UCI refuses to let USADA test at USPCC

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Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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Race Radio said:
More nonsense.

USADA tested Lance for 7 months of his 1st career. When he foolishly tried to come back they got him. You do realize that 40% of sanctions in the last 18 months have been non-analytical positives? Testing is only one element of the process. The UCI could have pursued much of the evidence that brought down lance years ago, they did nothing

The UCI did more then the IOC? The key motivator for the IOC to start WADA was the UCI's complete failure to police their sport. The Festina affair made it clear that the UCI was not going to address the issue and an independent testing agency needed to be set up
Well Timbo25 will tell you this was all part of the UCI longterm strategy - let the doping get so out of hand that the French Police have to expose it so the IOC will set up WADA.

Brilliant thinking by the UCI - vote Pat No. 1, and Hein No 2.
 
timbo25 said:
i think you have to correct these faults on the internet and wiki and so on
since you are the only source for the facts you are stating.
what RR is stating is public knowledge and available to anyone with an Internet connection, Google, and ten seconds to spare.

Oh, and half a brain.

Dave.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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If USADA does the testing, would they get the costs for that refunded by the UCI or would USADA pay for it themselves?
If the latter holds, it would seem even more of a mystery why UCI don't let USADA do it.
 
Jun 27, 2013
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D-Queued said:
what RR is stating is public knowledge and available to anyone with an Internet connection, Google, and ten seconds to spare.

Oh, and half a brain.

Dave.
no, it is not!
show me the proof
 
Nov 27, 2012
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sniper said:
If USADA does the testing, would they get the costs for that refunded by the UCI or would USADA pay for it themselves?
If the latter holds, it would seem even more of a mystery why UCI don't let USADA do it.
I think the race organizer usually pays for the costs of the tests no matter who is in charge of the testing. If USADA manages the testing, there will be zero cost to the UCI for the testing. But if UCI manages the testing, they will incur some incidental charges.

Quote from CADF Business Report re UCI testing: “CADF designates a UCI Doping Control Officer (DCO) who manages all the testing operations during the race. The organizer pays for the sample collection, transport and analysis while the CADF pays for DCO’s expenses and travel.”

In 2012 the UCI paid 477,000 swiss francs for IC tests and I am assuming that covers the expenses of the DCOs. The 477K figure might also include all testing costs for the Worlds but 1K should cover that... Or maybe the host city covers those costs.

The testing at USPCC can be managed by USADA at no cost to the UCI. Or the UCI can control the testing with a cost. And if they control the testing, they design the ‘testing strategy’. So what’s more important to the UCI reducing its expenses or controlling the tests? Hmm....
.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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sniper said:
still begs the question whether (and if so why) he didn't recognize the farce before. It really was written on the wall well before this year's tdf.
he always knew what was possible. he is just running a business. and it is not in his interests to bring the sport to its knees. thats the type of sociopathy of Armstrong's ilk. but even Armstrong would not go against his own interests.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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northstar said:
I think the race organizer usually pays for the costs of the tests no matter who is in charge of the testing. If USADA manages the testing, there will be zero cost to the UCI for the testing. But if UCI manages the testing, they will incur some incidental charges.

Quote from CADF Business Report re UCI testing: “CADF designates a UCI Doping Control Officer (DCO) who manages all the testing operations during the race. The organizer pays for the sample collection, transport and analysis while the CADF pays for DCO’s expenses and travel.”

In 2012 the UCI paid 477,000 swiss francs for IC tests and I am assuming that covers the expenses of the DCOs. The 477K figure might also include all testing costs for the Worlds but 1K should cover that...

The testing at USPCC can be managed by USADA at no cost to the UCI. Or the UCI can control the testing with a cost. And if they control the testing, they design the ‘testing strategy’. So what’s more important to the UCI reducing its expenses or controlling the tests? Hmm....
.
thanks Northstar for the detailed answer.
I'd say "hmm..." indeed.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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[QUOT=blackcat;1315546]he always knew what was possible. he is just running a business. and it is not in his interests to bring the sport to its knees. thats the type of sociopathy of Armstrong's ilk. but even Armstrong would not go against his own interests.[/QUOTE]
sure. I think i know more or less how to interpret most of his claims (i.e. with a grain of salt.)
I just like to point out the inconsistencies from time to time. You do remember he was quite proactively preaching in favor of Sky prior to the tdf. He even felt it necessary to try and convince the clinic 12 of that.:rolleyes:
 
