UCI screws Astana

[Race Radio]

it's clearly not either/or...
we know (and knew well before the stream of positives) that he's running a dirty team.
only relevant question, imo, is whether or not UCI/WADA have put in an extra effort to grab Astana by the balls or whether Astana are just massively failing the IQ test.

I like the idea of extra effort to catch dopers. Target testing is a key part of anti doping and has caught many riders. Off the top of my head I know it caught Di Lucca, David George, and others. It does not mean there is a grand conspiracy it manes the ADA's are doing their job

 

[sniper]

I like the idea of extra effort to catch dopers. Target testing is a key part of anti doping and has caught many riders. Off the top of my head I know it caught Di Lucca, David George, and others. It does not mean there is a grand conspiracy it manes the ADA's are doing their job

fair point.
but that does suggest a bias on the part of UCI.
Astana has not performed better than Saxo and/or Sky, so why target Astana and not the other two?
Sky have given UCI plenty of reasons to target them. Leinders, dodgy TUEs, crazy transformations, to name just a few issues.

 

[Race Radio]

fair point.
but that does suggest a bias on the part of UCI.
Astana has not performed better than Saxo and/or Sky, so why target Astana and not the other two?
Sky have given UCI plenty of reasons to target them. Leinders, dodgy TUEs, crazy transformations, to name just a few issues.

Froome, Contador, Horner, many others are target tested. Over 30 times per year.

 

[sniper]

Froome, Contador, Horner, many others are target tested. Over 30 times per year.

Froome, really?
Plus, we're talking about a whole team pro plus continental being targeted here by UCI, not just the team's top dog.
(In fact, have they target tested Nibali at all?)

Edit: one of the things that becomes nicely clear in Hajo's documentary on Russia is how the Russians let lesser dogs test positive while holding a protecting hand above the heads of the top dogs.
IAAF/Jamaica/Bolt and UCI/Astana/Nibali have that same smell to it.

 

[Race Radio]

Froome, really?
Plus, we're talking about a whole team pro plus continental being targeted here by UCI, not just the team's top dog.
(In fact, have they target tested Nibali at all?)

Edit: one of the things that becomes nicely clear in Hajo's documentary on Russia is how the Russians let lesser dogs test positive while holding a protecting hand above the heads of the top dogs.
IAAF/Jamaica/Bolt and UCI/Astana/Nibali have that same smell to it.

By July 18 2013 Froome had already been tested 48 times for the year. IIRC Horner was tested 43 times......10 times in the 3rd quarter alone.

It is increasingly clear tests are more of an IQ test because they sure are not catching too many dopers

 

[sniper]

By July 18 2013 Froome had already been tested 48 times for the year. IIRC Horner was tested 43 times......10 times in the 3rd quarter alone.

thanks for that. But point remains that UCI seem to have been targeting the whole of Astana, not just the top dog. Have they done similar with Sky?

It is increasingly clear tests are more of an IQ test because they sure are not catching too many dopers

fair point.
but there still seems quite a big difference in the way UCIhave dealt with Sky 1. giving them emergency TUE under odd circumstances
2. publicly acknowledging JTL wasn't their fault
3. the Henao case
it all went in favor of Sky.

Also, as Benotti also noted upthread, Astana have the experienced Martinello on board, which makes one wonder if they are really failing the IQ test.

 

[Benotti69]

By July 18 2013 Froome had already been tested 48 times for the year. IIRC Horner was tested 43 times......10 times in the 3rd quarter alone.

It is increasingly clear tests are more of an IQ test because they sure are not catching too many dopers

Does UCI not have the final say on cycling positives?

It could be possible that riders fails tests and UCI buries it. They sure tried to bury Contador's clen positive.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Does UCI not have the final say on cycling positives?

It could be possible that riders fails tests and UCI buries it. They sure tried to bury Contador's clen positive.

...Burie$ it...

UCI wouldn't do it on a whim.

