Tour de France 2025: who do you want to win?

[Devil's Elbow]

I think it also says a lot about how people feel about this era that Other is leading the poll, and that the two people who can actually win this race combine for barely a quarter of the vote.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It's a little bit pathetic how offended the Roglic fanboys/girls get when you call the objectively most conservative big-name rider of this decade boring. That's what, four people trying to argue that ackshually, he doesn't race negatively?

Considering the number of votes i guess we can assume Rogla isn't really considered boring. Hence i assume it's the offended non fanboys/girls that can't get a grip.

I think it also says a lot about how people feel about this era that Other is leading the poll, and that the two people who can actually win this race combine for barely a quarter of the vote.

Currently Rogla is leading.

 

[Netserk]

a little bit pathetic how offended the Roglic fanboys/girls get when you call the objectively most conservative big-name rider of this decade boring. That's what, four people trying to argue that ackshually, he doesn't race negatively?

If big-name rider only covers 4 GC riders, then despite his conservative approach he is easily not in the most boring half of them when riding for GC.

Dauphiné was more boring this year than last year.

 

[Berniece]

If big-name rider only covers 4 GC riders, then despite his conservative approach he is easily not in the most boring half of them when riding for GC.

Dauphiné was more boring this year than last year.

It's not about the result, it's about how he rides. Dauphine 2025 and Giro 2024 were boring because Pogacar was so superior, but Pogacar rides more attractively. Pogacar would still ride like this if he had someone that is his equal, see MVDP v. Pogacar all spring season.

Roglic just rides like a snoozefest when he isn't 100% sure that he is better.

 

[Netserk]

It's not about the result, it's about how he rides.

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Berniece

Normally, when riding like Pogi, that won't win you GTs, he is a outlier in this regard. Eventually i do feel that even Pogi will need to adapt and to ride more sparingly.

 

[Red Rick]

If big-name rider only covers 4 GC riders, then despite his conservative approach he is easily not in the most boring half of them when riding for GC.

Dauphiné was more boring this year than last year.

If we're strictly speaking stage races, he's also easily more aggressive than Evenepoel.

 

[Berniece]

If we're strictly speaking stage races, he's also easily more aggressive than Evenepoel.

Catalunya 2023, Paris-Nice 2024 showed us that he really isn't.

 

[Netserk]

Catalunya 2023, Paris-Nice 2024 showed us that he really isn't.

The GTs they rode together did.

And the difference is greater in the races where they didn't face each other.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I will go back to my initial claim:

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Origin of such claims. Due to Rogla winning so dominantly and mostly in close battles the opposition had to come up with something, to cope. Supposedly it was lack of long range attacks, that made it boring for them.

The emergence of Pogi further backs it up, that is Pogi is now doing exactly what some held against Rogla, for supposedly not doing that enough and some now even claim they are rage quitting cycling. Due to i guess long range attacking. On where what should happen instead, universal praise. That is if there would be much validity in the initial claims, instead what happened is Rogla is leading this poll. Crazy stuff.

 

[Berniece]

The GTs they rode together did.

And the difference is greater in the races where they didn't face each other.

Not sure that's the case.

Vuelta 2022 - Evenepoel was attacking more, and eventually Roglic crashed out. Only stage Roglic was more attacking was after Evenepoel fell.
Giro 2023 - We don't know due to crash Roglic and corona Evenepoel
Vuelta 2023 - Evenepoel attacked way more
TDF 2024 - Evenepoel was also more active. There was the stage Roglic tried to follow Vingegaard and blew himself up. But there was also the gravel stage.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Berniece

You have to agree that with the emergence of long rangers, Rogla adapted? Before that why would he change his winning ways? If Remco was winning GTs year in year out, would you hold it against him and claim he needs to change whatever he is doing? Due to being boring? C'mon.

 

[Red Rick]

It's a little bit pathetic how offended the Roglic fanboys/girls get when you call the objectively most conservative big-name rider of this decade boring. That's what, four people trying to argue that ackshually, he doesn't race negatively?

People usually like/dislike at an emotional level first then rationalize after the fact. I never denied he has often raced conservatively, I said it drives the narrative about his racing style too much considering he's made plenty of memorable attacks as well.

That said, when you want to use rational arguments, calling people defensive and pathetic doesn't really cut it. Condescension usually is not a very succesful persuasive strategy.

I also think it's a little ironic to call the fanbase that's most inclined to take the piss out of their own riders defensive.

 

[Berniece]

@Berniece

You have to agree that with the emergence of long rangers, Rogla adapted? Before that why would he change his winning ways? If Remco was winning GTs year in year out, would you hold it against him and claim he needs to change whatever he is doing? Due to being boring? C'mon.

Roglic doesn't need to change, and he can ride however he wants. I'm just saying he doesn't ride attractively. That's it. If you as a fan don't care about that, and you care more about the result. That's fine. That's a personal choice.

