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Tour de France: Stage 20 Rambouillet - Paris Champs-Élysées 120km

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Sep 23, 2011
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I've heard that part of Cav's advantage is that he thinks about each sprint more than others. He considers the wind, gradient, freshness, where to be on the final corner etc and so gives himself a better chance each time.

Anyway, however he does it, when he wins there are frequently people faster in the last 50 yards but they rarely even come alongside, let alone past him.
 
Morbius said:
I've heard that part of Cav's advantage is that he thinks about each sprint more than others. He considers the wind, gradient, freshness, where to be on the final corner etc and so gives himself a better chance each time.

Anyway, however he does it, when he wins there are frequently people faster in the last 50 yards but they rarely even come alongside, let alone past him.
I wonder if thats because Cav was often fastest in the first 50 or 100 yards?
.
 
Also never said Cavendish wins undeserved or something.

I just noticed after the finish that Sagan had an incredible last 200 meter and was the fastest in that sprint. Never said he should win it. Cavendish sprinted longer after all (400m vs 200)
But some people don't want to hear that Sagan had better speed...
 
Morbius said:
I've heard that part of Cav's advantage is that he thinks about each sprint more than others. He considers the wind, gradient, freshness, where to be on the final corner etc and so gives himself a better chance each time.

Anyway, however he does it, when he wins there are frequently people faster in the last 50 yards but they rarely even come alongside, let alone past him.

I wrote a post about this during last year's Tour when we were arguing over whether Greipel was good or not.

Basically, some sprinters have amazing bursts of acceleration that allow them to get the jump on people, but they can only hold that pace for a certain amount of time before they start to fade. Think of people like Óscar Freire or Andrea Guardini. Some sprinters have incredible top end speed, but they need to build up the speed, slowly turning up the wick until they're at full gas. Think of people like André Greipel. Cavendish marries having an amazing burst of acceleration with having one of the highest top end speeds in the péloton, so he can burst away from people, but then hold that speed to keep anybody from coming back to him. If anything, he often loses a bit of his lead in the last 50m because he's easing up because he's got enough of a jump that he's safe in his win.

To compare them to GC people, as obviously in the mountains you see the same scenario play out over a much longer period; the Guardinis of the world are like Igor Antón, José Rujano, and other born climbers, dancing on the pedals to make gaps. The Greipels of the world are like Denis Menchov, Cadel Evans and other diesels, who can often climb just as well, but stay in the saddle, don't tend to make big leaping moves away, just set themselves a high tempo and grind their way along. Mark Cavendish is like Contador; he can attack everybody until he's off on his own solo, then he can maintain a tempo too high for anybody to bring him back.
 
Dekker_Tifosi said:
I just want to add that I refrain from the people who say Sky is a disease or Sky are evil. I've never been in that crowd. Never will too.

You did say you wanted them to get run over by a bus, and you didn't care if you were banned for saying it.

And I know you deleted it, but it probably means you shouldn't run around striking that pose, saying 'never'.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
I just noticed after the finish that Sagan had an incredible last 200 meter and was the fastest in that sprint.
This is VERY obvious when watching from the overhead video. I think a lot of the people saying otherwise are seeing the camera view from the finish line where you can't really tell the gap distances. From the front viewing camera, it does indeed look like Sagan was drafting the whole time.
 
nightfend said:
This is VERY obvious when watching from the overhead video. I think a lot of the people saying otherwise are seeing the camera view from the finish line where you can't really tell the gap distances. From the front viewing camera, it does indeed look like Sagan was drafting the whole time.

No, people saying otherwise are noting that Cav's fastest section was at 300m to go, so comparing him to someone who put most of their sprint in 150m later is totally meaningless. If Sagan was quicker he would have ended the sprint closer to Cav than he started it, and he did not.
 
Apr 25, 2009
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Waterloo Sunrise said:
No, people saying otherwise are noting that Cav's fastest section was at 300m to go, so comparing him to someone who put most of their sprint in 150m later is totally meaningless. If Sagan was quicker he would have ended the sprint closer to Cav than he started it, and he did not.

To reiterate, Sagan had Cav's wheel at one point too. When he becomes rock solid on a wheel he'll have better chances. He's still not a top level sprinter yet, when he can consistently nail a wheel he'll get there.

I'll agree, the important of being second wheel into the last corner isn't lost on Cav, each year is a Masterclass. Sagan was still 2 bike lengths away, which at this level is a million ****ing miles.
 
