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Tour De France: Unchained aka that netflix thingy

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You have quite a firm opinion considering that you haven't watched it. It's really not bad. The series of course tries to address the viewers with little to no knowledge about cycling. Whether you call that dumbing it down or an introduction into the world of cycling - we could debate that... I think if you start at the basics, it's not really dumbing it down - it's something you need to do for a wider audence to understand it. And next year, should the project be extended, we may get a much more nuanced view of what happened.

Regarding drama: The fact is that in the series, Jonas himself does express his concern after stage 4 about Wouts priorities and Niermann does go to talk to Wout (after he won the stage) to very carefully point out that they are basically here to win the TDF not individual stages. I think this is some genuine drama (there must have been a couple of pages written on that topic on this forum) that I was not aware of until I watched the episode. It was not even blown out of proportion. It could be presented way worse, given the actual footage they got from the participants.

And if Netflix made a Vuelta documentary, they would probably take quite some time on the Roglic-Wright incident. And we would discard it as being overly dramatic. The same people who wrote 40 pages worth of material on this topic. Who's being overly dramatic? :)
Actually this scene is just one example of drama that isn't actually there, by manipulating what Niermann is saying. Or actually, by wrongly translating it. Because you can hear him saying in Dutch: "als je had gewacht, hadden ze je sowieso teruggepakt" (if you had waited, you'd have been caught for sure). Niermann speaks fluent Dutch, even though he's German. There's no other way to interpret what he's saying. But the Netflix translation turns it into "if you had waited, he'd certainly have caught up with you". That is the exact opposite! He's confirming Van Aert did the right thing, rather than telling him he didn't. But it doesn't fit the narrative, so Netflix changes it.
 
Actually this scene is just one example of drama that isn't actually there, by manipulating what Niermann is saying. Or actually, by wrongly translating it. Because you can hear him saying in Dutch: "als je had gewacht, hadden ze je sowieso teruggepakt" (if you had waited, you'd have been caught for sure). Niermann speaks fluent Dutch, even though he's German. There's no other way to interpret what he's saying. But the Netflix translation turns it into "if you had waited, he'd certainly have caught up with you". That is the exact opposite! He's confirming Van Aert did the right thing, rather than telling him he didn't. But it doesn't fit the narrative, so Netflix changes it.
Wow. They sure had me fooled…
 
Actually this scene is just one example of drama that isn't actually there, by manipulating what Niermann is saying. Or actually, by wrongly translating it. Because you can hear him saying in Dutch: "als je had gewacht, hadden ze je sowieso teruggepakt" (if you had waited, you'd have been caught for sure). Niermann speaks fluent Dutch, even though he's German. There's no other way to interpret what he's saying. But the Netflix translation turns it into "if you had waited, he'd certainly have caught up with you". That is the exact opposite! He's confirming Van Aert did the right thing, rather than telling him he didn't. But it doesn't fit the narrative, so Netflix changes it.
Unreal. Thanks for posting this!
 
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Everything is being explained as if the viewer is either an imbecile or a child. I can see how that would work for people who don't have the faintest idea of how bikeracing works. But then, the editing is done rather chaotic that i doubt that for exactly those people who are unfamiliar with cycling and need everything explained, the overall course of events is clearly structured and comprehensible.
 
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Actually this scene is just one example of drama that isn't actually there, by manipulating what Niermann is saying. Or actually, by wrongly translating it. Because you can hear him saying in Dutch: "als je had gewacht, hadden ze je sowieso teruggepakt" (if you had waited, you'd have been caught for sure). Niermann speaks fluent Dutch, even though he's German. There's no other way to interpret what he's saying. But the Netflix translation turns it into "if you had waited, he'd certainly have caught up with you". That is the exact opposite! He's confirming Van Aert did the right thing, rather than telling him he didn't. But it doesn't fit the narrative, so Netflix changes it.

I suppose there's also the matter of who "he" is.
Pogacar catching up with Van Aert, and getting the stage win = bad.
Vingegaard catching up with Van Aert, without Pogacar = good.

