Truth versus opinion - it's not always the same thing

[theswordsman]

Some of you will be glad to hear this is my last post. I'm an Alberto Contador fan. I was already when he rode the Giro in 2008. At one point whichever live text I was following (while watching video online) during a sprint stage called out for bad poetry, so I made up this on the spot and they printed it.

Alberto drank beer on the beach
Thought the Giro was out of his reach
But the race needed names
So to Italy he came
A hill climbing lesson to teach

I remember when the race was over I thought that the hill climbing lesson never happened. I was way more impressed with the Sella stage wins that allowed him to marry his fiance after the race.

Anyway, since Saturday I've tried to convince people here that Contador's allergies have been well documented over the years, that he talks about them in off season interviews, usually when asked why he doesn't race the Giro, and that he doesn't use them as a convenient excuse when he loses - he talks about them after wins like the one at the Giro as well. For example, on Stage 14 of the Giro he had a very similar experience to the one Saturday at Criterium International. He lost power with two miles to go on a climb, and it cost him 45 seconds on Menchov. But he was riding on a broken elbow, and moved into second place, 5 seconds back after the stage, so he hardly needed convenient excuses.

Below is the quote from another thread that set me off. I was never a vocal Contador fan until during the Tour and after when Armstrong and his pals started talking trash. I've read a lot by and about Alberto since July, and I believe every word he's said.

Contador's "I was at the beach" didn't have an ounce of truth in it because his climbing at the 2008 Vuelta (where he made a point of stating he was in the form of his life) wasn't as good as at the 2008 Giro. And that's just one example.

Yeah. In the article cited below, you'll see that Contador and Macarena, his fiancee, paid for a hotel room at the beach from April 30 to May 4, 2008, a total of five days. The Giro invitation was rumored on the web May 3 and made official on May 4. Macarena presented the hotel bill to the journalist from AS.com, and said they couldn't use the last two days because of the phone call. So that means total beach time was three days, and Alberto said elsewhere that he wasn't ordered to take his bike along, but he did, and he rode three days.

So, on April 12 he had finished six tough days at Pais Vasco and put in an impressive performance, even with a bad tooth problem. When people put in six quality days of training, and then recover, they get even fitter. He didn't go to the beach until the eighteenth day after his victory, and he was only there three days. But he was there, and you should be ashamed of yourself for calling him a liar. The truth is out there, folks. Your memory about how great he was in the mountains at the Giro is also flawed. Like I said, I remember thinking I was wrong about him teaching a climbing lesson. I looked up his standings on each stage of the race - there were lots of breaks that stayed away, and he finished well behind the winner a lot. He pretty much won the race on the Stage to Time Trial, where he finished second while riding with the elbow fracture. He never won a stage.

The rest of this is all documentation. I hope a lot of you will read it, and get your facts before you set yourself up as experts and come up with conspiracy theories. Have a nice life. I'm out of here.

At the finish line in Tirano was a slim brunette called Macarena, Alberto Contador’s fiancée.

The girl, 23 years old, likeable and attractive, brought the bill from the Barceló Hotel in Chiclana (Cadiz), where she and Alberto were spending a few days when he told her he had to ride the Giro d’Italia.

“I brought it so everyone could verify that it’s true he was on vacation.” From April 30 to May 4.

“We had to leave with two days still paid.”

http://www.as.com/ciclismo/articulo...-playa-alberto/dasclm/20080601dasdaicic_5/Tes

The Madrileño had to interrupt his vacation to resume training and get the power back in his legs.

Have you come to grips yet with the idea of what awaits you in Italy?

What choice do I have! I was on a beach vacation with my fiancée, in Cadiz, when I received a call from Johan Bruyneel telling me that the Giro had included the team, and therefore, I had to ride. I’ve had to swap my swimming trunks and flip-flops for a jersey and bike shorts.

And, under the circumstances, did the call from your director seem like a practical joke?

A bit, yes, because at first I couldn't believe it. I was on vacation, hardly touching the bike, and they tell me I have to ride the Giro…

Right now I’m out of condition, although since the first stages of the Giro are flat maybe I can get into the rhythm of competition a little before we get to the mountains.

Are you really a long way from form, or can you get in shape in just a short time?

I’m far from it, and the sensations I have aren’t much better than the ones from the Vuelta al País Vasco. Last week, while I was on vacation, I only went out to ride three days, but on the same day Bruyneel called I packed the suitcases, came to Madrid, and this week I’ve done the best I could. My fiancée’s going to kill me…

Published May 7 Interview by Josu Garai, MARCA
http://www.albertocontadornotebook.info/giro2008pressroom.html


February 13, 2008 ASO announces Astana won't be invited to races.

VUELTA A CASTILLA Y LEÓN March 24 to 28 Contador won overall, mountainous stage 4, stage 1 (ITT).

VUELTA AL PAÍS VASCO April 7-12 Contador won overall, stage 6 (ITT), stage 1 (7 categorized climbs).

Benito Urraburu of Diaro Vasco spoke with Alberto the day after his victory in Basque Country.

