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UCI suspends series

Aug 4, 2009
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that was my first choice either that of trying to get more money so they can travel around the world.

Cant see what the fuss is about if a race organiser is willing to put money up for a bike race he is worth supporting by both riders and UCI.

I realy dont think the UCI know how hard it is to get funding to run a race anywhere either at club level or elite.
when you get the funding the UCI want 1/2 of it.

Ah McQuaid... you've done it again!
 
Missing the Other Half

You guys are missing the other half of the story.

A bunch of Yankees are getting good start positions out of collecting points in the U.S. and they are unable to stay anywhere near that position in a World Cup event. Meanwhile, the Euros riding tougher races and starting behind Yankees. I generally agree. If the Yanks were collecting points then racing at about that position at a World Cup, then I don't think there would be as much complaining from other World Cup racers.

As it is, with the exception of Tim Johnson's World's ride last year, the Yanks did badly when they visited World Cups.

As a consequence of Yanks gaming UCI points, the UCI picked some rules to enforce and these series will be punished as a result.

I maintain that USAC's on it's way to killing another growing niche in the U.S. UCI wants it that way.
 
DirtyWorks said:
You guys are missing the other half of the story.

A bunch of Yankees are getting good start positions out of collecting points in the U.S. and they are unable to stay anywhere near that position in a World Cup event. Meanwhile, the Euros riding tougher races and starting behind Yankees. I generally agree. If the Yanks were collecting points then racing at about that position at a World Cup, then I don't think there would be as much complaining from other World Cup racers.

As it is, with the exception of Tim Johnson's World's ride last year, the Yanks did badly when they visited World Cups.

As a consequence of Yanks gaming UCI points, the UCI picked some rules to enforce and these series will be punished as a result.

I maintain that USAC's on it's way to killing another growing niche in the U.S. UCI wants it that way.

There are a lot of people who are upset that the points system isn't reflective of the ability of racers ... that is a different argument to the one of the series being banned, but I will address both.

First, the UCI points are skewed on BOTH sides of the pond. On the US side the races start early in the year and are full of double weekends with an occasional mid-week UCI. In the time you could race only 3 very stacked UCI's in US you could do 9 UCI races in the US at same time.

Now on the other side of the pond you have a Euro scene which last a full two month longer than the US scene, so the euro guys won't have all those points built up until a bit later in the year. On top of that you have the "World" Cup races of the UCI which have HUGELY skewed points verses other events. I mean, just getting listed in the results of a World Cup gives you 5 points. And this series is full of events that are all withing 10 hours driving (less one in Spain) with most (4) being within 2 hours of most places in Belgium.

So, yes the UCI ranking is skewed at the moment, but come the end of the year it will be balanced.

And to address the "problem" of the starting positions. How many riders have taken advantage of the better starting positions in World Cups? Very few (Johnson, Driscol, Powers) are the only ones that come to mind. Even recently it was only Johnson at the Koksijde World Cup. They aren't affecting the race any worst than other riders with a good start position.

Why gang up on the Americans when you have guys like Christoph PFINGSTEN, http://www.uci.ch/templates/BUILTIN-NOFRAMES/Template3/layout.asp?MenuId=MTU2MTc&LangId=1, who is in the first/second row at most World Cups, comes out in the top 5 after half a lap and then goes on to finish toward the mid to back of the pack at a World Cup (27, 33, 57th). His points are from lower level events in Germany and the Czech Republic ... should they not be counted? Christoph is just one example ...

The UCI wants cycling to grow world wide, but in doing so have forgot they are a GOVERNING body and not a PROMOTING body ... they have created a mob-like system where they control the points, the rules, the value of events and give THEIR events more value to force the riders to show up. I don't think the UCI does everything wrong, but they do make some series lack of judgement at times.

Now back to the series issue. From what I know it's going to be the overall series that is banned, not the individual races. This may mean a few of them are lost, but not all of them. After their one year ban they will be back (I think it's to harsh a punishment for the series).

That's my take on the situation ...

Gregg Germer
 
Huh?

GreggGermer said:
So, yes the UCI ranking is skewed at the moment, but come the end of the year it will be balanced.

Your balanced is my skewed. I agree to disagree because it isn't that important.

GreggGermer said:
And to address the "problem" of the starting positions. How many riders have taken advantage of the better starting positions in World Cups?

