UCI Independent Commission on 'Lance-Gate'

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Oct 15, 2012
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hektoren said:
I'm tired of all the nay-sayers, all the conspiration-theorists in here. It's not that I can´t, sort of, understand their rationale, I mean, there's been plenty of collusion, doping, hidden forces, enablers, dirty doctors, that's a given, but come on, take five, read the statements from Phat McQuack over the last few years, and what you'll be able to take away from it is a guy who obviously hasn't got the greatest PR-department, frequently has predecessors' statements getting in his way, but all in all is a positive force against doping.
I admit, there's been a lot of bad, not-quite-thought-through statements. There's been, of lateley, the WADA-UCI spat about the TRC, which will be resolved, but c'mon, the BAD guy here is Verbruggen, not Pat McQuaid. Clean cycling really has moved forward under his rule. I don't like to admit it, but it really has done so.
Now, call me naive (which BTW is the exact opposite of all Evian-comsumers worldwide), but I really believe there're parts of Pat that wants to go about the upcoming process in a decent way, sod all previous allegiances, and he may yet be the central star in a TRC we'll find just, in-time, and as well as looking backwards will be looking towards the great future that is in store for cycling at large.
Just thinking.
Hein is totally corrupt, and a bit incompetent. He actually seems to like doped cycling.

Pat is a totally incompetent, and a bit corrupt. Don't actually think he likes doped cycling, but not overly motivated to fix it.

There is a moral difference between the two, but they both still should go. Problem may be that HV virtually invented UCI if i recall correctly - large inbuilt difficulty in getting rid; he's built it around himself.
 
Jan 29, 2010
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hektoren said:
I'm tired of all the nay-sayers, all the conspiration-theorists in here. It's not that I can´t, sort of, understand their rationale, I mean, there's been plenty of collusion, doping, hidden forces, enablers, dirty doctors, that's a given, but come on, take five, read the statements from Phat McQuack over the last few years, and what you'll be able to take away from it is a guy who obviously hasn't got the greatest PR-department, frequently has predecessors' statements getting in his way, but all in all is a positive force against doping.
I admit, there's been a lot of bad, not-quite-thought-through statements. There's been, of lateley, the WADA-UCI spat about the TRC, which will be resolved, but c'mon, the BAD guy here is Verbruggen, not Pat McQuaid. Clean cycling really has moved forward under his rule. I don't like to admit it, but it really has done so.
Now, call me naive (which BTW is the exact opposite of all Evian-comsumers worldwide), but I really believe there're parts of Pat that wants to go about the upcoming process in a decent way, sod all previous allegiances, and he may yet be the central star in a TRC we'll find just, in-time, and as well as looking backwards will be looking towards the great future that is in store for cycling at large.
Just thinking.
McQuaid bent hell on earth trying to shut down USADA's armstrong investigation. What planet are you from that you can rationally say what you said?
 
Jun 19, 2009
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hektoren said:
I'm tired of all the nay-sayers, all the conspiration-theorists in here. It's not that I can´t, sort of, understand their rationale, I mean, there's been plenty of collusion, doping, hidden forces, enablers, dirty doctors, that's a given, but come on, take five, read the statements from Phat McQuack over the last few years, and what you'll be able to take away from it is a guy who obviously hasn't got the greatest PR-department, frequently has predecessors' statements getting in his way, but all in all is a positive force against doping.
I admit, there's been a lot of bad, not-quite-thought-through statements. There's been, of lateley, the WADA-UCI spat about the TRC, which will be resolved, but c'mon, the BAD guy here is Verbruggen, not Pat McQuaid. Clean cycling really has moved forward under his rule. I don't like to admit it, but it really has done so.
Now, call me naive (which BTW is the exact opposite of all Evian-comsumers worldwide), but I really believe there're parts of Pat that wants to go about the upcoming process in a decent way, sod all previous allegiances, and he may yet be the central star in a TRC we'll find just, in-time, and as well as looking backwards will be looking towards the great future that is in store for cycling at large.
Just thinking.
Quite simply disagree.
If Pat was all that then he would have released details about the donations without prompting as soon as it was known. He choose to protect Hein, so he is just as corrupt as HV.

