Transfers and Rumours 2018 > 2019

[yaco]

Re: Re:

(From the Lesser Known Races thread)

Stannard wins the Baby Lombardia and is immediately proted to the Mitchelton Scott WT team for Varesnine on Tuesday. Stannard could end up as good as Matthews.

What's the contractual-technical difference between "He's on a contract with the WT team from 2019, and will ride Varesine as a stagiare." and "He's on a contract with the WT team from now, and will ride Varesine"?

That he will ride Lombardia, Turkey or Guanxi as well.

I'm guessing he's not gonna ride Turkey, considering it starts on the same day as Varesine. He might be a talented rider, but I don't thing he's quite gotten the be in two locations at the same time business figured out.
If he starts Lombardia, would that make him the first rider to do the U23 and the Elite version of a race in the same year?

Stannard will definitely ride at least two of the Italian one day races this week, though I am unsure about his eligibility for Lombardia - MS is not riding Turkey, while the Hammer Series team will ride Guangxi.

 

[Vasilis]

Re:

I think you are allowed. Wellens even finished top 10 in one of those chinese races nobody cares about, as a stagiaire. Unless he was given a full pro contract from august on, which while in practice the same thing would I guess be technically different.

Well you are right there. In that case I don't know what the rules are, unless they have changed since 2012?

 

[search]

Wellens (also Ewan, for example) was on a "normal" contract, not as a stagiaire

edit: so is Stannard. So he can ride whatever race they want him to

http://www.uci.org/road/teams/TeamDetail/9813/1717/231

 

[Alexandre B.]

Giuseppe Acquadro wants two things: money and bore everyone.

 

[hfer07]

So Sosa & Bernal to be the next super domestiques for the remaining years of Froome & G......

why would Sosa ever prefer to go to SKY aside from money? He well knows he's going there to work for others while getting crumbs from whatever races aren't on SKY's priority.....

 

[Vasilis]

Re:

Wellens (also Ewan, for example) was on a "normal" contract, not as a stagiaire

edit: so is Stannard. So he can ride whatever race they want him to

http://www.uci.org/road/teams/TeamDetail/9813/1717/231

Ah yes, I now see that he signed from July 2012 onwards, but with a regular contract.

 

[Vasilis]

So Sosa & Bernal to be the next super domestiques for the remaining years of Froome & G......

why would Sosa ever prefer to go to SKY aside from money? He well knows he's going there to work for others while getting crumbs from whatever races aren't on SKY's priority.....

I'm not sure about that. Bernal already got his own opportunities this year as well. Yes, he was a domestique for the Tour, but it was only at the biggest race in the world that he didn't ride for himself, and he still secured a top 15. Why would a 21-year-old be a leader for a Grand Tour anyway, or even want to be? Sosa and Bernal can learn the ropes from the established riders some more and then lead a GT themselves. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Bernal goes to the Giro next year with a protected status.

 

[LaFlorecita]

So Sosa & Bernal to be the next super domestiques for the remaining years of Froome & G......

why would Sosa ever prefer to go to SKY aside from money? He well knows he's going there to work for others while getting crumbs from whatever races aren't on SKY's priority.....

Yeah and Sosa apparently picked Trek initially because he didn't want to play 2nd fiddle... So what changed? Is this boy really so easily swayed by money?

 

[Red Rick]

Step 381 of the "Destroy cycling by throwing money at it", complete.

On to step 382: "throw more money at it"

 

[MatParker117]

So Sosa & Bernal to be the next super domestiques for the remaining years of Froome & G......

why would Sosa ever prefer to go to SKY aside from money? He well knows he's going there to work for others while getting crumbs from whatever races aren't on SKY's priority.....

Here's a potential schedule for him:
Nationals
Abu Dhabi
Paris Nice
Coppi Bartali
Pais Vasco
Alps
Giro/Suisse
Burgos/Vuelta
Italian Classics


Plenty of opportunities for him potentially.

