USADA-Armstrong Phase II

[MarkvW]

This is volcanic stuff. Can anybody translate this from the French?

http://www.20minutes.fr/sport/cyclisme/990603-armstrong-prevenu-avant-tous-controles-selon-afld

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The American people are responding, with their wallets

http://espn.go.com/olympics/cycling...ees-78k-donations-25-times-greater-normal-day

It reminds me of the old saying - "A fool and his money are easily parted".

seriously, i think you can end the smearing of his charity now. it has taken a big hit from this anyway.

someone can't spend so much time directly helping other people and not be sincere about it. you need to deal with the reality that people have complex personalities. he can view normal people differently to rivals in the sport or people whose actions are trying to ruin his reputation. armstong is a human being.

Sorry BPC -no-one is trying to ruin his reputation.
People were asked what they witnessed - his reputation is as a doped up fraud who bought and bullied his way out of having his career exposed.

 

[JA.Tri]

this is an absurd picture. i know all about armstrong. he is a highly strung character that did not react in the most professional of ways to people who tried to destroy his career by revealing information about him. perhaps knowing he has character defaults, he also has done a lot of good for people to offset this - more than everybody here combined. he also has a lot of friends in the sport, as you can see from the reactions from many people, so clearly he could be a nice guy as well. he is a very intelligent guy.

at what point do you end this cartoon character villian portrayal of armstrong? you really think, on top of the other punishment he has now received, he should go to jail for calling someone fat or trying to stop them writing doping articles about him? i think its time for you guys to move on, or you risk looking like a much bigger bully than the person you hate.

people who tried to destroy his career
Emotive and misleading. For the most part people were:

not seeking to destroy LA's career that was simply a "side effect"
simply telling the truth in response to external influences

lot of good for people to offset this - more than everybody here combined

bad faith actions are justified by "perceived" good behaviour? Redemption is generally given/acknowledged given genuine remorse and restitution.

what point do you end this cartoon character villian portrayal

given your comments I really believe you have little understanding of just what LA has done!

 

[thehog]

If I understand the what this article is implying, and with the UCI is asking for evidence be made available to all parties, Armstrong might have the basis for a cival case against the USADA if they did not follow their own protocal in reaching their decision. He may never get his titles back, but a cival case might be very easy an easy win if USADA has gone around it's own rules.

Thus, he may have the last blow in the court of public opinion. Cival cases require a lower burdern of proof and tend to favor the plaintiff (Armstrong) and would give him, in theory, more control over the exposing the faults, if any, of the USADA decisison.

http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2012/08/24/texas-fold-em/

....and just when you thought he was sick of fighting this nonsense...

Don't be ridiculous. He's not going to be taking any action. He will be fighting civil suits taken against him.

What are you hoping for at of all this? That somehow he gets a "win" on some technicality? Is that wat you want?

Strange man you are Billy.

 

[Stingray34]

Yeah, my mom sees sport as her only salvation. . . .
Get real.

Your mom isn't the entire Anglo-American world.

Rhubroma's onto something and you've actually exhibited it: an English-speaking tendency is to particularise into egocentric self and object.

It's Descartes fault.

 

[thehog]

This is volcanic stuff. Can anybody translate this from the French?

http://www.20minutes.fr/sport/cyclisme/990603-armstrong-prevenu-avant-tous-controles-selon-afld

That it is. Says he was warned of all controls. They gave him xx minutes warning to dilute his blood etc.

And he asked the French president to remove Bordry.

 

[Benotti69]

It reminds me of the old saying - "A fool and his money are easily parted".



Sorry BPC -no-one is trying to ruin his reputation.
People were asked what they witnessed - his reputation is as a doped up fraud who bought and bullied his way out of having his career exposed.

Well spotted.

 

[eleven]

Many stories emerged yesterday regarding the tight-lipped responses of the majority of pros both at the Vuelta and the Pro Tour Challenge. This is understandable. In my profession, I would never publicly deride a colleague or former colleague no matter how much of an amoral, thieving a**hole I thought they were. And for the younger generation of cyclists - they want the focus of attention on what they are trying to do - not on the past. Fine. Check.

But what I am BEYOND frustrated about is the complete lack of backlash from the public on Armstrong. Consider:

1) Livestrong donations were up 25X yesterday over the previous day.

2) He is racing today in a mountain bike race where he will no doubt be cheered on.

3) Spectators at the Pro Tour Challenge were holding "Free Lance" signs.

4) This video polling opinions at the Pro Tour - all angry with USADA: http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-c...usa-pro-challenge-2012#/video/all/created/d/1

5) He's not lost a single sponsorship dollar.