Oct 16, 2010
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blackcat said:
he always knew what was possible. he is just running a business. and it is not in his interests to bring the sport to its knees. thats the type of sociopathy of Armstrong's ilk. but even Armstrong would not go against his own interests.
sure. I think i know more or less how to interpret most of his claims.
I just like to point out the inconsistencies from time to time. You do remember he was quite proactively preaching in favor of Sky prior to the tdf. He even felt it necessary to try and convince the clinic 12 and e.g. David Walsh once said he believed Sky are clean because Vanghters said so.
I'd welcome it if JV is now more agnostic on the matter.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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sniper said:
sure. I think i know more or less how to interpret most of his claims.
I just like to point out the inconsistencies from time to time. You do remember he was quite proactively preaching in favor of Sky prior to the tdf. He even felt it necessary to try and convince the clinic 12 and e.g. David Walsh once said he believed Sky are clean because Vanghters said so.
I'd welcome it if JV is now more agnostic on the matter.
yah dude, i'm with you. firmly in that corner. i just put the <unsaid> out there, explicit for the naif(s).

jv feels a little silly now over his contador claims and wishing to see his passport as caveat to expresseing interest.

that Dauphine tt, when Richie did a Miguel Indurain v Armstrong 2 decades earlier, was quite amusing. just demonstrated Alberto is also a biochemistry invention.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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northstar said:
I think the race organizer usually pays for the costs of the tests no matter who is in charge of the testing. If USADA manages the testing, there will be zero cost to the UCI for the testing. But if UCI manages the testing, they will incur some incidental charges.

Quote from CADF Business Report re UCI testing: “CADF designates a UCI Doping Control Officer (DCO) who manages all the testing operations during the race. The organizer pays for the sample collection, transport and analysis while the CADF pays for DCO’s expenses and travel.”

In 2012 the UCI paid 477,000 swiss francs for IC tests and I am assuming that covers the expenses of the DCOs. The 477K figure might also include all testing costs for the Worlds but 1K should cover that...

The testing at USPCC can be managed by USADA at no cost to the UCI. Or the UCI can control the testing with a cost. And if they control the testing, they design the ‘testing strategy’. So what’s more important to the UCI reducing its expenses or controlling the tests? Hmm....
.
so, you think AMGEN wanted any positives at the Medalists Sports ToC?

surely they could have organised a few EPO positives from Tom Zirbel in the timetrials?
 
timbo25 said:
no, it is not!
show me the proof
why can't you learn to use Google?

Ten seconds:

About
Michael Ashenden has a PhD in exercise physiology and has worked for over a decade as a freelance antidoping researcher specialising in blood doping.
Biography
Michael was employed as a sports physiologist at the Australian Institute of Sport leading up to the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games. In 2001 he left to work full-time in the field of anti-doping research.

He is the sole director of SIAB Research, which has subsequently coordinated the successful development of tests for homologous blood transfusion and haemoglobin-based blood substitutes (SIAB broke new ground when it successfully partnered with pharmaceutical companies for this research).

SIAB was the first entity funded by WADA to investigate the concept of the blood passport back in 2003. Michael continues to contribute his expertise via the World Anti-Doping Agency's ABP Expert Panel.

Dr Ashenden believes strongly in the need for transparency and accountability in antidoping activities. He has attracted a reputation for being outspoken on such matters.

The primary objective of this facebook page is to provide those interested with a central repository for media interviews that he has provided. Its primary purpose is not intended as a discussion forum, and Dr Ashenden makes no undertaking to facilitate or encourage debate. Subsequently, posts will be left on or removed entirely at his discretion.


Ashenden did not work for the UCI to develop the BP.

He worked at the AIS, as RR pointed out, when he first began his investigations on 'indirect' evidence leading up to the 2000 Olympics.

He was then funded by WADA.

Now, please don't force me to repeat the 'half a brain' qualification part.

Dave.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Dave. the half a brain qualifier, its a bit like the glass of milk thought experiment?

are you the guy with a glass half full worldview. or a glass half empty world view.

in the half empty with a frontal lobotomy, or is that the half full?
 
Aug 12, 2009
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blackcat said:
Dave. the half a brain qualifier, its a bit like the glass of milk thought experiment?

are you the guy with a glass half full worldview. or a glass half empty world view.

in the half empty with a frontal lobotomy, or is that the half full?
It's overflowing with stupidity. Like a never ending fountain. Damn I wish it would go bone dry, but just when you think it's done, it rises up over the brim and lip once again.
 