 

[WKA311]

So Sosa & Bernal to be the next super domestiques for the remaining years of Froome & G......

why would Sosa ever prefer to go to SKY aside from money? He well knows he's going there to work for others while getting crumbs from whatever races aren't on SKY's priority.....

Yeah and Sosa apparently picked Sky initially because he didn't want to play 2nd fiddle... So what changed? Is this boy really so easily swayed by money?

Probably just a young, naive guy who is easy to influence. Especially by a guy like Acquadro whos job it is to do such things and get money out of it.

I don't like the Acquadro - Team Sky connection at all. Could be really bad if this trend continues in the future.

 

[Red Rick]

Seriously, how can you believe Sky is a good career move?

 

[Red Rick]

So Sosa & Bernal to be the next super domestiques for the remaining years of Froome & G......

why would Sosa ever prefer to go to SKY aside from money? He well knows he's going there to work for others while getting crumbs from whatever races aren't on SKY's priority.....

Yeah and Sosa apparently picked Sky initially because he didn't want to play 2nd fiddle... So what changed? Is this boy really so easily swayed by money?

Probably just a young, naive guy who is easy to influence. Especially by a guy like Acquadro whos job it is to do such things and get money out of it.

I don't like the Acquadro - Team Sky connection at all. Could be really bad if this trend continues in the future.

Either other teams need to start getting these deals as well, or something has to be done about it.

 

[jaylew]

So Sosa & Bernal to be the next super domestiques for the remaining years of Froome & G......

why would Sosa ever prefer to go to SKY aside from money? He well knows he's going there to work for others while getting crumbs from whatever races aren't on SKY's priority.....

Does there even need to be another reason? Hard to blame him if there's a significant difference. I don't know the actual dollar amounts we're talking about but if we're being honest, I'd guess most of us as young people starting out with our career would choose 200k over 100k and just put up with a lesser situation for awhile.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Seriously, how can you believe Sky is a good career move?

Bernal won six races and signed a massive contract
Kwaitkowski won a monument, three other classics, three stage races and signed another likely big extension.
Poels has a monument and another bunch of wins


If your talented it can pay off big time.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Seriously, how can you believe Sky is a good career move?

Bernal won six races and signed a massive contract
Kwaitkowski won a monument, three other classics, three stage races and signed another likely big extension.
Poels has a monument and another bunch of wins


If your talented it can pay off big time.

It's *** stupid if you're not gonna have a free role in any race in the near future.

Poels winning LBL was hell freezing over. Kwiatkowski was specifically brought to lead classics. If you're a climber and you're not in the top 5 in the hierarchy there and sign anyway you don't really care about making something of your career you just want money now.

 

[Red Rick]

So Sosa & Bernal to be the next super domestiques for the remaining years of Froome & G......

why would Sosa ever prefer to go to SKY aside from money? He well knows he's going there to work for others while getting crumbs from whatever races aren't on SKY's priority.....

Does there even need to be another reason? Hard to blame him if there's a significant difference. I don't know the actual dollar amounts we're talking about but if we're being honest, I'd guess most of us as young people starting out with our career would choose 200k over 100k and just put up with a lesser situation for awhile.

The negative implied odds of tanking your career early are so much bigger than 100k it's not even funny.

 

[rick james]

Re:

Seriously, how can you believe Sky is a good career move?

Lol...bitter much

 

[CTQ]

As of today, Team Sky has 12 riders who are 30 years old and up. Brailsford are already thinking in the coming years when all these riders will be leaving, he will already have a good base of good guys.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re:

As of today, Team Sky has 12 riders who are 30 years old and up. Brailsford are already thinking in the coming years when all these riders will be leaving, he will already have a good base of good guys.

And all it took was obscene amounts of money. Amazing how every team doesn't do the same. Guess Brailsford must just be a genius.

 

[Squire]

Re: Re:

Seriously, how can you believe Sky is a good career move?

