UCI Won't Speed Up Clentador Decision

[on3m@n@rmy]

I hate to use the phrase, but I'm glad the UCI plans to do their "due diligence" in the AC case. It would not be wise to rush the process, in spite of the whining of some, and end up making a bad decision.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I don't get you guys. You want Armstrong's head because he doped but Contidor is differant? They should be treated as equals. You dope and get caught, you should pay the price. 2 year ban. If cycling can't survive without Contidor then it can't survive.

Amen to that... thank you.

 

[python]

people, people, people, pay attention...

someone just got fully acquitted with exact same story - caught by the same lab almost at the same time and with 50% more clen in his system. his four teammates also head clen but were not charged.

and to top it, wada wont appeal to cas.

phat pat is a quack but sometimes we need to read between the lines even from a total fool: 'we're waiting for wada'.

again, if wada wont appeal the german ponger, they need a damn good story to trounce wada's own code b/c hundreds of clen convicts (more or less) will flood wada with law suits.

 

[roundabout]

wonder what exactly wada is testing?

meat samples from Irun? j/k

 

[HoustonHammer]

The part I found interesting was "We are waiting for the results to come back and I don’t know how long it’s going to take."

Results of what?

Exactly: results of WHAT?

News flash, Pat: YOUR ORGANIZATION already made a press release confirming that the riders A and B samples both came back positive for a prohibited substance!

 

[Polyarmour]

people, people, people, pay attention...

someone just got fully acquitted with exact same story - caught by the same lab almost at the same time and with 50% more clen in his system. his four teammates also head clen but were not charged.

Please enlighten us.

 

[Aguirre]

Mr. Hog, the more I read you the more agree

Contador is gonna be cleared, must be, for the good of cycling

 

[HoustonHammer]

people, people, people, pay attention...

someone just got fully acquitted with exact same story - caught by the same lab almost at the same time and with 50% more clen in his system. his four teammates also head clen but were not charged.

and to top it, wada wont appeal to cas.

phat pat is a quack but sometimes we need to read between the lines even from a total fool: 'we're waiting for wada'.

again, if wada wont appeal the german ponger, they need a damn good story to trounce wada's own code b/c hundreds of clen convicts (more or less) will flood wada with law suits.

It is not the exact same story. Not even close. The ping ponger is in a sport where there would literally be no conceivable benefit to clen use. And he tested for it while in a country where *they actually still dose cattle with Clen*. And others ('teammates' is an inference) also tested positive at the same time after reportedly eating the same meal.

None of these things apply to Clentador. Numerous doping experts have said the same thing. The ping pong case is not a helpful precedent for a cycling doper caught in Europe, alone, with Clen.

 

[Chuffy]

Not in this case. The negative test the day before the positive test rules out intentional doping with CB during the Tour. But the contaminated meat claim is also quite unlikely. There just isn't that much contaminated meat around. That makes transfusion the most likely explanation. If the DEHP results stand up, they provide strong support to that explanation.

I think the problem here is that WADA is realizing that the DEHP test results can be challenged--there's just too much variability to be certain about a positive. This is why the case is dragging on.

Yup. Fat Pat is in a tight spot with this one - it's not a neat and tidy slam-dunk. The witchfinders are demanding he builds a bonfire in time for Halloween but the reality, like it or not folks, is that UCI/WADA are going to have to work damn hard to make sure that any ban sticks and if that means extra testing, so be it. If they do a rush job to placate those of us who live in the Clinic and Bertie's lawyers challenge it and win the implications are huge. So sit tight and be patient.

 

[meandmygitane]

Mr. Hog, the more I read you the more agree

Contador is gonna be cleared, must be, for the good of cycling

Have you ever said or believed otherwise?

 

[Oldman]

Mr. Hog, the more I read you the more agree

Contador is gonna be cleared, must be, for the good of cycling

It will have to be iron-clad for the UCi one way or the other. As for the good of cycling you have got to be kidding...

 

[HoustonHammer]

Yup. Fat Pat is in a tight spot with this one - it's not a neat and tidy slam-dunk. The witchfinders are demanding he builds a bonfire in time for Halloween but the reality, like it or not folks, is that UCI/WADA are going to have to work damn hard to make sure that any ban sticks and if that means extra testing, so be it. If they do a rush job to placate those of us who live in the Clinic and Bertie's lawyers challenge it and win the implications are huge. So sit tight and be patient.

The problem is if they want to throw the book at him, they already have all they need right now because the rules are very black and white. The guy had dope in his system. Full stop. AC has to prove that he had no fault in the matter; as far a I know, there is zero precedent for success at that with CAS.

