Men's U23 races and talents

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

I've been a bit disappointed by the number of top prospects either not entering the BabyGiro or having to pull out due to crashes etc.

 

[DNP-Old]

Re:

Is there anything Riabushenko can't do? Sprint, TT, climb...

Being so versatile isn't necessarily a good thing though.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Is there anything Riabushenko can't do? Sprint, TT, climb...

Being so versatile isn't necessarily a good thing though.

Tiesj say hello.....

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

Is there anything Riabushenko can't do? Sprint, TT, climb...

Being so versatile isn't necessarily a good thing though.

Tiesj say hello.....

Good example, hasn't won anything as of today. It's probably better to be elite in one regard, than to be very good in several. Felline is another one. Probably one of the best riders in the entire peloton, but his chances of ever winning anything big are slim.

 

[Samamba]

Re: Re:

Is there anything Riabushenko can't do? Sprint, TT, climb...

Being so versatile isn't necessarily a good thing though.

Tiesj say hello.....

Good example, hasn't won anything as of today. It's probably better to be elite in one regard, than to be very good in several. Felline is another one. Probably one of the best riders in the entire peloton, but his chances of ever winning anything big are slim.

Tiesj didn't win a lot in the u23 ranks either, Riabushenko is winning a lot.
Plus, a lot of riders are versatile in the u23 ranks. Look at Sivakov, Powless, Costa and Lambrecht for example. Riabushenko is fast and good enough to win as a pro.

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

Is there anything Riabushenko can't do? Sprint, TT, climb...

Being so versatile isn't necessarily a good thing though.

Tiesj say hello.....

Good example, hasn't won anything as of today. It's probably better to be elite in one regard, than to be very good in several. Felline is another one. Probably one of the best riders in the entire peloton, but his chances of ever winning anything big are slim.

Tiesj didn't win a lot in the u23 ranks either, Riabushenko is winning a lot.
Plus, a lot of riders are versatile in the u23 ranks. Look at Sivakov, Powless, Costa and Lambrecht for example. Riabushenko is fast and good enough to win as a pro.

We'll see. There have been a lot of examples of Eastern Europeans who killed it in those ranks, but didn't at all live up to the expectations. Will be key for him to sign with a proper team.

 

[Samamba]

Re: Re:

We'll see. There have been a lot of examples of Eastern Europeans who killed it in those ranks, but didn't at all live up to the expectations. Will be key for him to sign with a proper team.

You're right about that but I just don't think that the comparison with Tiesj is right. Tiesj always had the 'not winning' problem. Riabushenko is faster and a born winner. To win (regularly) in cycling you need to be A one of the best in one aspect, B have a good enough sprint to win sprints from little groups, C have a good enough TT to go solo. Riabushenko has B, Tiesj has not one of those 3. His TT is below par and while he's not slow at all, he isn't explosive enough to really win. Obviously, that can still change. I reckon it's not gonna be long till he wins something, and when he wins, it will be something big!

 

[Bushman]

He can obviously climb really well but Riabushenko is more of a sprinter than Benoot so naturally we will win more races.

I reckon Benoot will win a few of the biggest races over the next years, he is just too talented not to

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

Is there anything Riabushenko can't do? Sprint, TT, climb...

Being so versatile isn't necessarily a good thing though.

I am fully aware. Rojas and Visconti were monsters as youths.
Felline also won a ton. The allrounder problem.

Not everyone can be Valverde/Jalabert/Saronni/etc.

 

[May0maniac]

Joseph Areruya wins stage 5a of the Giro Ciclistico d'Italia with a late attack.

Cherkasov 2nd at 2sec, Stannard 3rd at 3sec and Rodriguez 4th at 6sec, followed by Padun, Hamilton, Scaroni, Sivakov, Philipsen and Powless.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Re:

Joseph Areruya wins stage 5a of the Giro Ciclistico d'Italia with a late attack.

Cherkasov 2nd at 2sec, Stannard 3rd at 3sec and Rodriguez 4th at 6sec, followed by Padun, Hamilton, Scaroni, Sivakov, Philipsen and Powless.

This is great news for African cycling, I have been following him and Chokri El Medi lately (still can't figure out what his last name is Chokri or El Mehdi), they seem like they can make it to the big guys.

 

[del1962]

I see Eddie Dunbar crashed on stage 1, dns stage 2, anyone know how he is doing?

 

[LosBrolin]

Re:

I see Eddie Dunbar crashed on stage 1, dns stage 2, anyone know how he is doing?

Concussion was mentioned on PDF after the stage

 

[yaco]

Robert Stannard is an interesting prospect - Still 18 years of age but is very competitive and has in fact beaten older riders - Still trying to work oout what type of rider he will become.

 

[Samamba]

Lucas Hamilton just won the TT with Davies 2nd and Leysen 3rd. Sivakov remains leader.

