Tour de France Tour de France 2025 Stage 19: Albertville-La Plagne (93.1k) ‚Historic day, magnificent racing‘ ~ Rob Hatch, probably

[Samu Cuenca]

As long as it doesn‘t happen right now and I‘m forced to rewatch that abomination of a stage, I‘d agree.

It would come with the option of doing something else instead. But we know we probably wouldn't.

 

[Escarabajo]

Gosh, this stage was awful!
Didn't understand anything that happened, but I am glad it is over.

 

[RedheadDane]

Being able to travel back four hours could possibly be healthy for all of us.

Time travellers are witches, and should be BUUUUUUUUUUUURNEEEEEEEEEEED!
(I'll opt out. If that's okay with you.)

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I think backloading so many mountain stages to the last week contributes to anti-climactic outcomes like we saw today. There are only so many mountains riders can attack with abandon. At some point, they're going to ride defensively just out of self-preservation.

 

[Sciatic]

Well both wanted to win the stage, and both considered their best chances are if the other one worked more or spend energy attacking earlier. Neither did, so we had this outcome. Is that so difficult to understand?

I get Pogacar is annoyed, I get Vingegaard is annoyed, both probably feel they missed out on a great opportunity to win a stage.

This is cycling, the third one sometimes wins, this time Arensman. I think that's nice, since we actually got a winner that everyone wants here right? He went full out solo on the climb. Anyone else behind didn't and focussed on others near or behind them.

I understand that’s what you think. I just don’t agree—I believe Vingegaard wanted to win the stage but wasn’t willing to do it if it meant Pog would win instead. That meant he was willing to lose to Arensman and sharply decrease his chances of winning. You don’t believe that and you could be right, but all the other explaining is not
Needed (for me anyways) because it won’t change what I saw.

 

[Kazistuta]

Countryman? Not mine.

Pog hasnt done that. And he has more than enough reason to not make it a race today.

If Vinge just didnt want Pog to win, stay on the wheel in the end. Keep your dignity.

Are you claiming Pogacar hasn't "wheelsucked" Vingegaard at several stages this tour?

But sorry for assuming you were Danish, thought I read you say that a long time ago, so always thought that.

 

[dr.eve]

I understand that’s what you think. I just don’t agree—I believe Vingegaard wanted to win the stage but wasn’t willing to do it if it meant Pog would win instead. That meant he was willing to lose to Arensman and sharply decrease his chances of winning. You don’t believe that and you could be right, but all the other explaining is not
Needed (for me anyways) because it won’t change what I saw.

That's of course fine if that's your view, makes sense. I think Vingegaard gambled on that Pogacar would bring back Arensman. They almost did, but missed by two seconds, and that's of course worth nothing. Also we really don't know if Pogacar or Vingegaard were on reserve or on their max. Both our views could be right or both wrong. 👍

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I wasn't talking about criticism per se but the nasty name calling of cyclists .
But you know that and yet feel you have the right to talk down to me like a boorish old school master.
[content deleted]

I didn't know that, because you did nothing to link your comment to that. It didn't quote such a thing, nor did it immediately follow it.

By all means explain what you intended to communicate, but do not criticise others for responding to what you actually wrote.

 

[Berniece]

You were clearly implying he would get dropped if the stage was longer.

That could've been the case. Pogacar himself is saying he's tired. So basically I was right saying he was lucky the stage was shortened. Since he is tired.

 

[Sciatic]

That's of course fine if that's your view, makes sense. I think Vingegaard gambled on that Pogacar would bring back Arensman. They almost did, but missed by two seconds, and that's of course worth nothing. Also we really don't know if Pogacar or Vingegaard were on reserve or on their max. Both our views could be right or both wrong. 👍

Agreed

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Are you claiming Pogacar hasn't "wheelsucked" Vingegaard at several stages this tour?

On Ventoux he did, yes, and he had every right to do so as the yellow jersey. I cannot comprehend why that is unclear.

 

[Kazistuta]

On Ventoux he did, yes, and he had every right to do so as the yellow jersey. I cannot comprehend why that is unclear.

I don't claim he hadn't "the right" to do so. I just claim that Vingegaard had the exact same "right" to do so today, since he was after the stage, not a GC shakeup. I dislike the term wheelsucking, as even though I hate it from a viewers point, it's a very used tactical part of cycling (use less power than your opponents), and thus I accept that cyclists may take that approach in a given situation. Obviously I would like riders like Healy, Arensman, Gall and Abrahamsen to succeed way more, but it's just not always beneficiary to ride to please the TV viewers.

