

[gunara]

If he was ethiopian people would have charity concerts in his honor.

Tsgabu was around long enough and missed his chance by being too fat

 

[fenns]

the climb was frustrating to watch - a couple of times the TV coverage switched away just as you could see there were attacks in the GC group

 

[gunara]

the climb was frustrating to watch - a couple of times the TV coverage switched away just as you could see there were attacks in the GC group

To be fair riders at the front earned their rights for heavy airtime today despite carnage anywhere else. I complained a lot about coverage, but I think this one was okay.

 

[Heston]

The top 4 from the break were all riders who missed the split. Maybe the front group cooked themselves too much while Healy stayed out of the wind behind. Arensman looked dead very early.

 

[fenns]

To be fair riders at the front earned their rights for heavy airtime today despite carnage anywhere else. I complained a lot about coverage, but I think this one was okay.

No argument with the breakaway guys getting most coverage - but a GC attack has possible implications for the whole race so should not be missed. I think they need to make better use of split screen or captions. There are times when you need to have eyes on more than one thing - and they use it when they want to.

 

[Danskebjerge]

the climb was frustrating to watch - a couple of times the TV coverage switched away just as you could see there were attacks in the GC group

I saw it happen twice, and in both cases you can't really blame the producers, as there is always a short reaction time. It was just unfortunate. Of course, you could say they should stay more with the GC guys, but I don't think so. If there is a GC battle and a separate battle for the stage win, I think both are equally important.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

If I recall correctly, bikes in the Pantani era weighed something like 9 kilos. They weigh 6.8 kilos these days, and that only because the rules require them to. That's a massive difference on a 16 kilometer climb.

This is something that comes up every July.
Pantanis 1998 bike was below 7kg. I dont know what his 1994 bike was, but that was the last year the Tour was won on a steel bike, so it could be that Pantani had a 8 - 8,5 kg bike back then.

 

[D. Pecher]

This is something that comes up every July.
Pantanis 1998 bike was below 7kg. I dont know what his 1994 bike was, but that was the last year the Tour was won on a steel bike, so it could be that Pantani had a 8 - 8,5 kg bike back then.

The idea that a 1998 bike was anywhere near as good as a contemporary one is frankly laughable. Let's assume it was below 7kg back then. But at what price? It must have had all the rigidity of a wet paperbag. People didn't invest millions every year for two decades to come up with something that is barely any better than what Fred Flintstone was riding on.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

The idea that a 1998 bike was anywhere near as good as a contemporary one is frankly laughable. Let's assume it was below 7kg back then. But at what price? It must have had all the rigidity of a wet paperbag. People didn't invest millions every year for two decades to come up with something that is barely any better than what Fred Flintstone was riding on.

I never said anything about it being equally good, i just said Panrani rode a bike that weighted below 7 kilos.

 

[D. Pecher]

I never said anything about it being equally good, i just said Panrani rode a bike that weighted below 7 kilos.

The point is that the weight back in the day came at a cost in other places. Someone said earlier they had to change it every other day, so that means by default that it was deterioration badly, even over one stage.

Even if we assume the actual weight hasn't gone down much in absolute numbers. Today's bikes are so much more optimized on all terrains, people should not be surprised that riders go faster than thirty years ago. In essence, the low weight of today's bikes comes with a whole lot less trade-offs than back in the day.

 

[proffate]

If I recall correctly, bikes in the Pantani era weighed something like 9 kilos. They weigh 6.8 kilos these days, and that only because the rules require them to. That's a massive difference on a 16 kilometer climb.

Nope: https://www.bikeradar.com/features/pro-bike/retro-pro-bike-marco-pantanis-1998-bianchi-mega-pro-xl

Although it wasn't super-stiff compared to today's carbon fibre machines, Pantani's bike was undeniably light, even by modern standards. The total weight was only 6.96kg (15.34lb), including bottle cage and pedals.

 

[proffate]

The point is that the weight back in the day came at a cost in other places. Someone said earlier they had to change it every other day, so that means by default that it was deterioration badly, even over one stage.

Even if we assume the actual weight hasn't gone down much in absolute numbers. Today's bikes are so much more optimized on all terrains, people should not be surprised that riders go faster than thirty years ago. In essence, the low weight of today's bikes comes with a whole lot less trade-offs than back in the day.

Today's bikes are more aero, more comfortable, shift better, brake better, ..., but they are not much better for going uphill on a smooth surface.

 

[dobrien]

Compared to Michael Rasmussen he's actually well-fed!

I would rather be the slowest cyclist in the world than look like that.

 

[D. Pecher]

Today's bikes are more aero, more comfortable, shift better, brake better, ..., but they are not much better for going uphill on a smooth surface.