I'm happy Evenepoel said he is planning to attack more this year.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Roglic doesn't need to change, and he can ride however he wants. I'm just saying he doesn't ride attractively. That's it. If you as a fan don't care about that, and you care more about the result. That's fine. That's a personal choice.

I mean Rogla actually changed and adapted, he now often does "a Pogi".

I'm happy Evenepoel said he is planning to attack more this year.

Would you be happier if Remco animated the Tour 2025 or to win it, if you had to chose? And still, currently Pogi can often do both and the reality is there is quite a lot of friction involved in the sense of frequent fan complaints. So Rogla must be asking himself, why would i change my winning ways completely, riding like Pogi does, if i am still leading this poll.

 

[Red Rick]

Not sure that's the case.

Vuelta 2022 - Evenepoel was attacking more, and eventually Roglic crashed out. Only stage Roglic was more attacking was after Evenepoel fell.

Look, I wasn't even gonna argue the 2022 Vuelta much but then you make a statement that is just so over the top confidently and verifiably incorrect I just have to ask "WAT"

 

[CyclistAbi]

I will even go further and say that a couple of successful stomps, till the first rest day, that would be rather splendid outcome, fans in general would dig that. We'll see.

 

[Peyroteo94]

If we're strictly speaking stage races, he's also easily more aggressive than Evenepoel.

Remco, normally, isn't competitive in the mountains.

 

[Peyroteo94]

For me Roglic=Valverde. There is no other way to see it.

 

[Berniece]

Look, I wasn't even gonna argue the 2022 Vuelta much but then you make a statement that is just so over the top confidently and verifiably incorrect I just have to ask "WAT"

I have to be honest, it's been 3 year already so maybe I'm misremembering parts of the race. I quickly looked at some stage recaps, so how I see it it was:
- Stage 6 - Pico Jano, Evenepoel attacked and rode away from Roglic
- Stage 8 - Colláu Fancuaya, nothing happened between them
- Stage 9 - Les Praeres. Nava, Evenepoel attacked and rode away from Roglic
- Stage 12, Peñas Blancas. Estepona, nothing happened between them
- Stage 13, Evenepoel crashed
- Stage 14, 15 - Roglic attacks and rides away, Evenepoel can't follow since he's recovering from the Vuelta
- Stage 16, Roglic crashed
- Eventually Evenepoel wins and attacks a couple more times, but it doesn't matter anymore

What was wrong with me saying that Roglic only really attacked after Evenepoel crashed? Because before Evenepoel was always clearly better and was the one attacking and dropping Roglic.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Roglic is conservative and crashes a lot, often of his own volition. He's also one of the very few cyclists with a bit of humour about him, in what is let’s face it a rather dreary sport personality wise, also he’s handsome like Contador so the mummies like him.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Lets not forget Rogla won his last GT and week long stage race by doing "a Pogi".

 

[topcat]

No surprise Roglic leads the poll. Why he does is quite the mystery to me - boring style on and off the bike IMO. But he has a cult following on this site.

Voted Pog, but if I could just ignore the realities of Mas not being anywhere close in July, he'd be my pick. Just way too unrealistic.

It is human nature to want the unrealistic and to dream the impossible dream. Our logical side tends to dissuade us but if one goes for it, the seemingly impossible becomes possible. Does it make one happy? No, that's an inside job.
I want Alaphilippe to win ... a stage.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

If big-name rider only covers 4 GC riders, then despite his conservative approach he is easily not in the most boring half of them when riding for GC.

Dauphiné was more boring this year than last year.

Dauphiné was mainly less boring last year because both Roglic and Evenepoel were highly unreliable, not by any virtue or Roglic himself, who didn't attack a single time before the final 5 minutes of any stage. As is so often the case.

The 2022 and 2023 Tours were far and away more entertaining than every single GT Roglic has ever been a protagonist in, and that's coming from someone who thinks both of those Tours are overrated. And as demonstrated by @Berniece, Evenepoel has also usually been the more entertaining of the two when he and Roglic went head to head. 'Easily not in the most boring half', my ***.

People usually like/dislike at an emotional level first then rationalize after the fact. I never denied he has often raced conservatively, I said it drives the narrative about his racing style too much considering he's made plenty of memorable attacks as well.

That said, when you want to use rational arguments, calling people defensive and pathetic doesn't really cut it. Condescension usually is not a very succesful persuasive strategy.

I also think it's a little ironic to call the fanbase that's most inclined to take the piss out of their own riders defensive.

It's very funny that you're getting all defensive while complaining about me calling a group you are a part of defensive. And it's even funnier because I didn't actually use the word defensive in the post you are quoting.

I am also of the opinion that there is no point in employing persuasive strategies when the opposing viewpoint is completely detached from objective reality. And as evidenced for the umpteenth time by further posts in this thread, there is no fanbase in cycling more detached from reality on any subject than the Roglic fanbase is when it comes to Roglic' racing style.

 

[Netserk]

both Roglic and Evenepoel were highly unreliable, not by any virtue or Roglic himself

Uh? His wobbles and the drama is part of what makes Rogla exciting to follow.