 

[Race Radio]

Also, as Benotti also noted upthread, Astana have the experienced Martinello on board, which makes one wonder if they are really failing the IQ test.

Martinello is smart enough to distance himself from the day to day management of the program.

I don't think that there is a correlation between the number of positives and the number of tests. All the Astana positives came from in competition testing, that points more to failing the IQ test then being targeted with OOC tests.

 

[Race Radio]

Does UCI not have the final say on cycling positives?

It could be possible that riders fails tests and UCI buries it. They sure tried to bury Contador's clen positive.

I might be missing something but I don't see a believable reason why the UCI would want Astana to test positive. They pump millions into the sport. Would think that the UCI would be more inclined to keep them happy then punish them

 

[sniper]

Martinello is smart enough to distance himself from the day to day management of the program.

I don't think that there is a correlation between the number of positives and the number of tests. All the Astana positives came from in competition testing, that points more to failing the IQ test then being targeted with OOC tests.

fair point, admittedly.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Martinello is smart enough to distance himself from the day to day management of the program.

I don't think that there is a correlation between the number of positives and the number of tests. All the Astana positives came from in competition testing, that points more to failing the IQ test then being targeted with OOC tests.

Last week Herman Ram of the Dutch ADA informed us Dutch that the tests done on the Astana team members were VERY expensive. If every rider were tested that way WADA would be out of funds very quickly.

Do you really think Astana isnt target tested?

That's a rhetorical question off course.

Who cares if Astana doesnt get a Pro Tour license? A Giro without Aru? A Tour without the Shark? The World Tour - a pretty stupid idea in the first place - needs Astana, not the other way around.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Froome, Contador, Horner, many others are target tested. Over 30 times per year.

how do you know? Where do you find these numbers?

 

[Race Radio]

Last week Herman Ram of the Dutch ADA informed us Dutch that the tests done on the Astana team members were VERY expensive. If every rider were tested that way WADA would be out of funds very quickly.

Do you really think Astana isnt target tested?

That's a rhetorical question off course.

Who cares if Astana doesnt get a Pro Tour license? A Giro without Aru? A Tour without the Shark? The World Tour - a pretty stupid idea in the first place - needs Astana, not the other way around.

It appears you did not read my posts. Of course they target tested, like many questionable riders are target tested

I agree the World Tour needs Astana, which makes the idea that the UCI is trying to screw them a bit absurd.

 

[sniper]

It appears you did not read my posts. Of course they target tested, like many questionable riders.

I agree the World Tour needs Astana, which makes the idea that the UCI is trying to screw them a bit absurd.

it's not asburd if you compare it to the way UCI have treated Sky.
JTL, Henao, emergency TUEs.
UCI have continuously acted and spoken out in favor of Sky.

 

[Benotti69]

I might be missing something but I don't see a believable reason why the UCI would want Astana to test positive. They pump millions into the sport. Would think that the UCI would be more inclined to keep them happy then punish them

UCI has defied logic before.

Maybe they are worried that Vino has big($) backing and they dont want him as a 'power' in the sport.

I am speculating.

 

[Mellow Velo]

it's not asburd if you compare it to the way UCI have treated Sky.
JTL, Henao, emergency TUEs.
UCI have continuously acted and spoken out in favor of Sky.

Even if one accepts your view on JTL, Henao and the TUE, which are only an opinion, not a fact, it still doesn't make sense for the UCI to screw Astana, simple for the benefit of another squad.

As FGL says, the WT needs Astana. Already there are more spots than teams.
The UCI certainly didn't need a string of positives from any team dirtying up their "new era" promotion.

 

[Race Radio]

how do you know? Where do you find these numbers?

Many ADA's make public the testing they do. Here is USADA's

http://www.usada.org/testing/results/athlete-test-history/

Horner was tested 24 times by USADA alone in 2013. Some teams and riders also make public their numbers, but those are not as verifiable as ADA reported numbers.

