USADA-Armstrong Phase II

[Benotti69]

. she has never admitted to intentionally taking PEDs. only that she lied to the grand jury by denying she took what she thought was flaxseed oil.

she told oprah all about it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ewja4q0z7s

uh duh "'By November 2003, I realized he was giving me performance-enhancing drugs.'"

She realised it was drugs. she said it to the judge.

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

uh duh "'By November 2003, I realized he was giving me performance-enhancing drugs.'"

She realised it was drugs. she said it to the judge.

she no longer took it, according to her. watch the interview. she was as shocked as anybody to find out.

 

[Benotti69]

she no longer took it, according to her. watch the interview. she was as shocked as anybody to find out.

I know her story. Going on Oprah was pr. end of.

 

[Kennf1]

In addition to the witnesses mentioned in the charging letter, a new one contacted Tygart yesterday. Funny thing is, when all the evidence comes out, Armstrong supporters will complain that USADA is needlessly leaking information to smear Armstrong after the fact.

 

[Velodude]

See, this is exactly what I mean by ad hominem bullsh!t. You can't just respond to TShame's post but have to belittle another poster, ridicule and claim that I'm wearing a "yellow bracelet" that I've never owned...... <BIG snip> .....

You are doing the LA PR machine a disservice.

I, and I expect many others, do not read your extremely long winded and wordy posts.

I bet you are succinct in the briefs and written submissions you file for judges/arbiters to read in your cases.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Assuming that there is anything in the 'evidence' that we have not already seen for the past 17 years.

Lets see if we can figure out who the 'witnesses' are shall we?

#1 - Frank Andreau.

#2 - Betsy Andreau.

#3 - Greg LeMond.

#4 - Tyler Hamilton.

#5 - Floyd Landis.

#6 - **** Pound.

#7 - Paul Kimmage.

#8 - David Walsh.

#9 - Mike Anderson.

#10 - Flillipo Simeoni.

Hmmm ... clearly all these witnesses are in danger of being ... murderered or silenced like they have been for the previous ... 17 years.

Perhaps the real reason that the list of names was not released has little to do with ... the possibility that a steroid enarged LA might hunt them down and permenantly silence them ... than to the fact that this is just a rehash of what we have heard for ... 17 years now.

Be interesting to see the evidence, if we can get past the ... delays.

You've posted some dumb stuff but this might take the biscuit. If that was the genuine list that USADA were trying to convict him based off then the arbitration panel would laugh them off or it really would be a witch hunt.

LMAO at Lance showing Mr Pound his gear.

Based off this post, I think there is hope for you to get to the bottom of it, it seems you are taken in by Armstrong's Kangaroo court claims, if that was the planned witness parade. I was under the impression that you were arguing blind and didn't know one thing about cycling, just taken in by the PR. spin and comeback from cancer story.

Since you have posted a list of some of Armstrong's publicised enemies, that shows research and further research will show Armstrong indisputably doped and did his best to rid the sport of people who wanted it clean.

 

[Benotti69]

In addition to the witnesses mentioned in the charging letter, a new one contacted Tygart yesterday. Funny thing is, when all the evidence comes out, Armstrong supporters will complain that USADA is needlessly leaking information to smear Armstrong after the fact.

I would like more to come forward after the last few days have demonstrated no one is scared of Armstrong or his paid liars anymore.

I hope the Doctor from Columbia Hospital (iirc) comes forward.

 

[Microchip]

1. I already thought that And I wasn't looking around here by then.
2. He already got some money I thought, so I don't really see a good risk/reward opportunity.

I'd thought that he came out of retirement for another reason (Contador's ongoing success). RR confirmed in the first thread that he came out of retirement for financial reasons.

 

[QuickStepper]

she has not. she admitted to lying to the federal inquiry about taking what she thought was vitamins. she has never admitted to intentionally taking PEDs.

That is incorrect. Jones pled guilty to lying to Jeff Novitzky during his investigation of BALCO that she had never taken steroids. At her sentencing, she said to U.S. District Judge Kenneth Karas, "That was a lie, your honor." She also pled guilty to making false statements about her knowledge of a check fraud that was being run by her boyfriend and coach, and was sentenced to six months in federal prison for both charges. Please don't misrepresent the facts.

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

That is incorrect. Jones pled guilty to lying to Jeff Novitzky during his investigation of BALCO that she had never taken steroids. At her sentencing, she said to U.S. District Judge Kenneth Karas, "That was a lie, your honor." She also pled guilty to making false statements about her knowledge of a check fraud that was being run by her boyfriend and coach, and was sentenced to six months in federal prison for both charges. Please don't misrepresent the facts.

i appreciate it's difficult for people to get their head around it because the story is so far fetched and patently untrue. but she claims at the time she thought they were flaceed oil and never intentionally took THG. She said she lied to the federal investigation because she panicked. it was her refusal to ever admit she took them intentionally or ever had injections of EPO that led to the judge giving her a prison sentence. the oprah interview was just after she came out of prison where you can see quite clearly she is maintaining that it was never intentional.

