TRT - Testosterone Replacement Therapy

[Mrs John Murphy]

There is quite a lot of controversy about its usage in MMA and Boxing at the moment due to a number of fighters being able to use it to juice but with a TUE. What makes it more significant is that hypogonadism is a side-effect of steroid use.

Does anyone know if TRT is used by the peloton with/without a TUE or its usage outside of MMA/Boxing.

 

[Cyivel]

Enjoyed Tom 'Kong' Watson having a go at his opponent for using steroids and people in general after winning at the weekend.

 

[Benotti69]

There is quite a lot of controversy about its usage in MMA and Boxing at the moment due to a number of fighters being able to use it to juice but with a TUE. What makes it more significant is that hypogonadism is a side-effect of steroid use.

Does anyone know if TRT is used by the peloton with/without a TUE or its usage outside of MMA/Boxing.

If they can get away with using it it they will.

I would like to know what kind of TUEs Garmin have before a GT?

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Does anyone know if TRT is used by the peloton with/without a TUE or its usage outside of MMA/Boxing.

Chris Boardman retired from professional cycling when some medical condition required him to use TRT, and would cause him to test "positive", so I would assume that there was at that time no acceptable limit or TUE for the use of testosterone.

 

[Le breton]

.............
Does anyone know if TRT is used by the peloton with/without a TUE or its usage outside of MMA/Boxing.

May be you should ask Pedro Delgado as Dr Bellocq is dead and asking Bernard Hinault might be too risky

 

[Oldman]

Chris Boardman retired from professional cycling when some medical condition required him to use TRT, and would cause him to test "positive", so I would assume that there was at that time no acceptable limit or TUE for the use of testosterone.

Wasn't there acceptable "levels" in the 80's, 90's that so almost any rider justify topping off?

In the US it is becoming the Master's racing scourge as older farts have easy access. It's not legal but there are a few that can quietly justify it.

IMO it's OK to take it if your quality of life depends on it. Don't race.

 

[arjanh]

IMO it's OK to take it if your quality of life depends on it. Don't race.

Kinda like with EPO. Or any other substance, for that matter.

 

[DirtyWorks]

If they can get away with using it it they will.

I would like to know what kind of TUEs Garmin have before a GT?

I don't know how to make this any clearer, Ashenden's feud with the UCI has shown no TUE is needed. They just don't test for things a cyclist would use. There are many variations for never testing positive under the bio-passport.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Wasn't there acceptable "levels" in the 80's, 90's that so almost any rider justify topping off?

In the US it is becoming the Master's racing scourge as older farts have easy access. It's not legal but there are a few that can quietly justify it.

IMO it's OK to take it if your quality of life depends on it. Don't race.

If Master's are using it then you have to wonder about it at the elite levels.

It doesn't seem like it would be hard for a rider to get a TUE for it.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Me thinks there is a difference between synthetic and natural testosterone. I bet the good teams will know the difference. And to the 'testing' of course.

 

[mastersracer]

If Master's are using it then you have to wonder about it at the elite levels.

It doesn't seem like it would be hard for a rider to get a TUE for it.

This isn't true. You cannot get a TUE for testosterone simply because of functional hypogonadism of the sort that is diagnosed in most cases of declining testosterone in aging (most of which are low-normal range). There must be a defined etiology such as Bilateral Anorchia, Noonan’s Syndrome, etc. And you can't simply send a note from your doctor - all labwork must be submitted so a review committee can make their own diagnosis.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

This isn't true. You cannot get a TUE for testosterone simply because of functional hypogonadism of the sort that is diagnosed in most cases of declining testosterone in aging (most of which are low-normal range). There must be a defined etiology such as Bilateral Anorchia, Noonan’s Syndrome, etc. And you can't simply send a note from your doctor - all labwork must be submitted so a review committee can make their own diagnosis.

Didn't seem to stop Vitor Belfort, Chael Sonnen etc from getting TUEs for it.

 

[mastersracer]

Didn't seem to stop Vitor Belfort, Chael Sonnen etc from getting TUEs for it.

didn't realize they race bikes - what team are they riding for?

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Me thinks there is a difference between synthetic and natural testosterone. I bet the good teams will know the difference. And to the 'testing' of course.

Pharmaceutical testosterone is chemically and molecularly identical to mother nature's. The only difference at any level is the percentage of carbon that is carbon-13 vice carbon-12, and you'd need a gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer to measure that difference.

 

[mastersracer]

Pharmaceutical testosterone is chemically and molecularly identical to mother nature's. The only difference at any level is the percentage of carbon that is carbon-13 vice carbon-12, and you'd need a gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer to measure that difference.

well, there is the T/E ratio (via SIM) and stable isotope ratio mass spectrometry for follow up, but MR. Fearless appears not to know much about the details except his uncanny ability to sense the mere presence of a doper.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

Maybe if you were missing a testicle and asked really really really nicely.

 

[D-Queued]

Maybe if you were missing a testicle and asked really really really nicely.

In that case, I think that they double the BP flag.

Instead of 4x or 6x normal, you are allowed to have 8x or 12x normal to compensate for the loss.

You can look it up in Chapter 20 ('T' for Testosterone) of the UCI's Insider's Manual on Doping Control and Guide to Picking Champions.