Alberto Contador dominated the Vuelta al País Vasco from the first day in Legazpi. Yesterday he left Orio dressed in yellow, his face completely swollen by an abscess.

The winner of the 2008 Vuelta al País Vasco finished the race, and left for his home in Pinto as soon as possible with his fiancee and friends, after complying with post-race protocol: the podium, the doping control, and the press conference. The kilometers that he crossed in the car to Madrid let him forget the week’s tension, and to experience some relief.

How are you the day after winning the Vuelta al País Vasco?

I’m a mess. I have an enormous abscess. If the race had lasted one more day, I wouldn’t have finished it. I didn’t take any antibiotics, and this is what happened. From Saturday night to Sunday morning I spent almost all of the time wide awake. I fell half asleep at four o’clock in the morning and was quite annoyed. I’m worn out.

Why do you say you wouldn’t have been able to finish the race?

If I had to race right now I wouldn’t be able to fasten the helmet on. You get the idea of how my face is. I’m really uncomfortable.

When are you going to the dentist?

I’ve requested an appointment for today, to see what he says and what is the state of the inflammation. I don’t know what caused the toothache. These are things that don’t usually happen in a race, but sometimes they do happen to you. I had to go to the dentist, and was in bad shape.

http://www.albertocontadornotebook.info/media.html

Giro d'Italia May 10th

Astana's last-minute invite by RCS Sport has one-upped the Giro d'Italia over its bigger brother, the Tour de France. The Luxembourg-based team piloted by Johan Bruyneel team will likely be led by Spaniard Alberto Contador. The 2007 Tour de France champion will come to the race full of **** and vinegar thanks to the non-invite to the Tour and with form, on stunning display in the País Vasco.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/giro08/

Stage 1 TTT Astana finished 10 seconds back
Stage 2 Contador 18th, 10 seconds behind Ricco
Stage 3 Contador 60th, same time as Bennati
Stage 4 Contador 84th, same time as Cavendish
Stage 5 Contador 10th, 31 seconds behind Brutt
Stage 6 Contador 13th at 11'34 behind Priamo
Stage 7 Contador 8th 2'10" behind Bosisio
Stage 8 Contador 23rd same time as Ricco

Contador crashed and fractured his elbow

Stage 9 Contador 105th 4 seconds behind Bennati
Stage 10 ITT Contador 2nd 8 seconds behind Bruseghin
Stage 11 Contador 15th 3'53" behind Bertolini
Stage 12 Contador 78th same time as Bennati
Stage 13 Contador 57th 13 seconds behind Cavendish

Now 3rd in the GC, 6"59 behind Visconti

Stage 14 Contador 15th 9'33" behind Sella,
lost 45 seconds to Menchov when allergies ruined his climb 2 miles from finish

Stage 15 Contador 6th, 2'27" behind Sella

Contador now in Magia Rosa, 33 ahead of Ricco

Stage 16 Contador 4th, 22 seconds behind Pellizotti
Stage 17 Contador 17th 4 seconds behind Greipel
Stage 18 Contador 14th 7'51" behind Voigt
Stage 19 Contador 12th 6'21" behind Kiriyienka
Stage 20 Contador 5th 1'20" behind Sella
Stage 21 Contador 11th 39 seconds behind Pinotti

"Contador's visit to the radiologist today (Monday) revealed a fissure in the radius head of his left elbow," his Astana team said in a statement on Monday. "The fracture without dislocation stems from his Stage 8 crash from Rivisondoli to Tivoli (on Saturday).

"Though Contador was able to complete the stage and Sunday's Stage 9, the bruising and discomfort prompted a formal examination on the Giro d'Italia's first rest day. The x-rays showed that the fracture is stable and the 2007 Tour de France Champion has been cleared to ride Tuesday's time-trial."

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/broken-elbow-for-contador--16528

 

[BroDeal]

What is it with these people who throw hissy fits because they don't agree with a few posts on a forum?

Who cares if you cannot convince people that Contador has a history of allergies? Most of those people are just looking for something to deflect criticism of Armstrong's less than spectacular showing at the CI, or they are looking to get a rise out of people like you. Will you let them drive you off?

Maybe we should have a contest to guess the next member to blow up.

 

[patricknd]

i can't believe someone would dare to call a rider a liar, and on an internet forum! the horror of it all..........

 

[High Cotton]

I know you have the word -man in your name, but are you sure you aren't a child?

 

[Publicus]

Sounds like an Internet forum is not your cup of tea. You are not going to be able convince everyone of what you believe--some folks just want to believe what they believe and some folks are just contrarian. Instead of taking your ball and going home every time someone says something you either disagree with or consider flippant just remember where you are: an Internet forum. It's just not that serious.

 

[Ferminal]

What is it with these people who throw hissy fits because they don't agree with a few posts on a forum?

Who cares if you cannot convince people that Contador has a history of allergies? Most of those people are just looking for something to deflect criticism of Armstrong's less than spectacular showing at the CI, or they are looking to get a rise out of people like you. Will you let them drive you off?