 

[May0maniac]

The ITT was hilly, a bit like those that we often get in Romandie.
Speaking of African riders, I wouldn't underestimate Unieuro's Zahiri Abderrahim, after stage 5a he was sitting 14th on gc, he never finished a stage in the top 10, but he was pretty constant, already racing in France last year really help him to improve as a rider.

 

[GuyIncognito]

The hell happened to Riabushenko? He's either very good or very bad this race and today he was very bad.
Almeida 10th in the TT, 18yo. The kid's got power.

Zahiri and Padun both lost quite a lot.

 

[May0maniac]

Zahiri was really bad, he lost 2min. Almeida was really impressive, Baccio from Nibali's team finished 5th 11seconds behind, also pretty good, but Conci doing so welll was a bit of a surprise for me, he seems to have a good engine.

 

[del1962]

Re:

Lucas Hamilton just won the TT with Davies 2nd and Leysen 3rd. Sivakov remains leader.

Can remember Scott Davies excellent commonwealth game ride in Glasgow for Wales supporting G when very young, that was in really bad weather and he was one of few to complete if my memory is correct, glad to see him doing well here

 

[May0maniac]

First Italian stag victory on stage 6 and this time we had 7 Italians in the top 8.
Francesco Romano won ahead of Massimo Rosa, Diego's little brother.

Speaking about gc, Conci, Padun, Hamilton, Sivakov and Hindley gained time on all the other gc contenders.
The stage results and the gc:
http://www.giroditaliau23.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Comunicato-tappa-6.pdf

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

First Italian stag victory on stage 6 and this time we had 7 Italians in the top 8.
Francesco Romano won ahead of Massimo Rosa, Diego's little brother.

Speaking about gc, Conci, Padun, Hamilton, Sivakov and Hindley gained time on all the other gc contenders.
The stage results and the gc:
http://www.giroditaliau23.it/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Comunicato-tappa-6.pdf

Several thousand Italians on the start list, but that's a disadvantage not an advantage when all of their best riders are split across so many teams.

 

[ciranda]

They may represent different teams but also the major u23 races are now mostly being dominated by the overseas millionaire teams and some WT development teams. Before the last stage of the Giro Baby seven in the top ten are from the big teams (it could change today of course). Above all other possible advantages wrt structure and coaching these teams have money to travel to all the big races and number of race days against high quality competition is imo crucial for development of a cyclist.

So they have (a) more race days (b) with harder competition (c) and are better prepared because of the team knowledge and support than the average elite u23 cyclist. It's natural that these teams win a lot of races because ressources but I don't think this picture reflects real values. I mean I don't believe three of the top ten u23 riders in the world are from Australia and other three are from Belgium, that is statistically not right. It's an old argument that intense early development leaves less room for improvement when they turn pros, it's also what italian DS's thought about some of the strongest italians years ago, but I think it's still very relevant.

 

[GuyIncognito]

They may represent different teams but also the major u23 races are now mostly being dominated by the overseas millionaire teams and some WT development teams. Before the last stage of the Giro Baby seven in the top ten are from the big teams (it could change today of course). Above all other possible advantages wrt structure and coaching these teams have money to travel to all the big races and number of race days against high quality competition is imo crucial for development of a cyclist.

So they have (a) more race days (b) with harder competition (c) and are better
prepared because of the team knowledge and support than the average elite u23
cyclist. It's natural that these teams win a lot of races because ressources but I don't think this picture reflects real values. I mean I don't believe three of the top ten u23 riders in the world are from Australia and other three are from Belgium, that is statistically not right. It's an old argument that intense early development leaves less room for improvement when they turn pros, it's also what italian DS's thought about some of the strongest italians years ago, but I think it's still very relevant.

Yes, this has been going on for years.
That's why Rabobank's youngsters were all deemed stars and none of them ever actually got there. They were far more developed than others before turning pro, so had very little margin to improve.

Vermeltfoort may have been the best u23 in the world a few years ago, but now he's 29 and still the same level.

 

[Bye Bye Bicycle]

Vermeltfoort actually has his best ever pro season this year.

Italy is lacking stage races for amateurs/U23. Apart from the Toscana two day event in April there hasn't been a single stage race on this level in Italy so far in 2017. Giro d'Abruzzo - died years ago. Giro delle Pesche Nettarine - defunct since 2015. Giro delle Regioni - RIP. Giro di Cosenza - gone since 2006. And so on.

Some teams try it abroad instead - Colpack at the Bidasoa Itzulia, CT Friuli in Austria's Bundesliga races, Delio Gallina in Hungary. But it's not the same.

 

[Samamba]

1 & 2 for Australia. Hindley wins, Hamilton 2nd.
Sivakov is 3rd and just holds off Hamilton for the GC win.
It's possible that Hamilton could've won the GC if Hindley gave him the win.

EDIT: the difference is 3" in the GC, Hamilton would've won the GC if Hindley gave him the stage win.
EDIT2: it's 9", so didn't matter.