Tour Rider Selection and Roles

[TechnicalDescent]

About CN's news: "Andy Schleck is the defending Tour de France champion after Alberto Contador was disqualified per his doping ban."

It's not Cadel Evans? Or it's Pandy because he received his well earned yellow jersey later?

lol. They just corrected the mistake.

 

[patrick767]

The thing is that in fact Fuglsang and Monfort got accustomed to work on any terrain whereas Haimar is still a rider of the Tour top-15 and, thus, his spot is undisputed. Again, having 7 climbers out of 9 is a big risk. Probably Bruyneel chose one more flat/hilly gregario in addition to Jens and Fabi more.

If Horner's spot is clearly "disputed", then someone like Haimar would be too. Leaving Horner off the preliminary list still strikes me as a very odd decision by a "Master Tactician" who's failed to produce results this year despite a hugely stacked team.

 

[vcampbell]

lol. They just corrected the mistake.

At least

 

[Mellow Velo]

Horner 2012 vintage is showing his age.
Not the same rider since his big crash: less consistent.
For once I agree with Airstream's comment.

 

[Cancellator]

This marks the first time I've ever seen negative comments from RSNT fans on the official facebook. Who know what's happening inside the team? Not looking very good.

However, if you look past how likable Horner is and what he did in the past, with his current TT form he has no chance of a good overall placement in the Tour. I don't really get why he couldn't be a domestique though? Maybe his training is going badly over in the States and they decided to shift him to the Vuelta. He could probably... top 5 there, I guess?

 

[webbie146]

This marks the first time I've ever seen negative comments from RSNT fans on the official facebook. Who know what's happening inside the team? Not looking very good.

However, if you look past how likable Horner is and what he did in the past, with his current TT form he has no chance of a good overall placement in the Tour. I don't really get why he couldn't be a domestique though? Maybe his training is going badly over in the States and they decided to shift him to the Vuelta. He could probably... top 5 there, I guess?

Yes, that could be the reason. I hope they give him a shot at the Vuelta.

 

[Parrulo]

i am curious about one thing, with costa's performance in suisse if he keeps it up what could be his role in the tour?

last year he had a free role but the team didn't have piti and cobo for GC but he is just going so well atm the moment that maybe unzue will have him as some sort of backup plan as cobo isn't the most reliable rider around and piti is yet to prove himself to the max this season.

 

[ElChingon]

Horner has always been shafted out of a Tour spot so doesn't surprise me too much that he was shafted yet again. Besides, the Vuelta will be that much better not, Contador, Horner (remember his comment about being one of the best climbers) and the rest to go to the Vuelta, missing out on le Tour for both of them should light the fire and bring a good race.

 

[trevim]

i am curious about one thing, with costa's performance in suisse if he keeps it up what could be his role in the tour?

last year he had a free role but the team didn't have piti and cobo for GC but he is just going so well atm the moment that maybe unzue will have him as some sort of backup plan as cobo isn't the most reliable rider around and piti is yet to prove himself to the max this season.

Backup plan for what? Not GC I think as he isn't such a great climber. I think he'll go for stages regardless of Valverde and Cobo. (expect if they're in position to take podium)

 

[Parrulo]

Backup plan for what? Not GC I think as he isn't such a great climber. I think he'll go for stages regardless of Valverde and Cobo. (expect if they're in position to take podium)

didn't meant GC ofc, but wouldn't be the first time the entire team slaved for valverde without being allowed to ride for themselves.

Rui can get a stage win from a breakaway but this year no1 will underestimate him at all so it will be harder then last year.

 

[trevim]

didn't meant GC ofc, but wouldn't be the first time the entire team slaved for valverde without being allowed to ride for themselves.

Rui can get a stage win from a breakaway but this year no1 will underestimate him at all so it will be harder then last year.

