Tygarts angry reaction to UCI criiticism of his kangaroomcourt

[ValleyFlowers]

If the USADA had not won this battle in the court of public opinion, then it every chance the case would be mired in UCI and USADA claims and counterclaims, Armstrong lawyers in full battle mode, WADA involvement, and perhaps CAS. NIGHTMARE.

USADA first won the case, and it was the strength and quality of the evidence, that swung the 'court of public opinion' against Armstrong (and caused the UCI to turn and tuck tail).

Anything other than 'a slam dunk at the buzzer' (or winning goal in extra time?) by USADA and your vision of UCI and Armstrong legal team in full battle mode might have come true.

 

[ValleyFlowers]

... Armstrong has fought his innocents with rhetoric in the media, and with the public and has done very well with it. Someone finally beat him at his own game.

Well and truly said.

"His cancer had made him untouchable. It was his weapon and his shield." Paul Kimmage

 

[mountainrman]

"Intimidation" or in the multiple instances that he attempted it, "witness tampering" I believe is an unlawful act in the states.

As example - If as some assume - he pressured the Oakley rep to perjure herself, that becomes conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, which is a felony in pretty much any jurisdiction.
BUT - I sincerely doubt that could ever be proven, and even if she owned up to it, without a document or recording as proof of the coercion taking place, it would be unlikely to be proven. It could equally be argued with the pressure to change the story came from elsewhere, and (I suspect, do not know) that tape of lemond is not admissible evidence in a criminal trial unless it was clear to both parties it was being recorded, and there was some kind of chain of custody for it.

Jst saying to riders "unless you are high enough up the rankings we will cancel the contract with you next year , and - by the way - all the top riders take EPO" , is putting really nasty pressure on young riders but since cheating in sport is not a crime in the US, then however heinous that is, it is not a crime. Except perhaps in france? where doping is a crime, so conspiracy to dope is probably even more of a crime. Don't know enough about french law. Proof is another thing. With criminal trials "he says" "she says" is rarely enough to satisfy "beyond reasonable doubt"

So most of USPOSTALs "crimes" are civil "crimes" against cycling rules , not criminal crimes against US law.

If LA signed a deposition on risk of perjury to the Times Libel action, then in the UK authorities take a dim view of perjury, and there is no SOL to rule it out of time. So like Jeffrey Archer and Jonathan Aitken, La might find himself on sticky ground. Newspapers do not forgive and forget. Retribution is one of their stock in trades. Of course apologies for the numerous occasions they get it wrong go on page 10 at the bottom. False accusations get headlines., So I cannot wish the Sunday Times well.

 

[hiero2]

FACT CHECK: TRUE -- for example, from page 28 of the transcript that Race Radio nicely posted, Sparks concludes :

"Unfortunately, the appearance of conflict on the part of both organizations [UCI and USADA] creates doubts the charges against Armstrong would receive fair criticism in either forum."
. . .

While Sparks does note doubt, you take that out of context. In the footnote on the same page "if Armstrong's arguments before this Court are correct, there is no reason to believe he will not prevail before either USADA's panel, or on appeal to CAS."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/103348811/Sparks-Decision

. . .
Since Taking PEDS is not illegal in the US , neither is a conspiracy to do so.
Cheating is a civil matter for sports authorities not the law

Uh, wrong. PED - can you get any amphetamine? Ephedra? Can you go down to your drug store and buy EPO?

NO? Uh, why not? As a matter of fact, without a doctor's scrip, you won't be able to buy many of the asthma drugs that are used, nor many of the steroids, and you'll have a hard time finding legal sources for thyroid. Because it is illegal to sell or dispense controlled drugs. As for unethically prescribing medicine that is not for the health benefit of the patient - more legal problems, and potential for medical association problems, and state licensing issues.

There are legal ones. Granted. But your statement by itself is not true.

As for cheating being a matter for the sports governing body? Uh, wrong again. Fix a horse race? Busted. Fix a fight? Busted! Cheating in many forms IS illegal, and not just a matter for sports authorities. Again, your blanket statement, as it stands, is not true.

 

[mountainrman]

While Sparks does note doubt, you take that out of context. In the footnote on the same page "if Armstrong's arguments before this Court are correct, there is no reason to believe he will not prevail before either USADA's panel, or on appeal to CAS."
http://www.scribd.com/doc/103348811/Sparks-Decision




Uh, wrong. PED - can you get any amphetamine? Ephedra? Can you go down to your drug store and buy EPO?