I used to think that once USADA acted, LA would finally be seen for what he is by the majority. Didn't happen. Then I thought, well maybe if USADA releases the evidence, people will wake up. That won't happen either. I think USADA could come out with photographs of him torturing puppies and he will still be adored, and Nike will design a new shoe for him to kick dogs' head in.

Like I said in an earlier post in the USADA phase I thread, he's just a man. A man who has cleverly duped millions into believing he's a saint. But he is no more to blame for that than the stupidity of the millions who have allowed themselves to be duped, quite honestly. I fear that I'm never going to be satisfied with this outcome.

Sorry for the rant. Thanks ever to everyone in the Clinic. Despite my blinding frustration, it has become a place of refuge....

I suspect your disappointment and frustration will continue - and perhaps get worse. The level and exposure of the events in which he competes in the future will likely be much higher than the exposure of a random mtn bike race.

 

[MarkvW]

Your mom isn't the entire Anglo-American world.

Rhubroma's onto something and you've actually exhibited it: an English-speaking tendency is to particularise into egocentric self and object.

It's Descartes fault.

There are a LOT of American mothers who don't give a tinker's da*mn about American sport. And grandmothers, etc. If you knew America, you'd know that.


But if you want to rag against English speakers, be my guest.

 

[Arnout]

This is volcanic stuff. Can anybody translate this from the French?

http://www.20minutes.fr/sport/cyclisme/990603-armstrong-prevenu-avant-tous-controles-selon-afld

Translated this message in the thread about reaction from the peloton.

 

[Fausto's Schnauzer]

This is volcanic stuff. Can anybody translate this from the French?

http://www.20minutes.fr/sport/cyclisme/990603-armstrong-prevenu-avant-tous-controles-selon-afld

GOOGLE TRANSLATE VERSION
CYCLING - This allowed him to tamper with ...

Lance Armstrong, struck for life and deprived of his seven victories in the Tour de France by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (Usada), was "warned before all the controls," says Saturday, scientific advisor to the French Agency for the fight against Doping in Le Monde.

"The samplers have struggled to carry out spot checks without Lance Armstrong can benefit from a period of twenty minutes," said Michel Rieu in an interview with the daily, to explain how Armstrong has escaped the vigilance of doctors samplers.

Saline and artificial urine

"He was warned before all the checks," he adds. "In twenty minutes, a lot of manipulations are possible. He made infusions of saline to dilute the blood. He replaced his own urine by an artificial urine. It is administered EPO in small doses. The substance was undetectable. Without information from the police or customs, it was impossible to fight this way. "

The Usada on the faith of "more than a dozen" testimony and "evidence", accuses Armstrong of having doped for years, especially at the time of his seven victories in the Tour de France ( 1999-2005), that challenges the American, who reminds the environment he has never tested positive despite the hundreds of tests he underwent during his career.

To be informed of the arrival of samplers, Armstrong had many supporters, says Rieu. "This support overflowed into the UCI (International Cycling Union, ed) and the International Olympic Committee. Also, Lance Armstrong was surrounded by scientific physiologists, some of which are discarded thereafter, "he explains.

Friend of Nicolas Sarkozy

"He had considerable resources to protect and implement logistics. It was rumored that he had made the transfer blood from the United States in his private jet, "he adds. Mr. Rieu ensures that the influence of American rider was such that he was able to push start the former president of the AFLD Pierre Bordry, who resigned in September 2010, nine months after the end of its mandate.

"In October 2009, Armstrong was invited to lunch at the Elysée. Behind this visit, we know he wanted to get out of the AFLD president Pierre Bordry. Who resigned a year later. In March 2010, Armstrong gave a bike to the Head of State ", which at the time was Nicolas Sarkozy said he.

"A few months later, the president took a stage of the Tour Lance Armstrong to build a model of youth. It was unfair, "says he.

 

[Stingray34]

There are a LOT of American mothers who don't give a tinker's da*mn about American sport. And grandmothers, etc. If you knew America, you'd know that.


But if you want to rag against English speakers, be my guest.

And fathers too, I imagine. The freaky, creepy kind?

 

[ManInFull]

That it is. Says he was warned of all controls. They gave him xx minutes warning to dilute his blood etc.

And he asked the French president to remove Bordry.

Who is making these incredible claims and why now? Does this further implicate UCI?

 

[COMO CYCO]

I suspect your disappointment and frustration will continue - and perhaps get worse. The level and exposure of the events in which he competes in the future will likely be much higher than the exposure of a random mtn bike race.

I think you are right.