Jun 27, 2013
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D-Queued said:
why can't you learn to use Google?

Ten seconds:

About
Michael Ashenden has a PhD in exercise physiology and has worked for over a decade as a freelance antidoping researcher specialising in blood doping.
Biography
Michael was employed as a sports physiologist at the Australian Institute of Sport leading up to the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games. In 2001 he left to work full-time in the field of anti-doping research.

He is the sole director of SIAB Research, which has subsequently coordinated the successful development of tests for homologous blood transfusion and haemoglobin-based blood substitutes (SIAB broke new ground when it successfully partnered with pharmaceutical companies for this research).

SIAB was the first entity funded by WADA to investigate the concept of the blood passport back in 2003. Michael continues to contribute his expertise via the World Anti-Doping Agency's ABP Expert Panel.

Dr Ashenden believes strongly in the need for transparency and accountability in antidoping activities. He has attracted a reputation for being outspoken on such matters.

The primary objective of this facebook page is to provide those interested with a central repository for media interviews that he has provided. Its primary purpose is not intended as a discussion forum, and Dr Ashenden makes no undertaking to facilitate or encourage debate. Subsequently, posts will be left on or removed entirely at his discretion.


Ashenden did not work for the UCI to develop the BP.

He worked at the AIS, as RR pointed out, when he first began his investigations on 'indirect' evidence leading up to the 2000 Olympics.

He was then funded by WADA.

Now, please don't force me to repeat the 'half a brain' qualification part.

Dave.
Ashden was not the point of discussion, the testing by the UCI was.
 
Dec 21, 2010
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timbo25 said:
Ashden was not the point of discussion, the testing by the UCI was.
Message from Obfuscation Central,

"Tone it down, T25, you are becoming OBVIOUS."

Now back to the regular program, folks.....:rolleyes:
 
Jun 27, 2013
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Race Radio said:
Are you trolling or do you not read your own posts?
no, i accept that ashden did not work for the UCI, misunderstanding on my part, but you made another 4 claims which you did not provide any source, thats what i wanted to know, feels a little strange other people talking on your behalf.
furthermore the rest can leave the personal attacks at home!
 
Aug 13, 2009
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timbo25 said:
no, i accept that ashden did not work for the UCI, misunderstanding on my part, but you made another 4 claims which you did not provide any source, thats what i wanted to know, feels a little strange other people talking on your behalf.
furthermore the rest can leave the personal attacks at home!
Thanks for proving my point
 
May 26, 2009
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Having some difficulty understanding WHY "Ashenden's name " was spelt wrong , then noticed the cause ! Seems the needle is blunt & stuck in a shallow groove . Wonder WHY we have to put up with repetition of FACTS already in WIKI , Google , etc ?

Wasn't it wonderful to be able to avoid reading the efforts of such an obvious pain in the derriere , until recently ?

WHEN will we hear of ALL the positives from TDF 2013 ? Has anyone left Aigle and thus an empty desk as was the last excuse ?
 
blackcat said:
so, you think AMGEN wanted any positives at the Medalists Sports ToC?

surely they could have organised a few EPO positives from Tom Zirbel in the timetrials?
What are you hinting at w/r to Zirbel?!
It shows you know nothing and just like to sling cr@p to get some feedback.
 
spetsa said:
Already a predictable outcome. Jens Voight on daily inhumane escapades, Matt Busche charging up the slopes, Tommy D., and company finally finding their racing legs this year, and Mancebo showing that he still belongs. Should be a sh*t show of epic proportions. Pretty sad really.
c'mon, who at this race is SUPPOSED to beat these guys? It's not exactly a world-tour caliber race. Even the euros who do bother to come over don't peak for it. If the few protour (or in Mancebo's case, former protour) riders who show up to this kind of event are the protagonists, that makes a lot more sense than what you see at the Tour of Turkey or Tour de San Luis where locals mix it up or even beat the big names.
 
Jan 23, 2013
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Benotti69 said:
Vaughter's smart enough not to try and sell the impossible to those who didn't buy it in 1999 and after Armstrong getting popped the general fan population.
He's smart enough not to pull the house down on top of himself, that's for sure.

Still, his words in the article linked a few posts above are definately the strongest words of suspicion I have heard from him - or any other DS for that matter.

Maybe he's working towards the MBA to make a bid for UCI chief. Or maybe he's planning on starting a rival league. Earning an MBA isn't a lot of fun, and JV has been plenty successful without one. So, I wonder what he has as an agenda?
 
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