Breakaways stage wins are always difficult to get but he can do it again. Fedrigo, Voeckler, LL Sanchez, Casar seem to get one each year almost so there must be some science to it

But yeah I just can remember Sierra Nevada 2009 when Rodriguez stopped from a break just to drah Valverde group instead of going for the stage himself

 

[Galic Ho]

Wow, Im not Wiggo/Sky fan but what a lot of nonsense.

Porte wasn't seen at the end of big mountains for AC in the Giro or Tour was because 1) he wasn't supposed to go to the Giro, he'd already raced a lot and was supposed to be concentrating on the Tour (on the assumption AC would be booted out by then) so should have been resting, and with AC having his Spanish armada to drive on the final climb they used Porte on the earlier climbs and then he'd sit up 2) by the time the tour came around Porte had ridden the most race days in the squad so probably fair that he couldn't pull at the end of the big days for AC. Szmyd wasn't really around to pull for Basso for the same reason, or is he a crap climbing domestique as well.

You then name the whole RST team as better domestique climbers than Porte/Rogers...Rohregger??? Please. Kloden?? Maybe 5 years ago. RST will be fine because they have the best climber on the team, but other than Frank, Andy dosn't really need anyone else in the mountains. And you say all these riders can can ride for a leader? What leader? Andy's not looking much like a leader of RST. I can't see Zubeldia or Horner really going too deep for a guy 5 min down from TTs. If he's to do anything he needs to be attacking from the bottom, not waiting for domestiques to try and isolate Wiggins.

And then you throw out Cobo? WTF. Hardly someone you'd be planning to provide reliable domestique service. Cav would be a more reliable climbing domestique.

If Wiggins doesn't win it won't be because his domestiques couldn't do the job asked of them.

Actually it will be because the domestiques didn't do what people here thought they would PLUS Wiggins not delivering when isolated. It'll happen. It's on the cards.

Are you Tasmanian? Porte's cousin by any chance? Hop off his nuts a second and come back to planet earth. Best GT rider of this generation and Porte as a domestique was USELESS. Absolutely out of touch. Drop the 'I wasn't supposed to race there' line. It doesn't cut it. He did nothing other than in the chrono. Hernandez, Novarro and Sorensen were more useful than Porte was climbing. But you go one further and foolishly mention Szymd, arguably the best climbing domestique going around who has no GC ambitions. Who has actually worked hard for Basso and Nibali. Then doubled up at the Tour. Difference is his efforts in measure to Porte. Only a Sky fan or idiot misplacing their patriotism talks Porte up. Hear them all the time on SBS in Australia.

Rogers is useless over three weeks. Useless climbing. He's versatile, but at HTC, for Cavendish. Always has been. His record says so. Porte is no better. So who do Sky have then climbing wise who can match Kloden and Franck? Really and back it up with GT results. Bruyneel's squad has multiple podium places in GT's against some of the biggest names racing. That's excluding Andy, the guy who will be the leader. Sky have Froome and Wiggins...their results don't even match Kloden's. They haven't proven they can out climb him...the second super domestique! Bahahaha! Kloden was Shack's leader last year...you'd know this if you watched cycling and can read between the lines. Inference. I knew this last year, he fell, injuries stopped that. Bruyneel admitted after the Tour their aim had always been Kloden...was obvious. Oh I forgot he's been out of form for 5 years. Yeah, 2009 was a real bummer of a Tour right? His form there was SUPERIOR to Wiggins. He also worked as a domestique and only just finished behind him.

That list of climbers I dropped. That's where Rogers and Porte will finish at the end of the third weeks climbing stages comparatively. They'll fade. Uran and Froome are it. Fuglsang, Monfort, Gerdemann and Zubeldia are all on the preliminary Radioshack squad and equal or slightly better than your two wonder climbers. Rogers is good over a week. Not three. He falls 50% of the time. Gosh, I wouldn't want to be near him! So the Shack is more than a match for Siutsou, Rogers and Porte. Uran raced the Giro hard...that leaves Froome and Wiggins climbing skill versus Andy and Franck Schleck pulled by Kloden. Hmmmnnn...yes, I can see the two guys who couldn't beat Cobo, in the weakest Vuelta field in a long time, beating these three in the high mountains during the third week! Bag him out all you want, HE DENIED Sky a GT. He beat your super big two climbers...Cobo of all people. Yeah, everyone is running scared!!! He's also got one of the greatest riders of this generation on his team...Valverde. You might have heard of him. He won a Vuelta, against strong competition...Basso, Evans and Samu. You probably forgot that while fapping to the team Sky poster...don't worry, Richie loves guys like you.