 

[thehog]

Last week Herman Ram of the Dutch ADA informed us Dutch that the tests done on the Astana team members were VERY expensive. If every rider were tested that way WADA would be out of funds very quickly.

Do you really think Astana isnt target tested?

That's a rhetorical question off course.

Who cares if Astana doesnt get a Pro Tour license? A Giro without Aru? A Tour without the Shark? The World Tour - a pretty stupid idea in the first place - needs Astana, not the other way around.

Thanks for this. Which was what I was implying. Why the hell did they run EPO tests on 2 riders in 2 different countries which were effectively OOC tests.

Target testing of course but why these two who've done absolutely nothing to raise suspicion. I understand they can use the passport to target test but it's all a little fishy if you ask me... smells bad.

 

[veganrob]

Many ADA's make public the testing they do. Here is USADA's

http://www.usada.org/testing/results/athlete-test-history/

Horner was tested 24 times by USADA alone in 2013. Some teams and riders also make public their numbers, but those are not as verifiable as ADA reported numbers.

I couldn't find if it disclosed what kind of test. Blood or urine. That might make a difference.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

It appears you did not read my posts. Of course they target tested, like many questionable riders are target tested

I agree the World Tour needs Astana, which makes the idea that the UCI is trying to screw them a bit absurd.

It is clear you didnt read my post to the full. The junior - Astana's were tested for something that is only testable with a very expensive test.

That's got nothing to do with an intelligence test whatsoever, that was my point.

Are other teams being tested with the same test, for instance?

Dont think so.

Thanks for this. Which was what I was implying. Why the hell did they run EPO tests on 2 riders in 2 different countries which were effectively OOC tests.

Target testing of course but why these two who've done absolutely nothing to raise suspicion. I understand they can use the passport to target test but it's all a little fishy if you ask me... smells bad.

Yes, the coincedence is pretty fregging amazing, yet, it did amuse me a lot. This because the winner of the 2012 Liege was one of the main reasons to join this forum

 

[Race Radio]

It is clear you didnt read my post to the full. The junior - Astana's were tested for something that is only testable with a very expensive test.

That's got nothing to do with an intelligence test whatsoever, that was my point.

Are other teams being tested with the same test, for instance?

Dont think so.

Yes, the coincedence is pretty fregging amazing, yet, it did amuse me a lot. This because the winner of the 2012 Liege was one of the main reasons to join this forum

It is clear that many riders are being target tested. It has been reported over and over. You are welcome to pretend they are not but it is clear they are.

Some dopers were caught by a test and the result is a bunch of baseless speculation and rambling conspiracy theories. I did not see anyone complaining when they target tested DiLucca......and caught him. Odd.

Astana screwed themselves.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Astana screwed themselves.

Seriously.

Who knows why they started looking.?

Tip off from a rider, tip off from customs (like this recent UKAD case), maybe it is the UCI behind it, but the bottom line is the riders doped, tested positive and been found guilty.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Some dopers were caught by a test and the result is a bunch of baseless speculation and rambling conspiracy theories.

What I find is odd is the man who has fought years for the downfall of his worst enemy, is not able to see the difference between a pub rider being tested for R-Epo or being tested for alcohol abuse.

The UCI can still make one positive.

Listen, I am not saying it is not good those riders got caught, just, the coincidence is too big.

I must say I do not like your line of conspiracy stuff, I bet you must have heard that line before in your carreer of slaying your dragon.

 

[Race Radio]

Seriously.

Who knows why they started looking.?

Tip off from a rider, tip off from customs (like this recent UKAD case), maybe it is the UCI behind it, but the bottom line is the riders doped, tested positive and been found guilty.

Yup, it is starting to get rediculous. If a rider is tested often it is a conspiracy, if they are not tested it is a conspiracy, if they test positive it is a conspiracy, if they test negative it is a conspiracy, if they are caught with a new test it is a conspiracy, if they are on a big team or small team or big name or small name and they test positive it is the result of a dark conspiracy.......and if you do not buy into the speculation you are an enabler