Therefore, the waiting can only mean they are considering backing off from a full penalty. And since they know that will stink to high heaven, they're getting their ducks in a row to make the case that they've only served justice. Their initial plan was to keep the whole thing hushed up and the only reason they dropped that was the German media learning about it through a leak. Fat Pat's actions make his intentions pretty clear.

 

[Dewulf]

probably won't happen but i'd like to see a 1 year ban for "accidental and very low level" positives. UCI can say "hey AC, we accept you mightn't have meant it, but fact is you shoulda been more careful about what you eat". Course he loses the tdf, but he can continue to say he didn't mean to dope. the only problem? well the precedent set by Li Fuyu's case, but then isn't it the spanish authorities who decide the penalty?

 

[Polish]

The problem is if they want to throw the book at him, they already have all they need right now because the rules are very black and white. The guy had dope in his system. Full stop. AC has to prove that he had no fault in the matter; as far a I know, there is zero precedent for success at that with CAS.

Therefore, the waiting can only mean they are considering backing off from a full penalty. And since they know that will stink to high heaven, they're getting their ducks in a row to make the case that they've only served justice. Their initial plan was to keep the whole thing hushed up and the only reason they dropped that was the German media learning about it through a leak. Fat Pat's actions make his intentions pretty clear.

I do not think anyone could argue with your good analysis of the situation.

Seems to be a lose/lose unfortunately...

If Albert is banned, we fans will miss some great racing - the course is well suited for a Alberto/Andy rematch:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/10/20/3042982.htm?site=sport&section=more

If Alberto is not banned, the "stink" you speak of will be evident at the 2011 Tour with the fans booing and jeering Alberto even more than they did in 2010:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-wNgH0VJuA
.
.
.

 

[Berzin]

The problem is that they've done 1 or 2 year bans for others in various sports based on the same rules. Excepting him from a punishment similar to what others have received for the same positive test just because he's a TDF champion will smell very bad... very much like the favoritism shown to a certain rider from Texas everyone hates here.

We've seen this a million times in real life. Different set of rules for different people. This situation right here is no different.

I hate to be the one to say it because I'm a Contador fan, so it will seem like fanboy drivel at it's worst.

But the UCI are thinking long and hard about what a non-Contador Tour will mean for cycling's bottom line next year.

The other cats caught with clenbutarol in their system who could have made similar arguments as Contador have the distinct disadvantage of being relative nobodies in the sport.

Very easy to marginalize an anonymous rider who never features in the pro ranks. Not the same with Alberto.

Everyone can speculate all they want about how the clen got in his system. Bottom line is it was a minuscule amount that had no performance benefit whatsoever.

So leeway will probably be given to other riders going forward, but the chances of Contador going down for this are pretty small. He makes too much money for too many people for him to get a ban.

Welcome all Armstrong chickens-they have come home to roost.

 

[mightymac12]

A two-year ban and the stripping of his Tour title would be like giving someone caught with 5 kilos of cocaine the same sentence as someone who was caught with a joint in his pocket.

It's stupid, it doesn't make sense and it will not act as the deterrent many think it will.

Couldn't disagree more. This is not a matter of substance potency, its about punishing those who break the rules. If you get caught taking a banned substance of any kind you should pay the price. Your attitude of "ahhh forgive him its Contador" is bound to create a monster that cannot be controlled. Look at Mr. Armstrongs beginnings...

All I am saying is set a zero-tolerance protocol. Until a zero-tolerance policy is actually enforced you cannot claim that it won't work as a deterrent.

 

[python]

Please enlighten us.

if you quoted the rest of that post, it might have enlightened you, can't speak of the rest of 'us'.

 

[scribe]

Cycling will lose "credibility"? Seriously? You think? What now? Since the Tour has been totally clean since 1999.

Fool.

Cycling will lose credibility if they remove Contador.

Think before you write Junior.

Wow. You post from a pogo stick, dont you?

 

[scribe]

Couldn't disagree more. This is not a matter of substance potency, its about punishing those who break the rules. If you get caught taking a banned substance of any kind you should pay the price. Your attitude of "ahhh forgive him its Contador" is bound to create a monster that cannot be controlled. Look at Mr. Armstrongs beginnings...

All I am saying is set a zero-tolerance protocol. Until a zero-tolerance policy is actually enforced you cannot claim that it won't work as a deterrent.

Great avatar!

 

[hrotha]

Part of me thinks this - that the smaller the offence, the smaller the punishment, because that's kinda logical.

But, it's still doping, and there might be/probably is other stuff that they didn't find/can't get a ban for, and that part of me thinks there should be big bans for all.