Keep trolling champ and sniffing the glue. Get back to me with real GT results, not Dauphine Libere premature performances. Over three weeks, Sky need more climbers. Fact. Cav needs to go, so to does Eisel. Wiggins will bleed time if Andy Schleck goes hard. Oh and there are plenty of other superior GC climbers. Sky's train over one week DOES NOT EQUATE to three weeks. You'll see next month.

Cav gets my sympathy. He's the real talent. Sending him is appeasement. You're admitting you think Wiggins will choke and not deliver on the hype. Sending Cav is a guarantee of at least a few stage wins to console yourself over. It's all or nothing. Ask Armstrong...Wiggins should have figured that out by now, after all he's basing all his moves off the Armstrong play book. Ask BMC if they're taking Thor? There is your answer. Psychological tell. You'd suck at poker, just like the Sky management lackeys. They read like an open book

 

[Galic Ho]

Fuglsang is the only one even debatable there. Horner is easily stronger than the other two. What is going on with Radioshack? Has Bruyneel completely lost it? Horner should have bailed like Leipheimer did instead of staying with this disastrous team.

Mentality. Look at the psychological traits of the team. They've been planning how they will approach the Tour. Yes, last year they couldn't not take Horner. This year is a different story.

Ask yourself why did Levi leave the team between seasons? Is Horner or anything involving those two involved in that decision? Yes, probably very high oh Levi's list of reasons to leave. What does that reveal about Horner's character? Does it make him slightly predictable? Kind of, but the bigger tell is when you factor in Chris Horner's big mouth last season. "Second best climber in the world" after Contador. At a then 39 years of age.

So what changed between now and then? Two teams merged. Franck and Andy Schleck showed up. One of whom IS the second best climber in the world when on form. Now the best climber historically who will line up at the Tour. Horner is too unpredictable. I'd wager a lot of the garbage in the press has been the team messing with other people's heads. Horner not going was probably partly form, not knowing how a 40 year old is and then in part due to his personality. He's worked for Cadel and ironically Lance, but given a sniff of glory after, he's chosen himself EVERY time. I'm not judging that, but if Andy Schleck is the team captain undisputedly, which history suggests he will/should be, then that kind of descension in the ranks from a key climbing domestique isn't good. Much safer to place Monfort, Gerdemann and Fuglsang on the preliminary team. They're 100% guaranteed to work for the team. Kloden is a no brainer. With a clearly superior GC rider on the team, he's loyal. Very much so. He just needs to be put in his place by them.

Personally I see the Schleck camp having made the call on Horner.

 

[CQmanager]

Mentality. Look at the psychological traits of the team. They've been planning how they will approach the Tour. Yes, last year they couldn't not take Horner. This year is a different story.

Ask yourself why did Levi leave the team between seasons? Is Horner or anything involving those two involved in that decision? Yes, probably very high oh Levi's list of reasons to leave. What does that reveal about Horner's character? Does it make him slightly predictable? Kind of, but the bigger tell is when you factor in Chris Horner's big mouth last season. "Second best climber in the world" after Contador. At a then 39 years of age.