NO? Uh, why not? As a matter of fact, without a doctor's scrip, you won't be able to buy many of the asthma drugs that are used, nor many of the steroids, and you'll have a hard time finding legal sources for thyroid. Because it is illegal to sell or dispense controlled drugs. As for unethically prescribing medicine that is not for the health benefit of the patient - more legal problems, and potential for medical association problems, and state licensing issues.

There are legal ones. Granted. But your statement by itself is not true.

As for cheating being a matter for the sports governing body? Uh, wrong again. Fix a horse race? Busted. Fix a fight? Busted! Cheating in many forms IS illegal, and not just a matter for sports authorities. Again, your blanket statement, as it stands, is not true.

You can be certain if there was a simple case to answer it would have been prosecuted by now. The "smoking gun" for fixing a fight is evidence of payment made for fixing it to the one in position to alter the outcome by those who stood to gain , or unusual betting patterns on the event.

I have to admit - I do not understand the laws here - in the UK someone faced criminal prosecution for allegedly fixing "who wants to be a millionaire", by having someone in the room whispering answers to him. I have no idea what law was being broken in that instance.

 

[eyemgh]

Dude, your argument is severely drifting. THIS IS NOT A US COURT LEGAL MATTER. It is a very clear case of doping. He is being sanctioned by the governing bodies that oversee the very clear cut rules regarding doping of a US licensed cyclist. Any issues related to violation of US law are side matters.

If you want to discuss or illuminate, please go ahead.

If you want to obfuscate, please go AWAY.

 

[skidmark]

As example - If as some assume - he pressured the Oakley rep to perjure herself, that becomes conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, which is a felony in pretty much any jurisdiction.
BUT - I sincerely doubt that could ever be proven, and even if she owned up to it, without a document or recording as proof of the coercion taking place, it would be unlikely to be proven. It could equally be argued with the pressure to change the story came from elsewhere, and (I suspect, do not know) that tape of lemond is not admissible evidence in a criminal trial unless it was clear to both parties it was being recorded, and there was some kind of chain of custody for it.

Jst saying to riders "unless you are high enough up the rankings we will cancel the contract with you next year , and - by the way - all the top riders take EPO" , is putting really nasty pressure on young riders but since cheating in sport is not a crime in the US, then however heinous that is, it is not a crime. Except perhaps in france? where doping is a crime, so conspiracy to dope is probably even more of a crime. Don't know enough about french law. Proof is another thing. With criminal trials "he says" "she says" is rarely enough to satisfy "beyond reasonable doubt"

So most of USPOSTALs "crimes" are civil "crimes" against cycling rules , not criminal crimes against US law.

Good to see that you finally, if unintentionally, responded to 131313s assertion that anti-doping regulatory bodies should have a different standard of proof than federal courts. Basically everything you say above justifies the necessity of USADA being able to compile and present the evidence against Armstrong in the way that they have. I'm glad you've made his case for him, and have separated it from the rest of your drifting argument.

 

[Benotti69]

In response to Armstrong's legal challenge to USADA's standing to press its case, U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks affirmed that the USADA protocol—neutral arbitrators in an open forum, weighing evidence that must meet a standard of "clear and convincing"—conforms to due process.

In accepting a license to compete from USA Cycling, Armstrong consented to those very disciplinary procedures.

And as an elite triathlete after he retired from cycling, he remained subject to USADA's jurisdiction until Aug. 23, when he was banned.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1206183/6/index.htm

In case you forgot

@Armstrong tweeted, "Great to hear that @usada is investigating some of @si's claims. I look forward to being vindicated."

 

[summerhill]

It is odd that Mountainman is posting so prolifically all of a sudden. It's odd too that he claims to live in the North UK, when I've never heard anyone living in either Scotland, Northern England or Northern Ireland that would refer to themselves as living in North UK or Northern UK.

In another post you've talked in terms of felonys. FELONY
Felony is a past term used for serious crimes such as rape or murder, though is still used in the USA. No such thing in English Law.

And you've talked in terms of UK courts. Scotland has a proudly and wholly separate and independent legal system There are no UK courts. There are English & Welsh Courts. And there are Scottish courts.