Bottom line: I totally understand JV's racing today. That's why I'm debating the negative voices here.

 

[jono]

Best QS rider was VPP in 9th, almost 4 minutes down. Pretty easy to keep at bay.



Just me being annoyed that the graphics department didn't want people to know how close the finish was.

The meters to go graphics always disappear in the final run in because the race motos that the positions are taken from are pulled from the course before the finish.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I don't claim he hadn't "the right" to do so. I just claim that Vingegaard had the exact same "right" to do so today, since he was after the stage, not a GC shakeup. I dislike the term wheelsucking, as even though I hate it from a viewers point, it's a very used tactical part of cycling (use less power than your opponents), and thus I accept that cyclists may take that approach in a given situation. Obviously I would like riders like Healy, Arensman, Gall and Abrahamsen to succeed way more, but it's just not always beneficiary to ride to please the TV viewers.

Bottom line: I totally understand JV's racing today. That's why I'm debating the negative voices here.

Ah, got it. I agree with that. If Jonas wanted the stage win rather than to dispute the GC, then yes, I think his tactics were consistent with that goal. It didn't make for pretty racing, though, that's the complaint. I expect no matter who your favorite racer might be, we all wanted to see a Pog v. Jonas battle on La Plagne.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

The meters to go graphics always disappear in the final run in because the race motos that the positions are taken from are pulled from the course before the finish.

Indeed, and also the km to go graphic just isn‘t accurate enough in the last few meters. I think they‘ve actually gone more towards taking the time by having trackers attached to the rider‘s bike at the Tour but somehow the race website live tracking has simultaneously gotten worse, usually only showing 3-4 large groups even while riders are spread out all over the road.

 

[Salvarani]

Are you claiming Pogacar hasn't "wheelsucked" Vingegaard at several stages this tour?

But sorry for assuming you were Danish, thought I read you say that a long time ago, so always thought that.

Pogacar has attacked and already gained a lot of time. Won stages.

It is not on Pog and it is not the same.

 

[ashhutch1997]

I think backloading so many mountain stages to the last week contributes to anti-climactic outcomes like we saw today. There are only so many mountains riders can attack with abandon. At some point, they're going to ride defensively just out of self-preservation.

True, plus there were way to many HC MTF's.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

True, plus there were way to many HC MTF's.

I thought the stage yesterday really killed today's stage. Riders were just smashed today, and it showed.

 

[Schultz0620]

Every one is definitely wiped out from a very hard course this year. Visma made it even harder with the way they raced. I do wonder what they will do differently next year. I really hope there's less backloading with the route, I'd like to see some really hard stages early when everyone is still fresh.

 

[Danskebjerge]

Well both wanted to win the stage, and both considered their best chances are if the other one worked more or spend energy attacking earlier. Neither did, so we had this outcome. Is that so difficult to understand?

I get Pogacar is annoyed, I get Vingegaard is annoyed, both probably feel they missed out on a great opportunity to win a stage.

This is cycling, the third one sometimes wins, this time Arensman. I think that's nice, since we actually got a winner that everyone wants here right? He went full out solo on the climb. Anyone else behind didn't and focussed on others near or behind them.

Unfortunately, people don't get this. Many have a very simplistic idea of cycling. Sad for them, because cycling is more interesting if you take the psychology and tactics into account instead of seeing it as a cartoon.

 

[Boehmand]

Wanna bet Pogacar is riding to win Sunday in Paris, with the 3 trips up Montmartre?

Vingegaard said in his exit interview today, that he will probably just sit at the back of the peloton to not take risks - WTF?

 

[Pippo_San]

This was the most anti climatic final mountain stage ever

 

[Jagartrott]

Because Pogacar pulled and Vingo wheelsucked…

But, but, Red Rick understands game theory. Game theory, commander! Such awesome knowledge - how can we ever win the argument now?

 

[Schultz0620]

I greatly admire Pog and Jonas and think they are awesome for the sport. I can also understand why people get frustrated by their talent level compared to the normal humans. Even when they aren't at their best, no one is close.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Wanna bet Pogacar is riding to win Sunday in Paris, with the 3 trips up Montmartre?

Vingegaard said in his exit interview today, that he will probably just sit at the back of the peloton to not take risks - WTF?

Why are you surprised? Thats the most sensible thing to do.