So what changed between now and then? Two teams merged. Franck and Andy Schleck showed up. One of whom IS the second best climber in the world when on form. Now the best climber historically who will line up at the Tour. Horner is too unpredictable. I'd wager a lot of the garbage in the press has been the team messing with other people's heads. Horner not going was probably partly form, not knowing how a 40 year old is and then in part due to his personality. He's worked for Cadel and ironically Lance, but given a sniff of glory after, he's chosen himself EVERY time. I'm not judging that, but if Andy Schleck is the team captain undisputedly, which history suggests he will/should be, then that kind of descension in the ranks from a key climbing domestique isn't good. Much safer to place Monfort, Gerdemann and Fuglsang on the preliminary team. They're 100% guaranteed to work for the team. Kloden is a no brainer. With a clearly superior GC rider on the team, he's loyal. Very much so. He just needs to be put in his place by them.

Personally I see the Schleck camp having made the call on Horner.

BS .... Dont want to turn this into some kind of Clinic debate but it is obvious the Hog needs trusted riders for the tour and Horner is not one of them. Perhaps if Andy was on form and ready for the job, he would use him but since some special treatments will be needed to deliver results, Horner is not invited to the party.

 

[Galic Ho]

BS .... Dont want to turn this into some kind of Clinic debate but it is obvious the Hog needs trusted riders for the tour and Horner is not one of them. Perhaps if Andy was on form and ready for the job, he would use him but since some special treatments will be needed to deliver results, Horner is not invited to the party.

Can a mod please slap this guy in the face with an infraction? He has clearly read my post, said it's BS and then completely contradicted himself there afterwards. He's trolling. Worse, an obvious troll. The alternative is even worse. This type of misrepresentation is only bettered by changing quotations.

I love the part where you state Horner is not going because 'The Hog needs trusted riders." That's where you're trolling genius. I clearly described that and gave examples. Horner is not going because he cannot be trusted as a domestique with the Schleck's as team leaders. That and his form. They are the only two factors. The form of the Schleck's is not a prerequisite. When haven't they been on form the last four years in July? They're the givens...the guarantees to deliver. Read between the lines and see what people are really doing and saying, not what you're limited perception and some deceitful PR statements are suggesting.

I never mentioned the Clinic or inferred it. You however did. "Special treats"...nice, nice. Trolling and contradicting yourself again. As I said, can a mod please take their selective blinkers off and deal with people like this? It gets tiring making a post and then returning to find someone calling you a BS artist only to contradict themselves by stating almost exactly what you did and then subtly adding in their own discreet sledge of your post (Clinic).

If I wanted to talk about Horner, the best place would the Clinic, ironically. Nice trolling wannabe.

 

[ansimi]

i am curious about one thing, with costa's performance in suisse if he keeps it up what could be his role in the tour?

last year he had a free role but the team didn't have piti and cobo for GC but he is just going so well atm the moment that maybe unzue will have him as some sort of backup plan as cobo isn't the most reliable rider around and piti is yet to prove himself to the max this season.

I think Movistar tends to place a lot of value on stage wins vs. a top 10 or top 5 GC so Costa's strengths are likely to be used. He seems to have really good race-sense so I'd let him take his chances.

Is Cobo really doing the Tour?

 

[greenedge]

The thing is that in fact Fuglsang and Monfort got accustomed to work on any terrain whereas Haimar is still a rider of the Tour top-15 and, thus, his spot is undisputed. Again, having 7 climbers out of 9 is a big risk. Probably Bruyneel chose one more flat/hilly gregario in addition to Jens and Fabi more.

I do not see how having 7 mountain riders is a big risk. Cancellara and Voigt can protect the leaders and Kloden, Fuglsang, Monfort and even Zubeldia, Rast and Gallopain would all provide support on the flats ( if chosen ). Horner would not have added to their capability on the flats.

 

[Parrulo]

I think Movistar tends to place a lot of value on stage wins vs. a top 10 or top 5 GC so Costa's strengths are likely to be used. He seems to have really good race-sense so I'd let him take his chances.

Is Cobo really doing the Tour?

Movistar without piti yes, movistar with piti is an entirely different thing. just check the 08 tour and vuelta and the 09 vuelta which are the last 3 GT's movistar rode having piti on the team

 

[Froome19]

I do not see how having 7 mountain riders is a big risk. Cancellara and Voigt can protect the leaders and Kloden, Fuglsang, Monfort and even Zubeldia, Rast and Gallopain would all provide support on the flats ( if chosen ). Horner would not have added to their capability on the flats.