Also, if you read the letters sent by UCI to USADA, written by Pat, you will see his true colors.
 
hektoren said:
...come on, take five, read the statements from Phat McQuack over the last few years, and what you'll be able to take away from it is a guy who obviously hasn't got the greatest PR-department
uh huh. Here's his winning formula.
-Start interview with basic formalities.
-Cleanest peloton ever.
-2% of the peloton dopes.
-Bio-passport is the best. Ever. It's so complicated no one understands it therefore doping is impossible.
-Launch a personal attack against everyone but Wonderboy.
-End the interview.

He's been using that formula since, well, since even before the bio-passport. And yet, the scale and depth of corruption only grows. FYI: He's hired a PR rep. Apparently Pat either ignored all advice, or he thought Pat was a "refreshing straight-shooter" and just let it fly anyway.

Now what WOULD be fun to watch is if Pat wants to try to stay in the good graces of the IOC/UCI by turning on Hein. Haven't they made that organized crime movie?
 
Jun 15, 2009
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WinterRider said:
McQuaid bent hell on earth trying to shut down USADA's armstrong investigation. What planet are you from that you can rationally say what you said?
Well, I believe I'm from planet earth, but if you have any contrary evidence, be my guest.
Thing is, I actually believe in Pat McQuaids anger. I remember him being extremely angry at Landis. At Hamilton. He didn't like the fact that these were guys that cost the UCI big money through their lying pie-holes, and he didn't like the "latter-day saint"-status awarded them by the press. And I see his point. As did Nicole Cooke.

I actually believe Anne Gripper too, and when she said "they (UCI) is totally committed to the elimination of doping" I figure that I have no certain information to the contrary.

Sure, he may be incompetent, I can't really know. He may have been overly territorial and turf-conscious. I can see that. He may speak before he thinks sometimes, having an anger-management issue, and his legal advisors may score very badly on a scale of political correctness. But I really believe he's dead set against doping. I do.
 
Jun 30, 2012
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hektoren said:
Well, I believe I'm from planet earth, but if you have any contrary evidence, be my guest.
Thing is, I actually believe in Pat McQuaids anger. I remember him being extremely angry at Landis. At Hamilton. He didn't like the fact that these were guys that cost the UCI big money through their lying pie-holes, and he didn't like the "latter-day saint"-status awarded them by the press. And I see his point. As did Nicole Cooke.

I actually believe Anne Gripper too, and when she said "they (UCI) is totally committed to the elimination of doping" I figure that I have no certain information to the contrary.

Sure, he may be incompetent, I can't really know. He may have been overly territorial and turf-conscious. I can see that. He may speak before he thinks sometimes, having an anger-management issue, and his legal advisors may score very badly on a scale of political correctness. But I really believe he's dead set against doping. I do.
Pat gets very angry about doping scandals. Not about doping.
 
Oct 30, 2012
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So it's WADA, USADA, CCN & UCIIC who see the value and necessity of an Amnesty & T&R process.

Pat McQuaid, Dave Brailsford & now Gianni Bugno (head of the pro-cyclists union the CPA) against.

Conclusions?
 
May 24, 2010
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Commission is being disbanded in favour of Truth and reconcilliation process

