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Trailer for the new documentary on Paul Kimmage

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Mar 25, 2013
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pmcg76 said:
Just finished watching, as a documentary it was pretty good but if you already know Kimmage, his story and all the other folks featured, you ain't going to learn anything new or insightful. Probably great for the less informed.

It is very much a personal profile of Kimmage rather than offering any actual insight into doping, there is even very little on Paul's opinion on SKY/Froome for example. Strange considering how much they feature.

What will you learn watching Rough Rider? Paul Kimmage is a skpetic and has a conflicted relationship with the sport. But then who didn't know that already.

That's pretty much the summary of it.

Nothing new of note for the regular cycling follower. Still worth a watch.
 
May 26, 2010
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pmcg76 said:
It is very much a personal profile of Kimmage rather than offering any actual insight into doping, there is even very little on Paul's opinion on SKY/Froome for example. Strange considering how much they feature.

The lawyers would have pulled most of that from the final edit. I have no doubt Kimmage voiced his opinion, but without proofs that can stand up in court producers cant afford to go down that road. This was not a Kimmage production. It is a wildfirefilms production and their a$$es are on the line financially and legally.

Very interesting reading some of the #roughrider comments on twitter. Many voiced opinions, newly formed from watching roughrider, about Wiggins, Froome, Kelly and Roche......
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
The lawyers would have pulled most of that from the final edit. I have no doubt Kimmage voiced his opinion, but without proofs that can stand up in court producers cant afford to go down that road. This was not a Kimmage production. It is a wildfirefilms production and their a$$es are on the line financially and legally.

Very interesting reading some of the #roughrider comments on twitter. Many voiced opinions, newly formed from watching roughrider, about Wiggins, Froome, Kelly and Roche......

Kimmage said that himself about the lawyers having influence on it.

I also checked twitter last night and the show was a big hit. It was the No.1 trending over here at one point. A few friends of mine who don't have the slightest interest in the sport were telling me today they thought it was excellent.

That seems to be the general consensus in what I've read regarding the reaction to it.
 
Benotti69 said:
The lawyers would have pulled most of that from the final edit.

Or - and I may be going out on a limb here - it wasn't the story being told. A Rough Ride wasn't about naming and shaming individuals and while Rough Rider isn't exactly a film of the book, it does seem the makers sought to reproduce elements of the book, stories from the book as well as Kimmage's passion and anger. They told the story of the book, and the story of the consequences of the book. The story of whether Sky are doping or not, that was not this film.
 
May 26, 2010
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fmk_RoI said:
Or - and I may be going out on a limb here - it wasn't the story being told. A Rough Ride wasn't about naming and shaming individuals and while Rough Rider isn't exactly a film of the book, it does seem the makers sought to reproduce elements of the book, stories from the book as well as Kimmage's passion and anger. They told the story of the book, and the story of the consequences of the book. The story of whether Sky are doping or not, that was not this film.

I think fmk it was a combination of both. It would have taken from the story of Kimmage if their was a too much of the sky stuff, but i bet some bits they wanted to include, sky related, were pulled by lawyers.

It seems to have got a very positive response from the audience if twitter is anything to go by...
 
Sep 29, 2012
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fmk_RoI said:
Or - and I may be going out on a limb here - it wasn't the story being told. A Rough Ride wasn't about naming and shaming individuals and while Rough Rider isn't exactly a film of the book, it does seem the makers sought to reproduce elements of the book, stories from the book as well as Kimmage's passion and anger. They told the story of the book, and the story of the consequences of the book. The story of whether Sky are doping or not, that was not this film.

I agree.

IMO the title of the film pretty much explains its intent.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
The lawyers would have pulled most of that from the final edit. I have no doubt Kimmage voiced his opinion, but without proofs that can stand up in court producers cant afford to go down that road. This was not a Kimmage production. It is a wildfirefilms production and their a$$es are on the line financially and legally.

Very interesting reading some of the #roughrider comments on twitter. Many voiced opinions, newly formed from watching roughrider, about Wiggins, Froome, Kelly and Roche......

I think some of it was pulled, but it also delayed the launch because the "right of reply". Paul asked a couple of questions at a press conference but that is about it. Would think that Paul's excellent interview with Froome addressed much of that, opening the door for the broadcast.
 
May 26, 2010
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Race Radio said:
I think some of it was pulled, but it also delayed the launch because the "right of reply". Paul asked a couple of questions at a press conference but that is about it. Would think that Paul's excellent interview with Froome addressed much of that, opening the door for the broadcast.

I think Kimmage would've been on camera saying lots of stuff about sky during the TdF 2013. Over 100 hours shot on this documentary to be edited to 90mins. Lots of that 'Kimmage opinion' was not usable for lots of reasons.
 
Jul 25, 2014
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gooner said:
That's pretty much the summary of it.

Nothing new of note for the regular cycling follower. Still worth a watch.

