Tour de France Stage 3 Wanze - Arenberg Porte du Hainaut, 207km

[scribe]

CN still reports that AC got dropped by Vino at the end. But then again, it's CN we're talking about...

CN reported at one point that Armstrong had bridged back to the Contador group while he was running solo. lol

I am guessing they are watching Versus too?

 

[seldon71]

Back on topic, Lance did well to get back on the group in front of him and limit his losses. That he was the recipient of bad luck, for the first time in 6 or 7 years, in the Tour, is quite a thing.

Yes, he gained MASSIVE 17 seconds by burning energy of himself and, especially, Popovych who pulled Lance for solid 10 kms (bar maybe 200 meters of Lance taking the shift) before that "impressive" jump to the group behind. Funnily, Popo who had led Lance over almost every pavé section until he was "dead" finished only those 17 seconds behind (as did Horner, Jani, LL and Klödi).

Before a flat tyre, Lance was already in trouble on each pavé (helped to stay in some touch by rether impressive Popovych). Yes, he fought hard to gain time between pavés, but did definitely NOT seem strong at any point.

 

[Scirea]

I agree. Cadel has been surprising this year. Is he going to attack in the mountains or is he going to try to be a wheel-sucker who eventually gets dropped? If he can wheel-suck the entire time in the mountains, he could go into the ITT with at least a minute on Contador.

Please... No way he can go with Bertie when he really attacks.

 

[scribe]

Yes, he gained MASSIVE 17 seconds by burning energy of himself and, especially, Popovych who pulled Lance for solid 10 kms (bar maybe 200 meters of Lance taking the shift) before that "impressive" jump to the group behind. Funnily, Popo who had led Lance over almost every pavé section until he was "dead" finished only those 17 seconds behind (as did Horner, Jani, LL and Klödi).

Before a flat tyre, Lance was already in trouble on each pavé (helped to stay in some touch by rether impressive Popovych). Yes, he fought hard to gain time between pavés, but did definitely NOT seem strong at any point.

Once bridged, the group was not as well organized as what he had bridged from. Stuck in it, spent from blowing his load, he pretty much settled into that group's finish.

 

[seldon71]

Popo is probably the last man you'd want on the pave, as we saw with the ease at which Armstrong dropped him

Popo was a great teammate for Lance leading him thru' every pavé except the last. Yes, he got dropped when Lance accelerated to catch the group in front... but, you know - quite often the guy who has led for 10 straight kms when the other one is regaining strength on backwheel ends up unable to go with... especially, when it's not his job ;-)

And in the end, Popo still lost only 17 secs to Lance.... Nuff said.

 

[Dominar]

Okay, one last thing on the Armstrong topic. Why does HE have to be there for the race to be interesting. If he were not riding, there would still be a good battle for the Tour after today. The assumption is that Armstrong is the likely challenger, but I would suggest that those who think that and Bob Roll are being optimistic.

Because, for the general viewer and casual race fan, he offers a compelling story and brings more charisma/personality to the proceedings than many other GC contenders. Admire him or hate him, you DO notice him. Contador, Evans and several other GC riders don't have that same sort of quality, IMHO. They may be excellent riders and all-around great guys, but it's too easy for the casual viewer to ignore them. I bet Versus is sweating bullets over the idea that 1/2 of their audience will disappear if they think LA is out of it.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

it's always great commentary from the cat 4 riders

Great commentary from Backstedt and Knaven too.

 

[Anonymous]

This is a rather absurd argument based on opinion, started because you decided that anyone who disagrees with your opinion is the type of person who only watches the TDF. It's a fairly pervasive attitude on these boards. I countered that silliness by pointing out that I watch all sorts of races and in my opinion the cobbles don't belong in the Tour.

descending mountain passes is an integrated part of every TdF and staying upright on such passes is generally related to bike handling skills.

I don't particularly care if you think my opinion "rings hollow". It's an opinion, TFF. It's not about the level of danger - you put those words in my mouth.

And my opinion is that mountain descents are as dangerous for riders as including a few cobbled sections in a race. (lets face the facts, that was no P-R. Not even close. You watch, and you know that. To hear some of the riders tell it, it was like they took P-R, made them race the full length and then turn around and go back) You countered with the fact that it is bike handling skills on descents, and I disagree to an extent. There are plenty of examples of people falling in instances that had nothing to do with bike handling. I also still would like a list of people who died in P-R on the cobbles recently.

The other fact here is that because the organizers came under great criticism for making routes that were so hard, people had to have chemical help, they made races like last year's snoozefest. The "drama" last year all revolved around a girly slap fight between two grown men. Adding stages like today's does nothing but make for excitement for viewers. Nobody can say today was boring. If people don't watch, then the sport ends up like mountain biking in the US. (exaggeration, but it illustrates my point).

 

[cineteq]

Funnily, Popo who had led Lance over almost every pavé section until he was "dead" finished only those 17 seconds behind (as did Horner, Jani, LL and Klödi).