 

[QuickStepper]

I would like more to come forward after the last few days have demonstrated no one is scared of Armstrong or his paid liars anymore.

I hope the Doctor from Columbia Hospital (iirc) comes forward.

It was Indiana University Medical Center, not Columbia.

From NPR:

Armstrong's primary cancer doctor, Craig Nichols, submitted a sworn affidavit in the case saying, "I have never seen any evidence, either from myself or any other doctor, that indicates Lance Armstrong admitted, suggested or indicated that he has ever taken performance-enhancing drugs."

No way this doctor now changes his story. He would have to admit to having committed perjury.

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

It was Indiana University Medical Center, not Columbia.

From NPR:



No way this doctor now changes his story. He would have to admit to having committed perjury.

he wouldn't want to anyway. he's a big anti cancer doctor that doesn't give a crap about some bike race in france. what he cares about is armstrong's work against cancer. priorities.

 

[QuickStepper]

You are doing the LA PR machine a disservice.

I, and I expect many others, do not read your extremely long winded and wordy posts.

I bet you are succinct in the briefs and written submissions you file for judges/arbiters to read in your cases.

If, as you say, I'm doing LA's PR people a "disservice" then what are you complaining about? You want me to help them?

And why are you responding to any portion of my long-winded post if, as you say, "I. . . do not read" them?

 

[QuickStepper]

i appreciate it's difficult for people to get their head around it because the story is so far fetched and patently untrue. but she claims at the time she thought they were flaceed oil and never intentionally took THG. She said she lied to the federal investigation because she panicked. it was her refusal to ever admit she took them intentionally or ever had injections of EPO that led to the judge giving her a prison sentence. the oprah interview was just after she came out of prison where you can see quite clearly she is maintaining that it was never intentional.

I don't want to derail this thread about USADA-Armstrong any further, and suggest that if you want to continue this discussion that you take it to PM or a track and field forum, but the fact is she admitted to making a false statement to a federal investigator and was accordingly convicted and sentenced for committing perjury. It doesn't matter why she lied. She lied.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

what's happened to armstrong over the last year and now with the USADA decision is way worse than anything that has happened to those individuals. that you think he should receive even more punishment is very vindictive.

Unbelievable.

You have to ask whether Lance - as the perpetrator of the violations - deserves to have more significant punishment and consequences than innocent people who were essentially bystanders like Anderson, O'Reily, Betsy, etc.?

Duh, yes that's exactly what I would expect.

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

I don't want to derail this thread about USADA-Armstrong any further, and suggest that if you want to continue this discussion that you take it to PM or a track and field forum, but the fact is she admitted to making a false statement to a federal investigator and was accordingly convicted and sentenced for committing perjury. It doesn't matter why she lied. She lied.

i never said she didn't. someone said she admitted it. i pointed out that it's not quite true - she claims it was unintentional. either way, even she is still knocking about as a pundit, and that is a sport that doesn't have a fan base as such.

 

[Cavalier]

It was Indiana University Medical Center, not Columbia.

From NPR:

No way this doctor now changes his story. He would have to admit to having committed perjury.

It wasn't Nichols in the room, so he doesn't have to change his evidence. Even the Andreu's acknowledged that it was two oncologists they hadn't seen before.

 

[ÅSBJÖRN BENKT]

Unbelievable.

You have to ask whether Lance - as the perpetrator of the violations - deserves to have more significant punishment and consequences than innocent people who were essentially bystanders like Anderson, O'Reily, Betsy, etc.?

Duh, yes that's exactly what I would expect.

the punishment is extremely disproportionate. saying someone doesn't like you and you think they're fat is not the same as having 14 years worth of incredible achievement being wiped out. armstrong gets far worse directed at him on twitter every day. i think people have gotten a bit carried away in making out armstrong is a big monster. you don't have to like him, but this list of stuff that gets wheeled out about him doesn't cut it now he's been punished. where's the beef?

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Because its how our system works. When you are charged with a crime, you get the evidence, not when you agree to disgree.

Armstrong wasn't charged with a crime. He was charged with sporting violations, which have their own rules of due process which may differ slightly from criminal cases in terms of timing and procedure but have the same basic underpinnings and in the end the same net effect. Armstrong signed a contract with his race license agreeing to these procedures. Any claim by you to the contrary is ignoring facts.

BTW - Armstrong disagrees with USADA's assesment, he also disagrees that the arbitration hearing being the proper format for these antics.