15 mins in and it seems like a biography so far. I'm rather a fan of his so I'm biased though.
 
fmk_RoI said:
Or - and I may be going out on a limb here - it wasn't the story being told. A Rough Ride wasn't about naming and shaming individuals and while Rough Rider isn't exactly a film of the book, it does seem the makers sought to reproduce elements of the book, stories from the book as well as Kimmage's passion and anger. They told the story of the book, and the story of the consequences of the book. The story of whether Sky are doping or not, that was not this film.

I would agree with this, it was more the story of a man than a story about doping. There was quite a few bits from Rough Ride that were reproduced or referenced in the the film. Personally I thought Kimmage came across very well, better than I thought he would, but there are other people who have different views on that judging by a thread on an Irish website where a lot more posters would have seen the documentary

There were several moments when Kimmage would be watching the Tour or sitting in on a Press conference and you were just waiting to hear what he thought and then it would just show him walking off without any words. You were just thinking, c'mon give us the hardtalk we came to expect.

No mention either of whether Kimmage thought things had improved or not which I don't think would have invoked any lawsuits. No mention of changes in anti-doping procedures, no mention of doping evolution, power estimates, comparisons of times with Armstrong etc. Just the oft repeated Kimmage is skeptical line.

As I said last night, a lot of people who may not have known much about Kimmage or history with Roche etc probably gained a huge amount of insight, but for those of us in the loop so to speak, it was more like re-inforcement of a watered down Kimmage. Still an enjoyable watch.
 
Oct 25, 2012
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pmcg76 said:
As I said last night, a lot of people who may not have known much about Kimmage or history with Roche etc probably gained a huge amount of insight, but for those of us in the loop so to speak, it was more like re-inforcement of a watered down Kimmage. Still an enjoyable watch.

agreed. I'm actually enjoying the interviews he has been doing since last week in the run up to this being aired a lot more. Or, well I'm certainly learning a lot more from them.
 
pmcg76 said:
I would agree with this, it was more the story of a man than a story about doping. There was quite a few bits from Rough Ride that were reproduced or referenced in the the film. Personally I thought Kimmage came across very well, better than I thought he would, but there are other people who have different views on that judging by a thread on an Irish website where a lot more posters would have seen the documentary

There were several moments when Kimmage would be watching the Tour or sitting in on a Press conference and you were just waiting to hear what he thought and then it would just show him walking off without any words. You were just thinking, c'mon give us the hardtalk we came to expect.

No mention either of whether Kimmage thought things had improved or not which I don't think would have invoked any lawsuits. No mention of changes in anti-doping procedures, no mention of doping evolution, power estimates, comparisons of times with Armstrong etc. Just the oft repeated Kimmage is skeptical line.

As I said last night, a lot of people who may not have known much about Kimmage or history with Roche etc probably gained a huge amount of insight, but for those of us in the loop so to speak, it was more like re-inforcement of a watered down Kimmage. Still an enjoyable watch.

well written pmcg76 - gold star - i appreciated that summary.
 
May 26, 2010
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Cillian Kelly @irishpeloton piece

http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/IrishCycling/News_Events/Events/Rough+Rider.htm

A friend contacted me before the documentary aired on RTE wondering whether there we'll learn anything new. As in, will there be any new doping revelations? But this is not what the program was about. There were no revelations about doping, because it wasn't about doping. It was about a man and his life long relationship with a sport that he loves and a sport that he hates.

Did we learn anything new?

We learned that Kimmage has a side to his character which doesn't come across in his writing or his tweets or when he is interviewed himself. We learned that cycling still has plenty of problems to which it is only beginning to face up to. We learned that Kimmage loves cycling, no matter how bitter or angry he is perceived to be. And perhaps we all learned a thing or two about ourselves and our own beliefs and attitudes towards doping in sport.
 
May 26, 2010
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pmcg76 said:
Well it is one of two possibilities as to who that rider is.

1989 PDM TdF team

Martin Earley
Sean Kelly
Raul Acala
Jorg Muller
Steven Rooks
Gert-Jan Theunisse
Marc Van Orsouw
Johannes Draaijer
 
You guys need to read clues better, all poor detectives here.

Only one full season with Draaijer at PDM.

Rode Switzerland and Le Tour that year.

Is Kimmage really likely to have called Mexico or wherever Alcala lives?

Rudy Dhaenans sadly died in a car accident years ago.
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
Dont think Kimmage is on talking terms with Kelly.

He said a few years back on the old Setanta programme he used to be on, when asked about Roche and Kelly, he said he can still speak a bit to Kelly.
 
May 26, 2010
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gooner said:
He said a few years back on the old Setanta programme he used to be on, when asked about Roche and Kelly, he said he can still speak a bit to Kelly.

IIRC he said at the Whistleblowers talk last year that him and Kelly are not on speaking terms
 
Mar 25, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
IIRC he said at the Whistleblowers talk last year that him and Kelly are not on speaking terms

That's probably true as of now. Kimmage wrote a piece criticising Kelly and his autobiography during the Tour last year.

That leaves Earley as the likely one.

He rode Suisse and the Tour in 89.
 

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