Jul 17, 2010
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I've read that Cavendish doesn't have any more power at the pedals than the other top sprinters (~1500 watts), but what sets him apart is that he is at close to full power on his first 3 or 4 pedal strokes while other sprinters take longer to reach peak power, and also he's much more aerodynamic when he's sprinting than the other top sprinters, who are more upright on their bikes than Cavendish.
 
jazzcyclist said:
I've read that Cavendish doesn't have any more power at the pedals than the other top sprinters (~1500 watts), but what sets him apart is that he is at close to full power on his first 3 or 4 pedal strokes while other sprinters take longer to reach peak power, and also he's much more aerodynamic when he's sprinting than the other top sprinters, who are more upright on their bikes than Cavendish.

Yeah. They also tested Cavendish multiple times and he's scores are awful. But apart from his way of sprinting he's also a real fighter. He can die a million times in a stage and still be there in the sprint when he is in top form. That sets him apart from others.
 
Brilliant win from Cav, Sagan also showed why he's got so much promise too.

When Cav kicks for home nobody can stay with him initially. Then some riders manage to close the gap in the last 50m or so. Cav's natural instinct in the sprint is why he wins so many stages. He's allways 1 step ahead mentally and that is what Sagan has to get better at if he is to become the best sprinter.

All in all a great end to the tour (personal opinion). Never thought there would be 7 stages with a British winner either!

Also very happy as I backed Nibali to finish on the podium at 7/1 pre-tour :D
 
Another picture of Wiggins during the anthem. Possibly photoshopped but I hope not.

AybB4CcCcAAo1j9.jpg
 
Jun 21, 2011
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There aren't people STILL moaning about Sky, are there ? :p

I do recall a lot of Brad will never win, and Cav won't make it to Paris...comments. I hope your hats are tasty ;)
 
Apr 10, 2009
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Waterloo Sunrise said:
No, people saying otherwise are noting that Cav's fastest section was at 300m to go, so comparing him to someone who put most of their sprint in 150m later is totally meaningless. If Sagan was quicker he would have ended the sprint closer to Cav than he started it, and he did not.

You're kidding right? He did exactly that. Griepel gapped him heading onto the Champs and Sagan closed on Cav all the way to the line. Watch it again.
 
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Oh look at all the newly registered succes-supporters who come in here acting smug. You never see them anytime around until this Tour. And then claim there's an anti-Sky lobby even against people who actually predicted the Sky domination for this Tour (like me).

Smug: Exhibiting or feeling great or offensive satisfaction with oneself or with one's situation; self-righteously complacent.

Who's being smug? :rolleyes:
 
May 6, 2010
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People, please. Seeing Sagan close the distance on Cavendish in the last 150 meters does not mean Sagan was the faster sprinter. It means Cavendish slowed down and raised his hands in celebration. Look at it again, Cav does not finish full speed because he already had the stage won by well over a bike length. Stops pedaling and raises his arms to yell in delight. Goss had given up and also stopped pedaling, while the only one of those three that was still going all out was Sagan. So of course he was going faster at the very end. It certainly does not mean he was the fastest guy out there. Cav's last two sprints, both from 350+ meters out, have been the most impressive I have ever seen him do, and I've been watching him since he broke out. I do not believe anyone is capable of that level of sustained speed alone in the wind for that length of time. I didn't even think he was capable of it.

At any rate 23 stage victories = greatest sprinter in Tour history. Sagan definitely has the potential to get that far and even further, but at the same time, for all his sprint speed, he is more than just a pure sprinter since he wins in breakaways and rolling stages. I imagine he will be dominating spring classics as soon as next year. To say that Cav is the best sprinter there is, and probably the best there has ever been, is in no way to diminish Sagan's talent. I rather like both of them. Sagan is the more versatile rider earlier in his career, can win a wider range of races and stage types. Because of this, he will probably develop into a classics rider and rolling stage winner rather than a pure sprinter.
 
Sep 23, 2011
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It's interesting that Cav's last two wins have been long sprints when you consider the lead-out he is likely to get in the Olympics. The last man next week is likely to be Wiggins, which means that Cav will either have to get on another lead-out train or sprint long himself. Frankly I'm surprised that they didn't take Swift, but it seems they are planning to use the team to get Cav near the finish and let him do the rest on his own.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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Sky's domination of this Tour did not make for less of a race. For me, a more pitch battle is always preferred but they simply had worked the hardest and , yes, spent the most to assemble a team that could put Froome and Wiggins as they top end of the podium. Some really good stages. Froome has unlimited talent, but will he find a home that will allow him to be the next force to be recon with if he's not given the full nod at Sky next year?

I think the British squad will taste Gold next week.
 

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