Remember the signs of "Landis is a Rat" at the Tour of California after Floyd told all and named names?

Not a single act of protest to Lance racing once again in Aspen today: http://msn.foxsports.com/cycling/st...kes-part-in-bike-race-amid-controversy-082512

Tomorrow he runs in a marathon - where a lot more 'nothing' will happen.

 

[Benotti69]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/blazin-saddles/armstrong-seven-crime-tour-rider-104143262.html

"Armstrong, seven-crime Tour rider"

In a bullish statement, Armstrong wheeled out his faltering defence of being the most tested athlete in the world, once again stressing the "zero physical evidence" held against him.

(It should be noted that over the past five years, USADA has busted around 50 athletes, including Marion Jones, who passed around 160 drugs tests in her career before being outed as a chronic doper.)

(Given that cycling is an Olympic sport that follows the World Anti-Doping Code, USADA does certainly have the jurisdiction to do this — although it remains to be seen how the UCI and the Tour organisers ASO react, especially given their supposed roles in the whole Lance fandango.)

The French newspaper L'Express published an article on the morning after Armstrong give up the fight in which it published quotes from a French journalist expressing his opinion that 92% of winners of the Tour in the 40 years between 1967 and 2007 were dopers.

The journalist said that after in-depth investigations he had found that 35% of riders who competed during those years had at least once broken the rules or been linked to doping. "It gets worse the higher up you get in the classification," said Pierre Ballester. "It rises to 60% of riders who finished in the top 10, 75% who made the podium and 92% of winners."

About time Blazing Saddles wrote something decent but then blows it all with his BS line at the end. Idiot.

 

[eleven]

I think you are right.

Remember the signs of "Landis is a Rat" at the Tour of California after Floyd told all and named names?

Not a single act of protest to Lance racing once again in Aspen today: http://msn.foxsports.com/cycling/st...kes-part-in-bike-race-amid-controversy-082512

Tomorrow he runs in a marathon - where a lot more 'nothing' will happen.

Roger Clemens is returning to professional baseball and will likely pitch for the Astros in September. Barry Bonds will be in the front office for the SFO Giants in a couple years. Mark McGwire is leading the St Louis Cardinals hitters to the best offense in the league.

While I think "something" will happen, it won't reach the level of public dismissal that many here wish for.

 

[Benotti69]

Who is making these incredible claims and why now? Does this further implicate UCI?

I hope so. But it does say something about it all that thi stuff is only coming out now. That needs to be addressed. Is that the media knew and did nothing or that it was allowed to happen because it was Armstrong.

I still cant believe he got away with his 20minute shower in 2009/10 when the OOC came knocking and Armstrong had to run and hide in the shower.

 

[OldManThyme]

I think you are right.

Remember the signs of "Landis is a Rat" at the Tour of California after Floyd told all and named names?

Not a single act of protest to Lance racing once again in Aspen today: http://msn.foxsports.com/cycling/st...kes-part-in-bike-race-amid-controversy-082512

Tomorrow he runs in a marathon - where a lot more 'nothing' will happen.

Worrying to see the near total domination of uneducated fanatic pro-LA supporters on the message board of the FOX sports link you gave....

 

[BillytheKid]

....and just when you thought he was sick of fighting this nonsense...

Don't be ridiculous. He's not going to be taking any action. He will be fighting civil suits taken against him.

What are you hoping for at of all this? That somehow he gets a "win" on some technicality? Is that wat you want?

Strange man you are Billy.

Then the article's strange as well. I just agree it is not in his nature, and if you read his statement, it does begin the ground work for cival action. You may not be familiar with our cival law system.

1. Most suits are heard if there there is reason to believe harm has been done. This would include damages due to something such as a ruling well outside the USADA's own set of rules.

2. He certainly has the fire power and the backing.

3. Members of the USADA would then face in a courtroom questioning at the disposal of Armstrongs lawyers. They would set the agenda. It is a court that would not be able to return his titles, but could find against the USADA or its members.

It does all hinge on how the USADA went about it business. I do not find the article strange at all and it might well be right on target.

You wanted to talk about Phase II?

 

[gree0232]

I think you are right.

Remember the signs of "Landis is a Rat" at the Tour of California after Floyd told all and named names?

Not a single act of protest to Lance racing once again in Aspen today: http://msn.foxsports.com/cycling/st...kes-part-in-bike-race-amid-controversy-082512

Tomorrow he runs in a marathon - where a lot more 'nothing' will happen.

Well, what are you doing about it? Maybe you should travel there and protest?