The subject being charged disagrees? Shocking! Good thing the U.S. federal court - which is infinitely better equipped than you to analyze and make decisions on these matters - had every confidence that Armstrong would be afforded due process during the arbitration process (that Armstrong declined).

I believe such disagreement entitles him to the full evidence against him

Armstrong was indeed entitled to hear the full evidence against him, but as noted above he declined.

Does such a process strike you as fundamentally fair?

Completely.

 

[D-Queued]

what's happened to armstrong over the last year and now with the USADA decision is way worse than anything that has happened to those individuals. that you think he should receive even more punishment is very vindictive. he is a human being. what kind of person do you want to be?

do people want to see him dead? is that where this is going?

Now that the peanut gallery has moved over from the other thread, this has again become comic relief.

Of all of the recent posts, though, thank you for this one.

So Asbjorn, what kind of person do you want to be? A shill for a multi-million dollar fraud?

Thus far, Lance has received no punishment. But, his victims have been bilked out of millions.

Should they have an opportunity to recover what they have lost? Or, should we just shrug our shoulders at them?

Maybe Lance could at least try saying "I'm sorry".

Or, would that be too much punishment for you?

Dave.

 

[Velodude]

Neineinei... don't be sorry. Be mad!

And I agree with you by the way. Sort of.

Oakley announced they are sticking by Lance also now.

I mean.. Travis.. get IT out there...

On a personal level, if Livestrong implodes, that's where I draw the line. Also, the whole rebuke/comment about "there are many cancer charities out there, don't support Livestrong since Lance cheated" is really also very dumb.

Not pointing fingers at anyone here, it's just so obvious how Livestrong trancends and goes beyond your regular charity... Young and old people, youth culture, pop culture, sports and recreation on a global level.. the yellow wristband made cancer "touchable".... talkable. Made it real. Made people DEAL with it.

Hate Lance all you want (again, who ever doubted?), but if hatred for a psychopath shoots down an international, universal cancer charity that inspires on so many levels... that would just be dumb.

I believe in your ravings you have tacitly outed yourself as a Livestrong intern.

 

[MarkvW]

Neineinei... don't be sorry. Be mad!

And I agree with you by the way. Sort of.

Oakley announced they are sticking by Lance also now.

I mean.. Travis.. get IT out there...

On a personal level, if Livestrong implodes, that's where I draw the line. Also, the whole rebuke/comment about "there are many cancer charities out there, don't support Livestrong since Lance cheated" is really also very dumb.

Not pointing fingers at anyone here, it's just so obvious how Livestrong trancends and goes beyond your regular charity... Young and old people, youth culture, pop culture, sports and recreation on a global level.. the yellow wristband made cancer "touchable".... talkable. Made it real. Made people DEAL with it.

Hate Lance all you want (again, who ever doubted?), but if hatred for a psychopath shoots down an international, universal cancer charity that inspires on so many levels... that would just be dumb.

Maybe the Lance Armstrong Foundation should officially forgive Lance for his cheating?

 

[ggusta]

Neineinei... don't be sorry. Be mad!

And I agree with you by the way. Sort of.

Oakley announced they are sticking by Lance also now.

I mean.. Travis.. get IT out there...

On a personal level, if Livestrong implodes, that's where I draw the line. Also, the whole rebuke/comment about "there are many cancer charities out there, don't support Livestrong since Lance cheated" is really also very dumb.

Not pointing fingers at anyone here, it's just so obvious how Livestrong trancends and goes beyond your regular charity... Young and old people, youth culture, pop culture, sports and recreation on a global level.. the yellow wristband made cancer "touchable".... talkable. Made it real. Made people DEAL with it.

Hate Lance all you want (again, who ever doubted?), but if hatred for a psychopath shoots down an international, universal cancer charity that inspires on so many levels... that would just be dumb.

Lance, is that you? Holy cow.

I have printed this post out and put it in my wallet for when I am having a really bad day and need to smile about smething.

Full on Battleship Galac-tard. What the heck are they putting in the Kool-aid? You're gonna put the makers of ecstasy out of business!

It's like your brain completely spun out the gear. But when all you have is a 34X32 and you're going downhill you have to expect that.

 

[ggusta]

i never said she didn't. someone said she admitted it. i pointed out that it's not quite true - she claims it was unintentional. either way, even she is still knocking about as a pundit, and that is a sport that doesn't have a fan base as such.

But even if it was unintentional, she still failed less dope tests than Lance which goes to show passing tests means nothing. Conte (from BALCO) just stated days ago that passing doping tests is really an IQ test.

Even with his failed tests, I think he is smart. A very smart liar, fraud and cheat. But smart nonetheless.

 

[dadane]

Anyone got access to the Sunday Times online? Walsh is back in business.