And I wonder what those moments that they didn't show Van Aert was referring to.
 
There are a few shots from inside the Bora team car, but otherwise they don't feature.
I didn't find any info why they where cut out. Perhaps they where to boring in the race. I personally think that they could have shown the "drama" with Kämna. Getting caught with 75 metres to go at belles filles and missing the yellow jersey.

Instead they randomly put one clip with Aldag in the sprint final in which was like:
"We let them do the f****** gc stuff so push them out of the way if we want to sprint" 😅
 
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I'm surprised posters are surprised that this is more for the casual or new fan rather than people who spend their time on dedicated cycling forums.

Your not exactly going to sell a documentary to Netflix by telling them you already need a ton of background knowledge to watch.

they sold it as a Drive to Survive for cycling, but Drive to Survive somehow manages to cater for total newbies, casuals and those who hang around dedicated F1 forums, the biggest and largely only criticism that series gets is they create fake rivalry and drama between drivers, even within teams, that often doesnt exist, and Id argue a penchant for showing crashes in a very hollywood style, including faked sound effects.

but so its possible to make a documentary series that appeals to the widest potential audience, and not just be the dummies guide to that sport.

which Id argue this isnt just catering for casual or new fans anyway as there were bits in the episode I watched, youd not have a clue as a newbie what was going on based on the limited info they tell you, why the person interviewed was important as they dont explain who they were their background, what the stage relevance is or why its that important.

anyone watching this and going yep going to block out the calendar to watch the TdF this year, and gets to watch an Intermarche Wanty Gobert break go up the road for 150kms and spend 4 hrs listening to commentators talk about chateaus, wine and cheese, is going to think theyve tuned into the wrong sport.
 
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they sold it as a Drive to Survive for cycling, but Drive to Survive somehow manages to cater for total newbies, casuals and those who hang around dedicated F1 forums, the biggest and largely only criticism that series gets is they create fake rivalry and drama between drivers, even within teams, that often doesnt exist, and Id argue a penchant for showing crashes in a very hollywood style, including faked sound effects.

but so its possible to make a documentary series that appeals to the widest potential audience, and not just be the dummies guide to that sport.

which Id argue this isnt just catering for casual or new fans anyway as there were bits in the episode I watched, youd not have a clue as a newbie what was going on based on the limited info they tell you, why the person interviewed was important as they dont explain who they were their background, what the stage relevance is or why its that important.

anyone watching this and going yep going to block out the calendar to watch the TdF this year, and gets to watch an Intermarche Wanty Gobert break go up the road for 150kms and spend 4 hrs listening to commentators talk about chateaus, wine and cheese, is going to think theyve tuned into the wrong sport.
But this series did appeal to me and many who hang around cycling forums. I didn't mean to say nobody deep into cycling liked it but I don't see why anyone is shocked or disappointed with an outcome that was obvious.
 
That was a great bit
For every time some ******s block the road this Tour.
7pbmck.jpg
 
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You have quite a firm opinion considering that you haven't watched it. It's really not bad. The series of course tries to address the viewers with little to no knowledge about cycling. Whether you call that dumbing it down or an introduction into the world of cycling - we could debate that... I think if you start at the basics, it's not really dumbing it down - it's something you need to do for a wider audence to understand it. And next year, should the project be extended, we may get a much more nuanced view of what happened.

Fair point. I didn't and i don't plan to watch it. Still i remember when F1 was popular and the era in which USA was enthusiastic about Euro pro road peloton. Neither involved Netflix.

Movies like Rocky. Mostly fiction but has influenced generations. So moving pictures can be a powerful medium.

The idea of Netflix here is to produce some sort of fictional documentary about some historical event. And whenever i read about it people claim it should increase popularity of some sport. So the main idea behind it is to be one giant commercial for some sport. It's not journalism, it's not pure fiction to enjoy it as such. It's basically a commercial. And AFAIK each new season produces more and more "dramatic facts".