Have you ever raced a bike? I'm a 50+ year old who will never threaten to get invited to the Olympics, but even I can tell that I can climb better on a modern bike than back in the day when I was 20 years younger. I caught the cycling bug when the whole Telekom craze took off here in Germanyland. I've never been more than a casual rider, but I can say with some confidence that a 2025 bike is worlds apart from a 2000 bike on a climb.

Granted, you have to sell your granny to afford them, but the difference is obvious, even to a non-professional like me.

 

[KZD]

Great win for VPP with a huge effort from Van Wilder in the end. Quick-Step managing to do a very good Tour even with Remco abandoning the race, already 4 stage wins and tomorrow could be the 5th.

Healy once again doing a huge performance, I think he ended up losing the stage because he was also thinking on improving his own GC.

Valiant ride from Vingegaard, he attacked from afar in order to try to drop Pogačar, wasn't succesful but showed that he still believes that he can crack the Slovenian.

Pogačar was the favourite for the stage but didn't win. While I don't think he had a great day for his standards, UAE let the breakaway get to much time so he just focused on defending himself from Vingegaard's attacks and conserving a bit of energy ahead of stages 18 and 19.

As I expected Roglič better than Lipowitz, on the unipuerto stages his w/kg are still very high.

Hope Tobias Johannessen is feeling better, passing out is always scary, especially after such effort.

 

[HashRouge]

I don't buy that. It's not a long and flat TT, it's a slow ascent. When the speed is 15-20 kph, all the factors you mention, especially aero dynamics, are reduced. Surely Pantani's low weight is of bigger importance compared to a guy like Pogacar.

Pogacar is really tiny though. I know you can't tell from this forum, where everyone goes on about him like he's an elephant compared to someone like Vingegaard, but he's really a small guy. I watched him ride past me three times last week, on Hautacam, in the TT and on the Tourmalet, and I was struck every time by how small and skinny he is. I feel like climbing needs a balance between weight and power, so at a certain point being lighter doesn't give you an advantage if you can't push the same power as the guy who is a few kg heavier.

 

[Lequack]

Some pics

 

[Alexandre B.]

Paret Peintre owes Healy a drink tonight. He almost single handedly pulled the second group back up to Mas then gets pick pocketed at the finish.

Healy already had a stage win and was gaining time on GC. It was logical for him to do most of the work.

Quick Step also rode well the entire day.

 

[gunara]

No argument with the breakaway guys getting most coverage - but a GC attack has possible implications for the whole race so should not be missed. I think they need to make better use of split screen or captions. There are times when you need to have eyes on more than one thing - and they use it when they want to.

Only the other day I noticed they did something with the split screen rather neatly on the upper third (missed lots of races this year and the last, so I didn't realize it's a thing), but yeah, seems that they're still clumsy with it when it gets too hectic. Sometimes I feel cycling coverage grows up and learns from a different planet to other sports, it does some cool stuffs but is often so out of touch too.

 

[Rule #9 apostle]

Pogacar is really tiny though. I know you can't tell from this forum, where everyone goes on about him like he's an elephant compared to someone like Vingegaard, but he's really a small guy. I watched him ride past me three times last week, on Hautacam, in the TT and on the Tourmalet, and I was struck every time by how small and skinny he is.

Was surprised by the same thing seeing him live in the ronde. When he is fighting the big guys up the oudenaarde he genuinely looks like a middleschooler

 

[staubsauger]

Healy already had a stage win and was gaining time on GC. It was logical for him to do most of the work.

Quick Step also rode well the entire day.

Yeah, Healy himself got a free ride from Quick Step earlier. Hence why the Irishman didn't argue with Valentin, just Buitrago.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yeah, Healy himself got a free ride from Quick Step earlier. Hence why the Irishman didn't argue with Valentin, just Buitrago.

Buitrago was Buitragone off the back shortly thereafter.

 

[dazaau]

None of the riders of the area think so, and a comment you hear over and over from the @38 years olds to @30..bonking is very very rare almost a thing of the past, major responsibility for team cars is to yell into the radio to eat and drink, eat and drink, eat and drink.. They don't stop..@120+ grams an hour is near impossible to consume!! Riders always looking for something sweet solid,

I'm think the OP may have been referring to non carb based intakes

 

[Tonton]

BRAVO VALENTIN! And a HUGE merci to Ian, when it came to tactics, he set The Crumb into orbit. What a win! Pog is the best that I have seen since Hinault. Today, big respect to Jonas. He's a great champion and he acted like one. Respect. Roglic wants the podium, it is now very clear, and he can do it. He's the old lion and he can fight...

 

[dobrien]

Yeah, Healy himself got a free ride from Quick Step earlier. Hence why the Irishman didn't argue with Valentin, just Buitrago.

I could have sworn I saw Healy gesturing with VPP for help a time or two, don't know if he was arguing with him but I don't think he was asking if he wanted a cup of tea either...