U23 races and talents

[Frankschleck]

Re: Re:

Indeed and if it wasnt for Sagan, Hagen would be a World Champion and double his wins.. Its just Sagan and Hagen has same rider skills..

Yeah, only difference is Sagan is a world class rider while Hagen is a 2nd rate sprinter and a 2nd rate classics rider.

EBH is a world class rider. Sagan is just unbelieveabley good

You must have an immensely broad understanding of what "world class" is then.

If you are one of the favorites for a wc, i consider you world class, same if you have won over 50 bike races, where 20 of them are worldtour. Also if you are a good rider on most terrain, and can be in the sky train. Then you are a world class rider

 

[classicomano]

Re: Re:

Indeed and if it wasnt for Sagan, Hagen would be a World Champion and double his wins.. Its just Sagan and Hagen has same rider skills..

Yeah, only difference is Sagan is a world class rider while Hagen is a 2nd rate sprinter and a 2nd rate classics rider.

EBH is a world class rider. Sagan is just unbelieveabley good

You must have an immensely broad understanding of what "world class" is then.

If you are one of the favorites for a wc, i consider you world class, same if you have won over 50 bike races, where 20 of them are worldtour. Also if you are a good rider on most terrain, and can be in the sky train. Then you are a world class rider

Maybe, once. Last few years the only thing hes world class in is winning his home races no one else cares about like the "Tour Des Fjords".

Which is how we get back to the original point, underachieving Scandi's. If had Eddy kept progressing the way he did in his early years at HTC he would've won a truck load of monuments already. He stagnated, at about age 23, which is already a big win for a talented Scandi. They usually fade back into obscurity after a few years.

 

[Norbea]

I don't find it especially surprising that Denmark and Norway produces a lot of good talents. Nor do I find it surprising that they are not as dominant at senior levels. Cycling has had a boost in popularity. Norway has always done well in some endurance sports but cycling was a marginal sport before it became a popular sport about 10 years ago. In Denmark it has been popular for a long time. However a pro career usually means moving and fitting in to new cultures, languages etc. Not everyone are cut out to handle the move and change in environments.

Oskar Svensson, maybe one of the greatest talents we've seen in a long time, didn't even want to try it out. Making it in the pro ranks demands a lot of sacrifice. And maybe even more so for some of the Scandinavian riders who has easy access to education and other opportunities.

 

[AQETUYIOI]

Re: Re:

Indeed and if it wasnt for Sagan, Hagen would be a World Champion and double his wins.. Its just Sagan and Hagen has same rider skills..

Yeah, only difference is Sagan is a world class rider while Hagen is a 2nd rate sprinter and a 2nd rate classics rider.

How many are world-class?

 

[Norbea]

Re: Re:

[/quote]
Yeah, only difference is Sagan is a world class rider while Hagen is a 2nd rate sprinter and a 2nd rate classics rider.[/quote]

EBH is a world class rider. Sagan is just unbelieveabley good[/quote]
You must have an immensely broad understanding of what "world class" is then.[/quote]

If you are one of the favorites for a wc, i consider you world class, same if you have won over 50 bike races, where 20 of them are worldtour. Also if you are a good rider on most terrain, and can be in the sky train. Then you are a world class rider [/quote]
Maybe, once. Last few years the only thing hes world class in is winning his home races no one else cares about like the "Tour Des Fjords".

Which is how we get back to the original point, underachieving Scandi's. If had Eddy kept progressing the way he did in his early years at HTC he would've won a truck load of monuments already. He stagnated, at about age 23, which is already a big win for a talented Scandi. They usually fade back into obscurity after a few years.[/quote]

Eddy is just one case. I wouldn't say Hushovd or Kristoff faded past 23, they definitely improved their skills over the years. Kristoff didn't even start winning at top level before he was past 24. It all depends on what type of riders they are and what potential they have to develop on the highest levels. I agree that Boasson Hagens potential might be greater than what he has actually achieved, but Eddy also had some issues with his diets. If you are aiming for world dominance you need all marginal gains. It's not like it's easy, even for guys like him.

 

[el chava]

Re:

I don't find it especially surprising that Denmark and Norway produces a lot of good talents. Nor do I find it surprising that they are not as dominant at senior levels. Cycling has had a boost in popularity. Norway has always done well in some endurance sports but cycling was a marginal sport before it became a popular sport about 10 years ago. In Denmark it has been popular for a long time. However a pro career usually means moving and fitting in to new cultures, languages etc. Not everyone are cut out to handle the move and change in environments.