Radioshack is in a big hole.
With this team, it's hard to believe that Popo was the last lieutenant.
18 Lance Armstrong (USA) Team Radioshack 0:02:30
24 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team Radioshack 0:02:53
27 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Team Radioshack 0:03:00
29 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Team Radioshack 0:03:01
44 Chris Horner (USA) Team Radioshack 0:03:17

 

[python]

puncture for Contador at the end confirmed..

it wasn't a puncture.

don't know if this was cited already but according to as.com, it was a brake problem, 'stuck brake', for the last 30 miles. Contador said he preferred NOT to chnge bikes in the heat of the race.

 

[scribe]

Popo was a great teammate for Lance leading him thru' every pavé except the last. Yes, he got dropped when Lance accelerated to catch the group in front... but, you know - quite often the guy who has led for 10 straight kms when the other one is regaining strength on backwheel ends up unable to go with... especially, when it's not his job ;-)

And in the end, Popo still lost only 17 secs to Lance.... Nuff said.

17 secs is a lot of ground on flat stretches.

 

[seldon71]

Once bridged, the group was not as well organized as what he had bridged from. Stuck in it, spent from blowing his load, he pretty much settled into that group's finish.

He didn't bridge from any group. He, Popo and Dumoulin were alone between those two bigger groups - one to which Lance bridged in front and one with other Shack'ers behind.

Did anyone manage to see/notice how did the group with Arkaitz Duran, Löfkvist, Kreuziger, McEwen et al. form? Did they drop from Conta/Vino/Wiggo -group or did they manage to ride away from Cavendish/Petacchi -group later? Before or after Lance joined?

 

[kurtinsc]

Radioshack is in a big hole.
With this team, it's hard to believe that Popo was the last lieutenant.
18 Lance Armstrong (USA) Team Radioshack 0:02:30
24 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Team Radioshack 0:02:53
27 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Team Radioshack 0:03:00
29 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Team Radioshack 0:03:01
44 Chris Horner (USA) Team Radioshack 0:03:17

None of the others have much in the way of cobbled experience.

The big question for me with RS's team is why RAST wasn't up there with Lance. Rast has the most cobbled experience, and Popo and Muryavev have some.

Lance seemed to be hoping going in that others would set a hard pace, and he'd be able to hold on while Contador and the Schlecks would not. He didnt' have the team to set the pace himself.

Instead Andy was actually up the road, Contador was able to hold on... and he got a flat. The team probably all did what was hoped... except Rast. He should have been in the group with Lance and able to drop back and help pull him back.

 

[seldon71]

Because, for the general viewer and casual race fan, he offers a compelling story and brings more charisma/personality to the proceedings than many other GC contenders. Admire him or hate him, you DO notice him. Contador, Evans and several other GC riders don't have that same sort of quality, IMHO. They may be excellent riders and all-around great guys, but it's too easy for the casual viewer to ignore them. I bet Versus is sweating bullets over the idea that 1/2 of their audience will disappear if they think LA is out of it.

Difficult not to notice when cameras are following him 25 % of the time. PERSONALLY, I would be most interested in following Samuel Sanchez (who, by Euskaltel-standards, had a great cobble-race today ), but how do I do it if he is not picked up by cameras a single time...

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Because, for the general viewer and casual race fan, he offers a compelling story and brings more charisma/personality to the proceedings than many other GC contenders. Admire him or hate him, you DO notice him. Contador, Evans and several other GC riders don't have that same sort of quality, IMHO. They may be excellent riders and all-around great guys, but it's too easy for the casual viewer to ignore them. I bet Versus is sweating bullets over the idea that 1/2 of their audience will disappear if they think LA is out of it.

I realize I'm preaching to the choir here but maybe Versus should have cultivated more attention over the years dedicated to other riders to distribute their coverage more fairly and broadly? The reason a casual Versus viewer doesn't know much about other riders is because they've never been given much information about these other riders. Each riders has their own story and personality. They aren't mindless, emotionless automatons just because we don't know as much about them on a personal level. The viewership simply hasn't been given the the benefit of a doubt to get to learn more about them. The decision has always been made for them that they wanted 99.9% coverage of another single rider.

 

[Christian]

Don't know if anyone has posted this already:

Fränk broke his collarbone once and his shoulder thrice. That sucks.

It is also reported that he fell over Tony Martin, who fell in front of him.

In other news, I'm a little mad at Thor Hushovd. Sure I can understand why he didn't want to take any leads, but just imagine Cancellara, Evans and Hushovd all working together ... the gap would have been at least 30 seconds bigger IMO, so that Contador would have 1 min on Andy now and 1:30 on Evans.

Everything would be much more exciting, the gaps right now - especially the one of Andy to Contador - is not really significant.

So too bad Hushovd couldn't get over his ego and help pulling on the front, because he could have still beaten Thomas.