More to come when I get it
 
May 24, 2010
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Hot off the UCI press
PRESS RELEASE
D a t e : 2 8 J a n u a r y 2 0 1 3
UCI to disband Independent Commission in favour of Truth and
Reconciliation process
The UCI today announced that it is disbanding the Independent
Commission – established to investigate the allegations made against
the UCI in the USADA reasoned decision on Lance Armstrong and
the United States Postal Service (USPS) team – since WADA,
USADA have refused to cooperate with the inquiry. The Independent
Commission itself has said that any report it produced without these
bodies being involved in the process would be dismissed as not being
complete or credible.
UCI President Pat McQuaid said: “As I said last Friday, we have
listened carefully to the views of WADA, USADA and cycling
stakeholders and have decided that a truth and reconciliation process
is the best way to examine the culture of doping in cycling in the past
and to clear the air so that cycling can move forward.
“Over the weekend I spoke to John Fahey, President of WADA. He
confirmed WADA’s willingness to help the UCI establish a Truth and
Reconciliation Commission (TRC), as well as saying that WADA had
no confidence in the existing Independent Commission process.”
McQuaid continued: “Given this development, the UCI Management
Committee today decided that the federation could no longer fund a
procedure whose outcome is likely to be rejected by such an
important stakeholder. We have therefore decided to disband the
Independent Commission with immediate effect.
“We do this with regret, but given the stance of WADA we did not see
any other option. I would like to thank Sir Philip Otton, Baroness
Tanni Grey-Thompson and Malcolm Holmes QC for their work which I
am sorry they will not be able to complete.
"We will now focus our efforts on establishing a TRC, with which we
expect WADA to be fully engaged, to look at doping in professional
cycling, as well as the allegations contained in the USADA reasoned
decision. The work that has so far been undertaken by the
Independent Commission will be shared with the TRC.”
It is expected that the TRC process will launch later this year – and,
following its completion, its report will be published in full.
The Independent Commission, established in November 2012, was
chaired by the eminent former Court of Appeal judge Sir Philip Otton,
and included the UK House of Lords Peer and Paralympic Champion
Baroness Tanni Grey-Thompson and the Australian lawyer Malcolm
Holmes QC.
Despite the Independent Commission members being appointed by
John Coates, President of the International Council of Arbitration for
Sport, WADA, USADA and others immediately attacked the
independence of its members. These bodies also criticised the terms
of reference set by the Commission itself and wrongly claimed the
UCI might block publication of the Independent Commission’s report,
despite it being made clear publicly from the outset that the report
would be published immediately and in full.
The Management Committee took the decision to disband the
Independent Commission before its second public hearing on
Thursday since it made no sense to spend six figure legal fees and
other running costs this week when it was clear that WADA and
USADA would not co-operate with it and thus any final report would
be dismissed as not being complete, or not credible; a TRC was
widely seen as the way forward, but WADA and others didn't see the
Independent Commission as part of that new process.
Mr McQuaid added: “This is too important for rushed discussions, or
hasty decisions. It is completely unrealistic to expect that we and
WADA can sort through all the details of setting up a Truth and
Reconciliation Commission in just a couple of days, based on an
arbitrary deadline set by the Independent Commission of Thursday.
“There is still a huge amount to discuss before we can finalise a
detailed legal framework, including how such a TRC, which is
completely unprecedented in sport, should be funded now that WADA
contrary to earlier indications refuses to contribute financially. This is
something that will be discussed fully at the management committee
meeting on Friday. I would stress that, while I am committed to a
TRC, it needs to be a process which is in the best interests of our
sport and our federation – and which also does not bankrupt it.”
“I hope the lessons learned from the truth and reconciliation process
will help in particular to educate young riders and to help eradicate
doping in its entirety from cycling.”
UCI Communication Services
Mega thanks to Jose at http://tourdejose.com/tag/jose-been/
 
May 26, 2010
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Wonder who will be on the T&R? Probably just Hein and Pat. How many would turn up to that? 1, Wonderboy.
 
Oct 14, 2012
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Well ain't that just the cats meow. I somehow suspected after seeing the limited scope in the terms, that the UCIIC was a paper lion with its teeth removed. The Commission tried to grow some teeth and UCI maneuvered to disband. Now lets see, what do you suppose the odds are that any internal UCI documents will make their way into the truth and reconciliation hearings, if and when they happen. I feel a great letdown coming.
 
Grandillusion said:
So it's WADA, USADA, CCN & UCIIC who see the value and necessity of an Amnesty & T&R process.

Pat McQuaid, Dave Brailsford & now Gianni Bugno (head of the pro-cyclists union the CPA) against.

Conclusions?
Bad Timing!

But perhaps an example of how we draw the conclusions we want from the evidence around.
I am sure now UCI is in favour of T&R, the same people will still draw the same conclusions, including me!
 
Jun 19, 2009
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One important point that should be recognised.

The UCIIC wanted a T&R not just of the riders, but as part of their investigation of the UCI.
What the UCI have done today is to kill the investigation in to them.
Not surprising.

Here is the press release from UCIIC last Friday:
The Commission came to the view that some form of witness Amnesty was desirable to enable the Commission to gather comprehensive evidence for this Inquiry. The Commission also believed, and still strongly believes, that an Amnesty is important for the good of professional cycling generally.
 