He said 7 climbers out of the 9 that means that Rast and Gallopin wouldnt be chosen as will most likely to occur.

 

[airstream]

I do not see how having 7 mountain riders is a big risk. Cancellara and Voigt can protect the leaders and Kloden, Fuglsang, Monfort and even Zubeldia, Rast and Gallopain would all provide support on the flats ( if chosen ). Horner would not have added to their capability on the flats.

Cancellara has his own ambitions related to TT. Even a starry team always need 2-3 guys with zero ambitions that's why 3 years ago Bruyneel took Rast, Muravyev and Paulinho. All 3 were weaker than Horner but they were suited a team design better. So I expect Rast / Gallopin too.

 

[CQmanager]

Can a mod please slap this guy in the face with an infraction? He has clearly read my post, said it's BS and then completely contradicted himself there afterwards. He's trolling. Worse, an obvious troll. The alternative is even worse. This type of misrepresentation is only bettered by changing quotations.

I love the part where you state Horner is not going because 'The Hog needs trusted riders." That's where you're trolling genius. I clearly described that and gave examples. Horner is not going because he cannot be trusted as a domestique with the Schleck's as team leaders. That and his form. They are the only two factors. The form of the Schleck's is not a prerequisite. When haven't they been on form the last four years in July? They're the givens...the guarantees to deliver. Read between the lines and see what people are really doing and saying, not what you're limited perception and some deceitful PR statements are suggesting.

I never mentioned the Clinic or inferred it. You however did. "Special treats"...nice, nice. Trolling and contradicting yourself again. As I said, can a mod please take their selective blinkers off and deal with people like this? It gets tiring making a post and then returning to find someone calling you a BS artist only to contradict themselves by stating almost exactly what you did and then subtly adding in their own discreet sledge of your post (Clinic).

If I wanted to talk about Horner, the best place would the Clinic, ironically. Nice trolling wannabe.

You still dont get it. I wasnt talking about being trusted as domestique helping Schlecks but trusted as keeping his mouth shut. You know nothing about the Hog or cycling do you? Just wait for Andy and Klodi to fly up the HC mountain. Do you think Johan has some magic training methods that will turn rider who's getting dropped on Cat 3 climb into a GT contender in 3 weeks? He doesnt have very many options thats why he will take Popo over Horner anytime because he is "trusted" rider.

 

[gustienordic]

Cancellara has his own ambitions related to TT. Even a starry team always need 2-3 guys with zero ambitions that's why 3 years ago Bruyneel took Rast, Muravyev and Paulinho. All 3 were weaker than Horner but they were suited a team design better. So I expect Rast / Gallopin too.

Cancellara and Gallopin are the only riders I think that will do well

 

[karlboss]

OPQS long list
Dario Cataldo, Sylvain Chavanel, Gerald Ciolek, Dries Devenyns, Kevin De Weert, Bert Grabsch, Levi Leipheimer, Tony Martin, Jerome Pineau, Gert Steegmans, Matteo Trentin, Stijn Vandenbergh, Peter Velits

 

[Gloin22]

OPQS long list
Dario Cataldo, Sylvain Chavanel, Gerald Ciolek, Dries Devenyns, Kevin De Weert, Bert Grabsch, Levi Leipheimer, Tony Martin, Jerome Pineau, Gert Steegmans, Matteo Trentin, Stijn Vandenbergh, Peter Velits

Highlighted shoul go to tour imo. It's a call up-between Deveyns and Frenchie Pineau.

I'd prefer Deveyns, but Pinaeu as French might have edge there.

 

[El Pistolero]

Matteo Trentin
Levi Leipheimer
Jerome Pineau
Sylvain Chavanel
Tony Martin
Dries Devenys
Peter Velits
Gert Steegmans
Gerald Ciolek


^ That would be my pick.