 

[red_flanders]

God I laughed when Dirk pulled up his famous placard at the finish today.

Watch it appear out of nowhere @ 8:12: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpdYTM6XcM0#t=8m10s

Absolutely love that guy. For some reason I love the classics connection, and hope this is the only day we see his sign.

 

[eleven]

And my opinion is that mountain descents are as dangerous for riders as including a few cobbled sections in a race.

One more time, only you are talking about the danger involved.

You countered with the fact that it is bike handling skills on descents, and I disagree to an extent. There are plenty of examples of people falling in instances that had nothing to do with bike handling. I also still would like a list of people who died in P-R on the cobbles recently.

One more time, only you are talking about danger and people dying. I'm talking about the TdF and the type of race I would like it to be vs. the type of race you would like it to be.

Of course, we're on the cyclingnews Forum so anyone who disagrees with the general consensus opinion is somehow wrong.

Adding stages like today's does nothing but make for excitement for viewers. Nobody can say today was boring. If people don't watch, then the sport ends up like mountain biking in the US. (exaggeration, but it illustrates my point).

I agree that it was exciting. The Red Bull Flugtag is exciting as well - perhaps we could have a stage end with that? (actually, that might not be a bad idea for ATOC...)

Edit to add: The Flugtag idea is really growing on me.

 

[autologous]

So too bad Hushovd couldn't get over his ego and help pulling on the front, because he could have still beaten Thomas.

get over his ego? he was the best sprinter in the group, he raced exactly as he should have raced in that situation.

 

[Anonymous]

I realize I'm preaching to the choir here but maybe Versus should have cultivated more attention over the years dedicated to other riders to distribute their coverage more fairly and broadly? The reason a casual Versus viewer doesn't know much about other riders is because they've never been given much information about these other riders. Each riders has their own story and personality. They aren't mindless, emotionless automatons just because we don't know as much about them on a personal level. The viewership simply hasn't been given the the benefit of a doubt to get to learn more about them. The decision has always been made for them that they wanted 99.9% coverage of another single rider.

Yes,

Vs had an opportunity to build a franchise around the TdF coverage for the future.

They have blown it by only telling the viewers the Armstrong story and by trying to demonize any other riders - especially them "furrin" ones.

The things that are said about Contador on US based forums are disgusting, especially when you consider their total knowledge comes from the slander they have been fed by Vs..

I read someone on another forum today say that " it looks like the Spanish Flea is growing into a competent rider"

He has won 4 GT's and assorted classics that Lord Armstrong would never enter and he is growing into a competent rider???

 

[Escarabajo]

...

So too bad Hushovd couldn't get over his ego and help pulling on the front, because he could have still beaten Thomas.

And hurt Carlos Sastre's plans whatever they are?

Besides he was the best sprinter anyway. So no need to work.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Don't know if anyone has posted this already:

Fränk broke his collarbone once and his shoulder thrice. That sucks.

It is also reported that he fell over Tony Martin, who fell in front of him.

In other news, I'm a little mad at Thor Hushovd. Sure I can understand why he didn't want to take any leads, but just imagine Cancellara, Evans and Hushovd all working together ... the gap would have been at least 30 seconds bigger IMO, so that Contador would have 1 min on Andy now and 1:30 on Evans.

Everything would be much more exciting, the gaps right now - especially the one of Andy to Contador - is not really significant.

So too bad Hushovd couldn't get over his ego and help pulling on the front, because he could have still beaten Thomas.

On Thor - noooo... he had to protect and hold off for Carlos - aand then finish off the job with the win.

Terrible to hear that about FS.

 

[Scirea]

He didn't bridge from any group. He, Popo and Dumoulin were alone between those two bigger groups - one to which Lance bridged in front and one with other Shack'ers behind.

Did anyone manage to see/notice how did the group with Arkaitz Duran, Löfkvist, Kreuziger, McEwen et al. form? Did they drop from Conta/Vino/Wiggo -group or did they manage to ride away from Cavendish/Petacchi -group later? Before or after Lance joined?

They weren't in the Wiggo/Contador group, that's for sure.

 

[Cobblestones]

So too bad Hushovd couldn't get over his ego and help pulling on the front, because he could have still beaten Thomas.

Dude ... no.

 

[therhodeo]

Don't know if anyone has posted this already:

Fränk broke his collarbone once and his shoulder thrice. That sucks.

It is also reported that he fell over Tony Martin, who fell in front of him.

In other news, I'm a little mad at Thor Hushovd. Sure I can understand why he didn't want to take any leads, but just imagine Cancellara, Evans and Hushovd all working together ... the gap would have been at least 30 seconds bigger IMO, so that Contador would have 1 min on Andy now and 1:30 on Evans.

Everything would be much more exciting, the gaps right now - especially the one of Andy to Contador - is not really significant.

So too bad Hushovd couldn't get over his ego and help pulling on the front, because he could have still beaten Thomas.

Good thing you don't let being from Luxemborg blind you.