Oskar Svensson, maybe one of the greatest talents we've seen in a long time, didn't even want to try it out. Making it in the pro ranks demands a lot of sacrifice. And maybe even more so for some of the Scandinavian riders who has easy access to education and other opportunities.

That can hardly be the reason, even though it seems to me that the danish riders in the 80/90s were a bit more adventurous and not afraid to go away on your own. But it is not like the rest of Europe are total backwater country compared to Scandinavia regarding alternative opportunities. And the dutch do reasonably well in the pro ranks. Even the UK are producing better riders nowadays.

Norway is an outlier, though, as, as you noted, it is a fairly new sport which owes much of its popularity to Thor Hushovd.

 

[Monte]

Re: Re:

I don't find it especially surprising that Denmark and Norway produces a lot of good talents. Nor do I find it surprising that they are not as dominant at senior levels. Cycling has had a boost in popularity. Norway has always done well in some endurance sports but cycling was a marginal sport before it became a popular sport about 10 years ago. In Denmark it has been popular for a long time. However a pro career usually means moving and fitting in to new cultures, languages etc. Not everyone are cut out to handle the move and change in environments.

Oskar Svensson, maybe one of the greatest talents we've seen in a long time, didn't even want to try it out. Making it in the pro ranks demands a lot of sacrifice. And maybe even more so for some of the Scandinavian riders who has easy access to education and other opportunities.

That can hardly be the reason, even though it seems to me that the danish riders in the 80/90s were a bit more adventurous and not afraid to go away on your own. But it is not like the rest of Europe are total backwater country compared to Scandinavia regarding alternative opportunities. And the dutch do reasonably well in the pro ranks. Even the UK are producing better riders nowadays.

Norway is an outlier, though, as, as you noted, it is a fairly new sport which owes much of its popularity to Thor Hushovd.

Nah we owe our success to Olympiatoppen and cross country skiing that get millions of dollars every year to be the best in cardiac sport (we are the best winter olympic nation ever), second is Dag Otto Lauritzen with his personality, then Thor HUshovd winning U23 and then Kurt Asle Winning U23-- Then Thor Winning Words in Ganong.. And not to forget TV2.no for investing so much money on the sport; media matters! . Denmark has always been good in Cycling; Norway havent.

And also Norwegian fans, they are everywhere..!!

Slam dunk!

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

Naaaah!

This is in NOrway, in Bergen.. Leknessund will win with more than 2 minutes.. Easy. He is the favourite also ..

Looks like neither of us was right.




(Johansen still beat Leknessund, though.)

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Denmark produces about as many decent pros as you'd expect from a small country with a reasonably strong cycling tradition. The weird thing is how many superkids they produce.

 

[JoeD1997]

Jasper Philipsen says his season is about to end and he has yet to sign with a team for 2018, but he will remain at U23 level indefinitely: https://u23cyclingzone.wordpress.com/2017/09/28/get-to-know-jasper-philipsen/

Also, Max Kanter, 7th in Bergen RR, remains U23 with Sunweb despite doing two stagiaire stints with the pro team in 2016 and 2017: https://u23cyclingzone.wordpress.com/2017/09/27/get-to-know-max-kanter/

 

[Samamba]

Re:

Jasper Philipsen says his season is about to end and he has yet to sign with a team for 2018, but he will remain at U23 level indefinitely: https://u23cyclingzone.wordpress.com/2017/09/28/get-to-know-jasper-philipsen/

Probably Axeon.

 

[JoeD1997]

Re: Re:

Funny you say that, I had the exact same thought about Philipsen going to Axeon.

 

[Ruudz0r]

Well Axeon is applying for PCT, so if they get it it would still mean he would turn pro so my guess is he is going elsewhere, maybe Lotto Soudal U23

 

[Samamba]

Re:

Well Axeon is applying for PCT, so if they get it it would still mean he would turn pro so my guess is he is going elsewhere, maybe Lotto Soudal U23

According to some Belgian newspapers he was close to a deal with Axeon.
Lotto Soudal u23 would be the obvious choice, but he already chose BMC over them last year and I don't think it's a good idea to have the two most talented Belgian sprinters (u23) in the same team (Thijssen is the other one). Plus I heard that Quick Step already had contacts with him so I don't think that LTS wants to invest in someone who doesn't want to commit to their "project".