I think 1 year ban for a 'minor drug bust/contamination accident' and 2 yrs+ for the major stuff - EPO, whatever..

The problem with this, I think, is that we know dopers don't use a single drug or a single method, and we also know dopers are beating the tests. It follows that even if someone only tested positive for one substance, the most likely possibility is that they used other PEDs and banned methods as well, but managed to avoid a positive. If the tests were more effective I would agree with your reasoning.

 

[python]

It is not the exact same story. Not even close. The ping ponger is in a sport where there would literally be no conceivable benefit to clen use. And he tested for it while in a country where *they actually still dose cattle with Clen*. And others ('teammates' is an inference) also tested positive at the same time after reportedly eating the same meal.

None of these things apply to Clentador. Numerous doping experts have said the same thing. The ping pong case is not a helpful precedent for a cycling doper caught in Europe, alone, with Clen.

you often pride yourself in quoting the regulations, rules and codes...then do your self a favour and read the wada code about strict liability and threashold substances.

repeat:

5 german athletes tested positive for clenbuterol - no charges filed, no appeals expected from wada. Why ?

any clenbuterol found is supposed to result in a doping violation automatically. you, among others, expect that from contador. 5 germans avoided it. their urines were tested and found with clen by the same lab that tested berto. why are they not charged ?

what i suggested is that these are the questions wada is struggling with when they consider contador's case which is essentially the same - about clenbuterol positive.

 

[Polish]

repeat:

5 german athletes tested positive for clenbuterol - no charges filed, no appeals expected from wada. Why ?
.

Germany's Ping Pong Federation (DTTB) takes a very lackadaisical approach towards doping in comparision to the German Cycling Federation (BDR).

WADA should put its foot down.
Any Pro Athlete competing in China will now be able to use Clen and give the silly "meat" excuse.

It is a slippery slope from ping pong to cycle doping....

 

[AussieGoddess]

Bertie, are you paying attention??

The UCI needs a donation. A BIG one.

ROFL. quote of the day

Everyone can speculate all they want about how the clen got in his system. Bottom line is it was a minuscule amount that had no performance benefit whatsoever.

The problem is that the explanation of why there is only a miniscule amount in his system.

If you accept is bullcrap *cough* ... I mean meat contamination story, then yes he would not have received any benefit.

If not - the only other plausible explanation is a transfusion. Then not only is he gaining a benefit from transfusing, but he gained a benefit from the original (arguably much larger) clenb dose of which traces remained in the extracted blood.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

you often pride yourself in quoting the regulations, rules and codes...then do your self a favour and read the wada code about strict liability and threashold substances.

repeat:

5 german athletes tested positive for clenbuterol - no charges filed, no appeals expected from wada. Why ?

any clenbuterol found is supposed to result in a doping violation automatically. you, among others, expect that from contador. 5 germans avoided it. their urines were tested and found with clen by the same lab that tested berto. why are they not charged ?

what i suggested is that these are the questions wada is struggling with when they consider contador's case which is essentially the same - about clenbuterol positive.

You're jumping the gun here.

Firstly Ovtcharov's case has been heard by his Federation - as is the proper way to deal with it.

Just because Schaenzer's lab is an accredited WADA lab does not mean that WADA will not pursue this case.

Ovtcharov's case is different as he used the 'No Fault or Negligence' within the rules - Contador has done nothing to show the same.

 

[ChrisE]

We've seen this a million times in real life. Different set of rules for different people. This situation right here is no different.

I hate to be the one to say it because I'm a Contador fan, so it will seem like fanboy drivel at it's worst.

But the UCI are thinking long and hard about what a non-Contador Tour will mean for cycling's bottom line next year.

The other cats caught with clenbutarol in their system who could have made similar arguments as Contador have the distinct disadvantage of being relative nobodies in the sport.

Very easy to marginalize an anonymous rider who never features in the pro ranks. Not the same with Alberto.

Everyone can speculate all they want about how the clen got in his system. Bottom line is it was a minuscule amount that had no performance benefit whatsoever.

So leeway will probably given to other riders going forward, but the chances of Contador going down for this are pretty small. He makes too much money for too many people for him to get a ban.

Welcome all Armstrong chickens-they have come home to roost.

Ding ding! We have a winner for the biggest hypocrite in cyberspace. Special rules for his hero AC, bogus "it was too small to have a benefit" rant while dismissing the possibility of degradation in the body or transfusions, etc. for this "fanboy" with the EPO slamming Berzin as his hero avatar. All the while a main part of the mob after LA.

Only in the clinic.