Or you could do a whole lot of nothing like happened with Tyler Hamilton, Betsy and Frabnk Andreau, Ballister and Walsh ... clearly silent, in fact, all the Armstrong critics are ... not silent. Odd.

But heh, everything Landis did was clearly unemotional, and must be above board if it helps us chase down the white whale.

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

not seeking to destroy LA's career that was simply a "side effect"
simply telling the truth in response to external influences

i purposely framed it from armstrong's point of view to show you how it seemed to him. from his position, what they were doing could destroy his reputation, and he was a highly strung character that overeacted to such events. he should have brushed it off. if he didn't rub people up the wrong way in the first place, a lot of these people would not have come out - Emma O'relly and Betsy for instance. maybe if he hasn't been so arrogant at times, a lot of the riders would have held their nerve when the USADA came calling, rather than simply betraying him to save their own skin. i'm not denying at all that he has character defaults. he has paid for these defaults dearly.

bad faith actions are justified by "perceived" good behaviour? Redemption is generally given/acknowledged given genuine remorse and restitution.

he's not remorseful at all for doping, like landis is not remorseful. it's what they believed was necessary at the time in the pro peloton, and lot of informed observers tacitly accept this so think armstrong has been harshly treated. it is hard to know about cycling and not think armstrong has got a hard rap here. that's my view.

given your comments I really believe you have little understanding of just what LA has done!

i think i have the same understanding of LA as most people in pro cycling. he will continue to be a very divisive figure.

 

[TShame]

Logic or Prejudice?

USADA have the proof and would have presented it, but Armstrong did not give them the chance. USADA treat this a pleading guilty, and move to sentencing.

MORBIUS

They may SAY they have proof, but they have shown nothing.
Not one piece of evidence was given to Lance's lawyers.
How can one prepare a defense if they were not given the upcoming "proof" or a list of alleged witnesses willing to testify in open court??

I am not naive, but I don't believe he doped every single damn time.
So, USADA alone and only they can detect doped blood?!!!
Everyone else read the reports and concluded the opposite?
Even to say he doped for all 7 Tours, then decided on a comeback that had little chance of victory, and Lance said what? "Hell, I'm going to risk all my past victories by taking some top-notch dope to beat Contador and Schleck and Evans." Are you kidding me? Tell me that makes sense.

The only factor I would like to see is how did Lance have enough Testosterone with only one ball?
Either he is the greatest rider ever or he was the best doper of all time.
I think being an uncaught doper is more impossible than being the best rider.
And if he didn't want to get caught, tell me he decided to shoot all the main drugs as some sort of EPO, HGH, Testosterone cocktail in front of every rider ever on his team??

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Roger Clemens is returning to professional baseball and will likely pitch for the Astros in September. Barry Bonds will be in the front office for the SFO Giants in a couple years. Mark McGwire is leading the St Louis Cardinals hitters to the best offense in the league.

While I think "something" will happen, it won't reach the level of public dismissal that many here wish for.

The opinions of the ignorant have never altered reality. The reality is that Armstrong is a fraud. Nothing will ever change that.

 

[gjdavis60]

So you're from LieStrong no surprise there.

Name the good he has done for people. Lance made a few people rich on his success as well as making himself rich. The rest is BS.

Not Liestrong. That place raised $500million for their own ends, not for cancer. They sell cancer awareness. They dont fund cancer research. They sit around all day scouring the internet for stuff to put on their website and troll forums bad mouthing liestrong and Armstrong.

You dont know what the 10,000 members on here have done as they dont publicise it to the nth degree with a huge publicity team.

Call them what they are: lobbyists for the cancer industry.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

MORBIUS

They may SAY they have proof, but they have shown nothing.
Not one piece of evidence was given to Lance's lawyers.
How can one prepare a defense if they were not given the upcoming "proof" or a list of alleged witnesses willing to testify in open court??

I am not naive, but I don't believe he doped every single damn time.
So, USADA alone and only they can detect doped blood?!!!
Everyone else read the reports and concluded the opposite?
Even to say he doped for all 7 Tours, then decided on a comeback that had little chance of victory, and Lance said what? "Hell, I'm going to risk all my past victories by taking some top-notch dope to beat Contador and Schleck and Evans." Are you kidding me? Tell me that makes sense.

The only factor I would like to see is how did Lance have enough Testosterone with only one ball?
Either he is the greatest rider ever or he was the best doper of all time.
I think being an uncaught doper is more impossible than being the best rider.
And if he didn't want to get caught, tell me he decided to shoot all the main drugs as some sort of EPO, HGH, Testosterone cocktail in front of every rider ever on his team??

Yes, you are.