Maybe we should have a contest to guess the next member to blow up.

I'm thinking I might chuck one next time The Arbiter comes back and ignores the truth.

Opinion is not permitted on a forum!

 

[filipo]

He'll be back.

 

[Ferminal]

He'll be back.

Already has once before.

 

[MacRoadie]

Ummmm, I think he's gone...

 

[franciep10]

I do like your posts because do research and find a lot of information but this is an internet forum which means different people with different opinions discussing cycling you're going to have disagreements you just don't let it bother you. Although I do disagree with what Issoisso said watching him at the 08 Giro was like watching a tree in hurricane you look out the window and the tree looks like it's gonna break then it comes back up then wwhen the hurricane is over you wonder how the hell did the tree not snap or uproot

 

[Wallace]

Wow--"I'm going to leave this place because I haven't been able to convince everyone that I'm right." Theswordsman must have been a lot of fun on the playground.

And by the way: I'm sick of all you people disagreeing with me, and I expect everyone to stop it right now. It's my ball and I'm going to take it home unless you do what I say.

 

[Bicicleta]

He'll be back.

Yea he will - and then when he has a fit he will delete all his posts again.... and again.

I still hope you find a job swordsman - its tough out there. Not a Contador fan - Liquigas is my fave team. Check it out - you might like the green.

 

[M Sport]

It takes all sorts to make an internet forum an interesting place. Take 99.5% of what is written here as opinion and you will keep your sense of humour and sanity intact.

Just because an internet jockey tells you that Contador can't possibly know which race he was climbing better at, doesn't mean said internet jockey is right. He can quote quote every insignificant piece of data he likes, most of it probably irrelevant and scientifically untested. It still makes his writings, opinion. No more, no less.

 

[BroDeal]

"Screw you guys. I'm going home!"

(Don't have time to switch the jersey to an Astana one.)

 

[franciep10]

"Screw you guys. I'm going home!"

(Don't have time to switch the jersey to an Astana one.)

Honestly just seeing Cartman in a Radio shack kit it never gets old

 

[Big GMaC]

Sounds like an Internet forum is not your cup of tea. You are not going to be able convince everyone of what you believe--some folks just want to believe what they believe and some folks are just contrarian. Instead of taking your ball and going home every time someone says something you either disagree with or consider flippant just remember where you are: an Internet forum. It's just not that serious.

Publicus, didn't you ever learn the internet is serious business?

 

[Publicus]

Publicus, didn't you ever learn the internet is serious business?

I did not realize that. All this time I've been approaching this place the wrong way. The internet IS serious business. And now I know. [Cue star with rainbow dust trail]

 

[issoisso]

So, because you disagree with someone on a discussion forum, you're not going to discuss. You're taking the ball and going home?

That's....


I don't even know what that is


Oh, right, it's your April Fools' joke. Have fun, then

 

[KazakhNeRider]

let's take it as 1 April's joke - he is really good at Internet multi-language browsing! wery helpfull! at least - don't stop your twitting!

 

[progressor]

Well swordsman your reasoning is utterly pathetic, but as internet forums are basically unhealthy s****holes anyway you're doing yourself a favour. Funny thing is you would happily give your proclaimed need for accuracy away for the purpose of slamming Armstrong - such is life

 

[ak-zaaf]

Relax man, it's the internets!

 

[Anonymous]

Good April fools joke...I hope.

 

[High Cotton]

So I guess it wasn't allergies after all?? Haha.

“Alberto concedes it wasn’t allergies that caused him to lose time on Saturday,” director Alain Sanquer said in a release issued following Contador’s surgery. “He was suffering real and deep pain in his right hand … unable to operate his brakes, his shifters or even to hold his bars. That made climbing nearly impossible. The problem wasn’t allergies, it wasn’t his legs; it was the hand.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...ontadors-season-in-doubt_110106#ixzz0jqiqsEmv

 

[TRDean]

So I guess it wasn't allergies after all?? Haha.

“Alberto concedes it wasn’t allergies that caused him to lose time on Saturday,” director Alain Sanquer said in a release issued following Contador’s surgery. “He was suffering real and deep pain in his right hand … unable to operate his brakes, his shifters or even to hold his bars. That made climbing nearly impossible. The problem wasn’t allergies, it wasn’t his legs; it was the hand.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...ontadors-season-in-doubt_110106#ixzz0jqiqsEmv

April Fools anyone...haha indeed.

 

[Publicus]

So I guess it wasn't allergies after all?? Haha.

“Alberto concedes it wasn’t allergies that caused him to lose time on Saturday,” director Alain Sanquer said in a release issued following Contador’s surgery. “He was suffering real and deep pain in his right hand … unable to operate his brakes, his shifters or even to hold his bars. That made climbing nearly impossible. The problem wasn’t allergies, it wasn’t his legs; it was the hand.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...ontadors-season-in-doubt_110106#ixzz0jqiqsEmv

The Alain Sanquer reference should have been a dead give away.