But then previously Lauralyn was in Caerphilly with the Tour of Britain, and the same day on a train in Belgium reading a German Newspaper? And Lauralyn had time to post as much as Mountainman does, and Lauralyn's style and content and modus operandi weren't dissimilar.

Just, odd and rather like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Went_the_Day_Well? or am I having too many caffeine pills?

 

[Hugh Januss]

So most of USPOSTALs "crimes" are civil "crimes" against cycling rules , not criminal crimes against US law.

Now you are coming around.
That is exactly why the arbitration panel as called for in the rules which USADA enforces for USAC is the proper venue for this doping case to be heard. Lance plead guilty by refusing arbitration and that is the end of that.
UCI tried to insert themselves where they didn't belong (I don't know exactly why, but I have some good ideas).
Trials for the legal crimes like perjury, witness tampering, tax evasion, drug smuggling, coercion etc. may, or may not be still to follow. A courtroom will be the proper venue for this.

 

[Velodude]

For the record, my name is Mike and I live in Northern UK. until this last month I have not been on cycling forums at all. I am a keen ultra mountain runner, and bike for fun, I no longer race at either, my career cut short by too many injuries, and have watched pro cycling for twenty years- I also know a considerable amount about aerobic performance and I know/ knew a lot of top class athletes, and have been on training camps with them. I saw Riis at Lanzarote on a camp the year before he won TDF, and I did not like him then ! My pinup is Nioole Cooke who I saw race to victory near my home in the commonwealths,And it hurts me to see what has happened to cycling and womens cycling even more.

Who you think I am, I have no idea. - I can assure you I am not.

I accuse you of being "KingsMountain" who posted in support of Armstrong, mainly expressing legal opinions, from January 2012 to September 2012 and thereafter discontinued posting.

In October 2012. the month following the last post of "KingsMountain", "mountainrman" emerged as a new poster again spouting legal opinions in support against Armstrong's non judicial treatment.

You use US not UK legal banter but now claim you are from "Northern UK"! Very unusual, is that Scotland or Northern England?

And the term "commonwealths" for the CG's is new and out of useage for an Englishman or Scotsman.

PS:
Just read Summerhill's post who was on to the suspicions of mountainrman's real country of residence.

BTW, Kings Mountain is a well known South Carolina battlefield during the American Revolutionary War.

 

[SlowtwitchLeaks]

I'm pretty sure it's Dan Empfield, owner of slowtwitch.com

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18836

 

[Cimacoppi49]

It isn't a simple conspiracy case. It's actually a very complex conspiracy case, with many actors, money streams etc.

You can be certain if there was a simple case to answer it would have been prosecuted by now. The "smoking gun" for fixing a fight is evidence of payment made for fixing it to the one in position to alter the outcome by those who stood to gain , or unusual betting patterns on the event.

I have to admit - I do not understand the laws here - in the UK someone faced criminal prosecution for allegedly fixing "who wants to be a millionaire", by having someone in the room whispering answers to him. I have no idea what law was being broken in that instance.

 

[Velodude]

I'm pretty sure it's Dan Empfield, owner of slowtwitch.com

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18836

Or Dan Empfield is both "KingsMountain" and "mountainrman".

Just read a "what's your favorite" interview with Mr. Empfield.

He lists as his interests "early American history" (1780 Kings Mountain battlefield?) and for the running component training for triathlons - running up mountain trails.

He should also be careful of spelling when masquerading as a Briton. "Practise" (US) as a noun in UK is "practice".

 

[blackcat]

velodude exposes a sockpuppet(s) methinks.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

 

[Bosco10]

Or Dan Empfield is both "KingsMountain" and "mountainrman".

Just read a "what's your favorite" interview with Mr. Empfield.

He lists as his interests "early American history" (1780 Kings Mountain battlefield?) and for the running component training for triathlons - running up mountain trails.

He should also be careful of spelling when masquerading as a Briton. "Practise" (US) as a noun in UK is "practice".

Can the moderators check the IP address to see if it originates from the UK?

 

[red_flanders]

Can I mambo dogface to the banana patch?

Give that kid a special test...get him outta here...

 

[eyemgh]

Who cares. He got the beat down, quit posting to this thread and it was sinking into oblivion. It's the fate everyone who trys to post those cr*p arguments should expect. Let the thread die.