That was never my issue. You then describe what I was trying to describe. Well-placed slow markers *do* affect the race. Passing takes infinitely valuable time and energy. Fewer opportunities for a show at the sharp end of the race.

GreggGermer said:
The UCI wants cycling to grow world wide, but in doing so have forgot they are a GOVERNING body and not a PROMOTING body ..

They are both a governing and a promoting body. From way out here in the cheap seats this is obvious.

I feel sorry for the promoters that want to work with the UCI/USAC. Elaborate regulations, some of which are quite definite yet the UCI/USAC officials explicitly pick and choose the rules to follow. In that kind of environment its a certainty that a promoter will incur the UCI/USAC wrath for either not following the elaborate rules because they are lead to believe they can, or generally engendering 'bad feelings' at UCI/USAC. Then, if UCI/USAC has a goal in mind and an event conflicts with those goals said promoter is given the shaft. (Hello, Tour of Utah anyone?)
 
DirtyWorks said:
Your balanced is my skewed. I agree to disagree because it isn't that important.

I guess I didn't write my point as well as I would have liked. The ranking is skewed at the moment, but will return to a "correct" level at the end of the year once the World Cup points and extra euro races are calculated. It's going to balance out at the end of the year.

DirtyWorks said:
That was never my issue. You then describe what I was trying to describe. Well-placed slow markers *do* affect the race. Passing takes infinitely valuable time and energy. Fewer opportunities for a show at the sharp end of the race.

I don't think they affect the race as much as you think ... I've been to every World Cup this year and I never saw it change things at the top end ... it might make a *little* difference in the middle, but not at top end.

I plan on bringing a group of riders over to the US to do the first set of UCI races next year. Will it skew the rankings ... yes, but in our favor :) ... but is it good for our sport, yes ... because it will force Euros to do what North Americans have had to do every year; fly across the pond in search of points and help increase the level of the races. Morey did it this year (earning 182 points along the way) and I think soon enough more will follow.

Back on topic - A small article with Adam Myerson on the ban of the series races in the US

http://www.cxmagazine.com/future-un...ne+(Cyclocross+Magazine)&utm_content=FaceBook

-Gregg-
 
Jul 14, 2009
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this could really be the start of something great. NORBA pulled the same crap and the race promoters and racers found that it was too restrictive..but divided doesn't always mean strong. If the UCI was a big part of US racing things would be different but cyclocross..while growing like a weed in the US will have little time for some elitist BS from France..yes the top caliber races will be effected but the UCI peeing in the pool will just not get them invited in the future. If they have seen the crowds at the races they would realize it's still racer driven and to put bizzare obsticles in place at this point will only exclude them. Race promoters always need insurance that is easy to get and USA Cycling is at least doing that right..but for them not to come to the defense of the biggest race series in the US..falling down on the job..wait until the off season for the drama
 
fatandfast said:
If the UCI was a big part of US racing things would be different but cyclocross..
Except the UCI IS a big part of Yankee racing. At minimum USAC is their local proxy. That's a charitable description USAC's race-side operations.

fatandfast said:
Race promoters always need insurance that is easy to get and USA Cycling is at least doing that right..but for them not to come to the defense of the biggest race series in the US..falling down on the job..wait until the off season for the drama

As Bruce plainly states at ~9 minutes in, UCI gave the U.S. a sweetheart deal to grow the sport. http://www.cyclingdirt.org/coverage...80521-Bruce-Fina-Post-2010-USGP-of-Cyclocross IMHO, now that it's acknowledged as "growing" it picked Bruce's series over Adam's and had to manufacture a reason to strip Adam's series of its UCI designation.

Adam can get his race insurance elsewhere. For whatever reason, Adam seems to want USAC/UCI's neglect and abuse. That's not meant to disparage Adam and his longtime efforts. Is it only obvious to me the guy is giving money to the federation in 2011 that was complicit in kicking his series down quite a few notches?
 
Jul 14, 2009
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it's not that the guy wants to put up with federation hassle..you have to..licenswed riders can't do non-stanctioned events without getting suspended and or fined. You can'y pay Jeromy or Trebon start money to come to your race they have to play by federation rules.
 
fatandfast said:
it's not that the guy wants to put up with federation hassle..you have to..licenswed riders can't do non-stanctioned events without getting suspended and or fined. You can'y pay Jeromy or Trebon start money to come to your race they have to play by federation rules.

I don't get this. How come higher profile domestic riders race OBRA events like Cross Crusade without sanction? Do you have a rule book reference handy?