Benotti69 said:
Wonder who will be on the T&R? Probably just Hein and Pat. How many would turn up to that? 1, Wonderboy.
It's a perfect Vrijman report!

The way the message has been spun is brilliant. It's as if WADA was the problem. You can't make that up! Sick and brilliant.

They are claiming WADA support. That's not going to last.

I'll post it again. I'm shocked the IC was so independent!
 
Oct 30, 2012
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coinneach said:
Bad Timing!

But perhaps an example of how we draw the conclusions we want from the evidence around.
I am sure now UCI is in favour of T&R, the same people will still draw the same conclusions, including me!
Don't be naive Coinneach, the Amnesty and T&R process was specifically being fought for in order to investigate the allegations against the UCI in the RD.

You don't mean you take this hogwash from McQuaid seriously?
 
Grandillusion said:
Don't be naive Coinneach, the Amnesty and T&R process was specifically being fought for in order to investigate the allegations against the UCI in the RD.

You don't mean you take this hogwash from McQuaid seriously?
No, I don't...and I really cannot see how he can possibly survive this fiasco.

Whatever you think about his approach to doping & corruption, the level of incompetence is staggering.

I wonder what the members of the Commission will say now they are sacked?
Zero Tolerance (for lawyers fees, that is)
 
Oct 30, 2012
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coinneach said:
No, I don't...and I really cannot see how he can possibly survive this fiasco.

Whatever you think about his approach to doping & corruption, the level of incompetence is staggering.

I wonder what the members of the Commission will say now they are sacked?
Zero Tolerance (for lawyers fees, that is)
I hope I'm totally mistaken, but it feels like McQuaid is winning, somehow. The brazen brass balls of the man are staggering.

Who can stop him? Scathing statements from the sacked commissioners will bounce off Pat's rhinoceros hide unnoticed. An uprising from within the UCI itself?
 
May 26, 2010
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Grandillusion said:
I hope I'm totally mistaken, but it feels like McQuaid is winning, somehow. The brazen brass balls of the man are staggering.

Who can stop him? Scathing statements from the sacked commissioners will bounce off Pat's rhinoceros hide unnoticed. An uprising from within the UCI itself?
The only hope in all this that i can see is whether the Swiss Police has some balls and investigate the UCI and that could be a better result than any of us could hope for. But i fear that if they open up the UCI corruption it will lead all the way to the IOC and I imagine that Swiss politicians have got their hands in that pie.
 
Oct 30, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
The only hope in all this that i can see is whether the Swiss Police has some balls and investigate the UCI and that could be a better result than any of us could hope for. But i fear that if they open up the UCI corruption it will lead all the way to the IOC and I imagine that Swiss politicians have got their hands in that pie.
Yep that sounds about right Benotti unfortunately. I've just looked at the BBC Sport report on the latest developments - absolutely abysmally inept take on things. I'm a computer illiterate I'm ashamed to say, so can't provide the link. Maybe you or some other kind person could? It's worth it for a laugh :)

Where do the BBC get these 'journalists'?
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Grandillusion said:
I hope I'm totally mistaken, but it feels like McQuaid is winning, somehow. The brazen brass balls of the man are staggering.

Who can stop him? Scathing statements from the sacked commissioners will bounce off Pat's rhinoceros hide unnoticed. An uprising from within the UCI itself?
McQuaid is not winning - this is a desperate attempt to kill the investigation while blaming others.

As to your question - well he is not going to resign or go quietly, but the management Committe meet on Friday, should be interesting.
 
Grandillusion said:
Yep that sounds about right Benotti unfortunately. I've just looked at the BBC Sport report on the latest developments - absolutely abysmally inept take on things. I'm a computer illiterate I'm ashamed to say, so can't provide the link. Maybe you or some other kind person could? It's worth it for a laugh :)

Where do the BBC get these 'journalists'?
Burried on the BBC

http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/21240211

I am sure if I could speak French I would get far more info
 
Oct 30, 2012
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Dr. Maserati said:
McQuaid is not winning - this is a desperate attempt to kill the investigation while blaming others.

As to your question - well he is not going to resign or go quietly, but the management Committe meet on Friday, should be interesting.
Roll on Friday & the insurrection then :) Fingers crossed.
 

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