And then there is this current generation. Where they consume the whole thing in one go. Multiple series. All in all this is more about Netflix and less about some particular sport. My favorite Roglič fortunately is skilled when dealing with media. So i don't see much problem here and maybe a couple of years from now i will watch and enjoy this series as some light trivia. Mostly due to the fond memories of the era.
 
anyone watching this and going yep going to block out the calendar to watch the TdF this year, and gets to watch an Intermarche Wanty Gobert break go up the road for 150kms and spend 4 hrs listening to commentators talk about chateaus, wine and cheese, is going to think theyve tuned into the wrong sport.
Like F1 is any different? Most F1 races are incredibly boring, certainly if you don't know the details of an undercut and tire choices and so on. The winner is often known even before the start. Still the sport has masses of new fans thanks to Drive to Survive, because if you properly portray any sport it becomes interesting anyway. To my opinion they haven't managed to do so this time.
 
What I found the most interesting, if accurate, was that Geraint Thomas couldnt fathom that Pidcock wants to win the Alpe d'Huez stage and it beeing presented as a "big risk" that Pidcock goes into the break cause it meant G would have "one less guy around him". It really does explain alot about how that team rides if you think about it, allthough Im almost thinking that line of conservatism is way too absurd even for them, then again those were more or less direct quotes.
In contrast I loved Pidcocks attitude towards it: "Well we said we wanted to bring the race to Jumbo didnt we?" "Yes." "Well we arent really doing that at all are we?" :)

What I also found interesting is how the big raid on Pogacar wasn't really planned or rather not really ironed out. Theres a short segment where a Jumbo domestique goes to the car and says "Primoz asked when are we going to attack Pogacar" (this is during the Granon stage mind you). And Niermann basically is like: "Yea well just go for it whenever you feel like it". Thought there would be a deeper level of planning going into what they did that day. Then again maybe it did its just how the show presents it and that seemed quite laissez-faire.

These short little inside segments were what made the show somewhat enjoyable for me by the way; It just needed about 10x the amount of them
 
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What I also found interesting is how the big raid on Pogacar wasn't really planned or rather not really ironed out. Theres a short segment where a Jumbo domestique goes to the car and says "Primoz asked when are we going to attack Pogacar" (this is during the Granon stage mind you). And Niermann basically is like: "Yea well just go for it whenever you feel like it". Thought there would be a deeper level of planning going into what they did that day. Then again maybe it did its just how the show presents it and that seemed quite laissez-faire.
It's not a complete coincidence that Laporte just happened to be there right over the top of the Télégraphe... they had Laporte ready for that descent, and Van Aert for the next. Whether the attacks would happen a little earlier or later, of course Niermann can't direct that from his car.
 
It's not a complete coincidence that Laporte just happened to be there right over the top of the Télégraphe... they had Laporte ready for that descent, and Van Aert for the next. Whether the attacks would happen a little earlier or later, of course Niermann can't direct that from his car.

Yea I agree it seemed too well executed to be a coincidence, but that doesnt change that that is the vibe I got from the series, which make it interesting to me.
 
Jun 15, 2023
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Hi guys,

After watching some episodes
, I was thinking in the last days a lot about team tactics in cycling m. I read always after the mountain stages that jumbo visma isolated pogacar and he had to react to their attacks and thats what destroyed him. but I always thought then, that in my opinion also vingegaard has to react and has to put energy into it to keep the pace when one of his teammates e.g. van aert or roglic is attacking? so how can this be an advantage for him? can somebody explain me this? :D thx!
 
Hi guys,

After watching some episodes
, I was thinking in the last days a lot about team tactics in cycling m. I read always after the mountain stages that jumbo visma isolated pogacar and he had to react to their attacks and thats what destroyed him. but I always thought then, that in my opinion also vingegaard has to react and has to put energy into it to keep the pace when one of his teammates e.g. van aert or roglic is attacking? so how can this be an advantage for him? can somebody explain me this? :D thx!

In theory, Vingegaard doesn't have to react with the acceleration, he can just ride at his own pace and catch them when Roglic stops his acceleration after being caught by Pogacar. Whether it actually happened exactly like that is another story.
 
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