 

[GuyIncognito]

Philipsen's not really a sprinter, though. He has a fast finish and can win from reduced bunches, but he's not good enough to specialize as a sprinter as a pro. His path will be as a classics rider.

 

[Samamba]

Like I said and expected, Philipsen will ride for Axeon next year.

 

[ciranda]

Re:

Denmark produces about as many decent pros as you'd expect from a small country with a reasonably strong cycling tradition. The weird thing is how many superkids they produce.

Not correct on both counts. So many never get opportunities because teams only pick danish riders if they have
big results. And the ones that do get contracts have to prove big time from the start or expect to get dropped like Matvey Mamykin. Nationality is so important now. But it was even like that when CSC/Saxo was still around.

For instance Rasmus Quaade has never had offers from big teams. He was sixth in the senior time trial in 2013, 12th the following year after a crash and a puncture I think? He has targeted track cycling far too much but in the few occasions he has had, like Four days in Dunkerque and Tour of Britain and a long series of top tens in stage races this year, has shown he is a strong road cyclist with real potential. Also he is a super cool and thoughtful individual. Everybody should watch the documentary Moon Rider. Sadly no big team has ever been interested so far and that sucks for so many reasons.

For the part about super kids Bjerg was above everyone else and as a first year born in november is promising to say the least. But I don't recall similar performances from earlier years (well Johansen this year but juniors don't count).

 

[staubsauger]

Which superkids Denmark eventually has produced in the pro ranks? Riis & Rasmussen obviously, but furthermore Fuglsang is their only high profile rider in the last decade.

 

[May0maniac]

Yeah, Quaade never getting an offer from a bigger team after the 2013 WC surprised me.

 

[el chava]

Re: Re:

Denmark produces about as many decent pros as you'd expect from a small country with a reasonably strong cycling tradition. The weird thing is how many superkids they produce.

For instance Rasmus Quaade has never had offers from big teams. He was sixth in the senior time trial in 2013, 12th the following year after a crash and a puncture I think? He has targeted track cycling far too much but in the few occasions he has had, like Four days in Dunkerque and Tour of Britain and a long series of top tens in stage races this year, has shown he is a strong road cyclist with real potential. Also he is a super cool and thoughtful individual. Everybody should watch the documentary Moon Rider. Sadly no big team has ever been interested so far and that sucks for so many reasons.
.

Moon Rider is very much recommended, but it also shows how some of those track riders have a hard time adjusting to the tactics and finesse of road racing. And even though he has improved I doubt Quaade will ever reach PCT level again. He signed for BHS next year, hardly a step forward.

 

[JoeD1997]

Reto Muller is the first BMC Devo rider not going pro to announce his 2018 home: Chambery CF.

So going pro are: Cras (Katusha), Eenkhorn (LottoNL), P. Muller (Vital Concept), Sivakov (Sky), Welten (Fortuneo) (I'm sure I saw Turgis was also going pro at a French PCT team but not sure)

R Muller goes to Chambery, Philipsen looks like Axeon. Scotston should go pro but who knows in the current market, will be picked up by someone at U23 if not a pro team. Hirschi is also crazy talented so a U23 team will almost certainly pick him up. If Turgis doesn't have a pro deal I'm sure someone takes him too.

I wonder what happens to Appelt, Barbier, Dobbs, Schappi and Spengler?

 

[jonas334455]

It's said in Switzerland that Hirschi will sign (or already has) with the Sunweb Devo team. Nothing on Schäppi or Spengler yet.

 

[Thepirateisgood]

Probably belongs in track, but seems appropriate seeing the last posts and that he will most certainly be a road rider in the future:
Mikkel Bjerg (18 yo !), new official danish record for one hour: 52.311 !

That is faster than Obree first (praying mantis) plus Boardmans first,

Let us see in the years ahead if "the danish theory" is correct.

Amazing talent, nevertheless

Edit: Rohan at 24 yo was at 52.491.
I see now it's even at the wikipedia for the hour record, but I'm not 100% sure if all rules applied, but anyway it's like top ten all time with new rules, no?

 

[Squire]

So Vanhoucke to Lotto-Soudal as well. There's hardly anyone left in the u23 ranks!

 

[Ruudz0r]

Re:

So Vanhoucke to Lotto-Soudal as well. There's hardly anyone left in the u23 ranks!

He will join the pro team at the 1st of july, so before that he still rides in u23 category.