Bernal won six races and signed a massive contract
Kwaitkowski won a monument, three other classics, three stage races and signed another likely big extension.
Poels has a monument and another bunch of wins


If your talented it can pay off big time.

It's **** stupid if you're not gonna have a free role in any race in the near future.

Poels winning LBL was hell freezing over. Kwiatkowski was specifically brought to lead classics. If you're a climber and you're not in the top 5 in the hierarchy there and sign anyway you don't really care about making something of your career you just want money now.

If you're good enough it doesn't really matter. Your next contract can still be a big one at another team. Look at Landa, Porte, Uran, or the offers that Thomas got

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Seriously, how can you believe Sky is a good career move?

Bernal won six races and signed a massive contract
Kwaitkowski won a monument, three other classics, three stage races and signed another likely big extension.
Poels has a monument and another bunch of wins


If your talented it can pay off big time.

It's **** stupid if you're not gonna have a free role in any race in the near future.

Poels winning LBL was hell freezing over. Kwiatkowski was specifically brought to lead classics. If you're a climber and you're not in the top 5 in the hierarchy there and sign anyway you don't really care about making something of your career you just want money now.

If you're good enough it doesn't really matter. Your next contract can still be a big one at another team. Look at Landa, Porte, Uran, or the offers that Thomas got

They were established riders. Porte had stagnated, Landa was specifically brought in as a leader, and Uran got on board when Sky had existed one year and failed everywhere.

 

[Midnightfright]

The absolute last team I want Sosa to join but it can be decent for development. Take Egan as an example he has had a good year and winning in California is nothing to sniff your nose up at. Of course he has spent most of the year riding for others. At there age I wouldn't say that is a negative as such.

The counter point of course that Bernal would of done more leading another team, probably but his long-term GT prospects probably look brighter

 

[pastronef]

I´m susprised at Sosa signing with Sky. latest I heard it was Trek finally made a deal.

moaning aside, I think the stability of the Sky sponsor and the long range opportunities influenced the choice. they are shoving it with Bernal. people might not like it, but Sky has been on of the most stable sponsors since 2010 (even Abarca-Unzue changed sponsor, and look at Quickstep, they just found a title sponsor today)
Sky is going on and on, no sponsor changes, stable.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

The issue is not a general one about whether or not riders can improve their careers as well as their pay cheque at Sky. Some will, some won’t. What’s of interest is where a particular rider will fit into their machine, what he is being hired to do, where he will be in their hierarchy, what his alternatives would be.

For a classics rider like Kwiatkowski, an offer to be Sky’s leader in his target races plus a huge salary will not have presented him with a complicated decision. For a fringe GC rider who seems to have plateaued in his career and whose value as a leader is limited by inconsistency, a pile of money to join the train is usually very attractive and who knows, maybe Sky’s magic climbing aura will rub off too. The question is different for a young climbing/GC prospect.

Sky already have both firmly established leaders and a ridiculous number of touted climbing prospects. What’s more, they have already firmly financially committed to one of them in particular. On any other team in the peloton, Sosa is the big deal, the central prospect the team wants to develop. At Sky, he arrives at a team with the most successful GC rider in the peloton and the Tour holder dominating leadership roles, a load of more established train guys looking for some leadership opportunities and Bernal already guaranteed the pick of the races where a development prospect gets to lead. Then he gets to fight for the crumbs with Sivakov, Geoghegan Hart, Dunbar, Hayter etc, all of whom would also be the hyped prospect at almost any other team.

Now maybe Sosa is so good that none of that matters. He can reasonably think that he starts out behind Bernal but probably a little ahead of the other young guys in the hierarchy. He can also reasonably think that the older train riders may be more established now but won’t be an issue longer term. But if he turns out to be that good, he’d be a huge success anywhere and could be so faster elsewhere where he doesn’t have to climb over lots of guys in a pretty strict hierarchy first.