Chapter 20 comes just before Chapter 22 ('V') where you can learn all about how to apply a Vrijman report.

Dave.

 

[blackcat]

Pharmaceutical testosterone is chemically and molecularly identical to mother nature's. The only difference at any level is the percentage of carbon that is carbon-13 vice carbon-12, and you'd need a gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer to measure that difference.

plant made sources can get you the right isotope formula.

most synthetic forms are from livestock

 

[blackcat]

Didn't seem to stop Vitor Belfort, Chael Sonnen etc from getting TUEs for it.

any anti aging clinic in SoCal does not require bs excuses.

they just ask do you wanna feel young, have a youthful libido, and trade in your wife for a younger model

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Pharmaceutical testosterone is chemically and molecularly identical to mother nature's. The only difference at any level is the percentage of carbon that is carbon-13 vice carbon-12, and you'd need a gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer to measure that difference.

Is it possible to spike your own T/E level with someone elses - human - testosterone, since pharmaceutical is detectable?

well, there is the T/E ratio (via SIM) and stable isotope ratio mass spectrometry for follow up, but MR. Fearless appears not to know much about the details except his uncanny ability to sense the mere presence of a doper.

Thanks for the heads up, you, as a mastersracer, must know a lot on T/E.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

didn't realize they race bikes - what team are they riding for?

Everyone knows that the TUE system is **** weak and rife for abuse at the elite level.

If MMA fighters are able to get TUEs which are approved by the local athletic commissions, despite everyone knowing that it is a short cut to doping, it doesn't seem that it would be hard for an elite athlete to get a TUE for TRT.

Is your own account based on personal experience of getting a TUE for TRT?

 

[mastersracer]

Everyone knows that the TUE system is **** weak and rife for abuse at the elite level.

If MMA fighters are able to get TUEs which are approved by the local athletic commissions, despite everyone knowing that it is a short cut to doping, it doesn't seem that it would be hard for an elite athlete to get a TUE for TRT.

Is your own account based on personal experience of getting a TUE for TRT?

that's beyond facile. My own account is based on being involved in cycling since the early 80s, starting and running teams, and doing due diligence everyone who holds a race license should do - understand the rules they race under and what they are signing when they sign a license. Unfortunately, it appears many of the people who post here not only do not participate in the sport but feel entitled to spout off on matters they know nothing about, such as facile comparisons between the Nevada athletic commission and USADA/WADA.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

The question is very simple - upon what are you basing your claims that TUEs can not be abused for TRT?
Experience? Have you tried to use TRT and been rebuffed?
Do you know people who tried to get a TUE for TRT?
How many cases do you know where TUE for TRT has been rejected?
How many TUEs do you know of that have been accepted for TRT?

Oldman suggested

In the US it is becoming the Master's racing scourge

Do you agree disagree and on what basis?

What about the 2012-13 Florida State Championship Series and accusations of doping there?

 

[mastersracer]

The question is very simple - upon what are you basing your claims that TUEs can not be abused for TRT?
Experience? Have you tried to use TRT and been rebuffed?
Do you know people who tried to get a TUE for TRT?
How many cases do you know where TUE for TRT has been rejected?
How many TUEs do you know of that have been accepted for TRT?

Oldman suggested



Do you agree disagree and on what basis?

What about the 2012-13 Florida State Championship Series and accusations of doping there?

Your deflection doesn't stop your comments from being ignorant. If a masters racer is using TRT they are doing so without a TUE - that's why we call it doping. It's cheating. Below are Joe Papp's comments from a few years ago on the subject. He knows a whole lot more than just about anyone else on this site about it...

"Seriously.

Plus an athlete with a genuine endocrine system failure that results in low testosterone can apply for a TUE, which, if granted, would allow them to train and race while still undergoing hormone replacement therapy. However, the standards that need to be met for the TUE to be approved are incredibly rigorous.

" It is extremely unlikely that a Therapeutic Use Exemption will be approved for "functional" hypogonadism (a diagnosis of hypogonadism based on low testosterone levels but without a defined etiology).

 The International Standard for Therapeutic Use Exemptions specifically states that "low-normal" levels of any hormone will not justify the granting of a TUE.

 USADA will not grant TUEs for testosterone to females, including Hormone Replacement Therapies that contain testosterone, because there are permitted therapeutic alternatives available.

 The use of testosterone as an anti-aging medication for men is not justification for a TUE. Similarly, generalized fatigue, slow recovery from exercise and a decreased libido are not, in isolation, justification
for the granting of a TUE for testosterone."

All those poor ol' masters with hormone deficiencies who want to train and race while using testosterone should browse over to http://www.usada.org/uploads/testost...guidelines.pdf and have their endocrinologist get to work.
__________________

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I note that you haven't answered the questions but are very quick with the name calling. Anyone would think you've got some funky hormone spikes going on there.

You've cited Joe Papp - where is the evidence to support Papp's assertions? To remind you:

Experience? Have you tried to use TRT and been rebuffed?
Do you know people who tried to get a TUE for TRT?
How many cases do you know where TUE for TRT has been rejected?
How many TUEs do you know of that have been accepted for TRT?

To add to that do you agree with Oldman's comments about TRT usage?