USADA - Armstrong

[MarkvW]

He said things that sounded somewhat 'supportive' of armstrong but the way he said them was pretty flat and canned ...like 'yeah, whatever'....

If Big George is out of cycling next year, what on Earth will compel him to attend the arbitration hearing? I can't think of anything except his personal sense of honor, whatever that is.

 

[thehog]

If Big George is out of cycling next year, what on Earth will compel him to attend the arbitration hearing? I can't think of anything except his personal sense of honor, whatever that is.

The day Carlos Sastre has more titles than Armstrong will be a happy day.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Apologies if already posted, but the NY Times confirms with two people close to the investigation, suggesting it's not a LA team leak after all.



www.nytimes.com/2012/07/06/sports/cycling/former-teammates-to-testify-against-armstrong.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Sorry, but I don't read that as proving someone close to Armstrong didn't leak at all.

said two people close to the investigation.

The two people with knowledge of the case insisted on anonymity because the investigation was continuing.

Doesn't sound like there are any distinguishing characteristics at all. Lances legal team are "close to the investigation." They have "knowledge of the case." Lots of people could fit that description, and those people could have gotten information from lots of people, including people associated with Armstrong.

I don't think that proves anything. It is just a nebulous statement made by a reporter trying to cover their source.

 

[MarkvW]

The day Carlos Sastre has more titles than Armstrong will be a happy day.

Yeh. Carlos is great. One of my favorites.

 

[Krebs cycle]

One of Armstrong's most consistent objections has been that he is being singled out, so why would he leak this to the press? Wouldn't that pretty much ruin that particular line of defense? If it is not true, then wouldn't it really **** those guys off and perhaps convince them (or strengthen their resolve) to testify against him?

I think its fair enough that during the tour GH, LL, DZ and CVV want to avoid the case and focus on the race, but damn, I hope it is actually true so the public gets sick of hearing LA play the victim card and starts to turn against him. I also hope it is true because at least in the case of Hincape, then LA cannot play the "proven cheat/unworthy witness" card.

 

[mewmewmew13]

The day Carlos Sastre has more titles than Armstrong will be a happy day.

That is a good one....

 

[ChrisE]

Ah yes. The Carlos Sastre that rode for ONCE and CSC. It's funny LA has such power over the clinic to single handedly bust the clinic hypocrisy dial.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Ah yes. The Carlos Sastre that rode for ONCE and CSC. It's funny LA has such power over the clinic to single handedly bust the clinic hypocrisy dial.

Oh, we are all hypocrites here except you?

Carlos is a higher level human being than Armstrong.

 

[thehog]

Yeh. Carlos is great. One of my favorites.

A true gentleman. Will to down as one of the greats from the peloton. Much respect for him. I follow his blog. Always wise words from Carlos.

 

[ChrisE]

Oh, we are all hypocrites here except you?

Carlos is a higher level human being than Armstrong.

Yes, we are finally getting somewhere. It doesn't matter who dopes, it is whether or not we like him or not based upon what is in the public domain. We finally have agreement, mewmew.

It is not about the dope, but how people are percieved. Perhaps when testing does catch up they can equip the pis cup with a "higher level human being" filter so not to snag those that can be used to whack LA.

What am I a hypocrite about? Whatever it is, you cheering him with that past is a pretty far line in the sand for me to pass. I look forward to your reply, as always.

 

[BroDeal]

If Big George is out of cycling next year, what on Earth will compel him to attend the arbitration hearing? I can't think of anything except his personal sense of honor, whatever that is.

If he does not show up then he will be sanctioned without a deal by the USADA.. From 60 minutes we know that Hincapie confessed to receiving/giving drugs from/to Armstrong, trafficking. RR has intimated that Hincapie pressured people not to talk, so maybe that opens up the SOL. If he does not cooperate then he will be hit with a very long ban. Perhpas most of his results get stripped.

Is he willing to fall on his sword so Armstrong gets away with it? Maybe, but it is unlikely to work. The Garmin guys cannot clam up without losing their jobs if we can believe JV. JV destroys his own credibility if he backs out. So no matter what Hincapie does, Armstrong is likely to be sanctioned to a degree. Hincapie not talking won't save Armstrong. What Hincapie is left with by not talking is upholding some sort of honor amongst thieves. It is possible he wants to maintain the image of a stand up guy, but does he want emails made public where he bullies other riders to keep silent? Does he want to be the bad guy? As it is now, he can spin the situation as being caught up in a bad situation that he got out of when High Road offered the opportunity.

 

[thehog]

Oh, we are all hypocrites here except you?

Carlos is a higher level human being than Armstrong.

I lied. I will only rest when CVV has more 5th places than Armstromg has Tour wins.

Won't be long now

 

[MarkvW]

Yes, we are finally getting somewhere. It doesn't matter who dopes, it is whether or not we like him or not based upon what is in the public domain. We finally have agreement, mewmew.

It is not about the dope, but how people are percieved. Perhaps when testing does catch up they can equip the pis cup with a "higher level human being" filter so not to snag those that can be used to whack LA.

What am I a hypocrite about? Whatever it is, you cheering him with that past is a pretty far line in the sand for me to pass. I look forward to your reply, as always.

ChrisE is just using the term hypocrite in his own uniquely defined way.

 

[ChrisE]

ChrisE is just using the term hypocrite in his own uniquely defined way.

Care to expand, or talk in code? Does code not work well in two dimensions?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Ah yes. The Carlos Sastre that rode for ONCE and CSC. It's funny LA has such power over the clinic to single handedly bust the clinic hypocrisy dial.

Nope - it shows your hypocrisy, i'm afraid.
So Sastre is guilty because he rode with dirty teams? Thats fine if you use that measure - but whats "funny" is you refer to LA.

As I said earlier, leave LAs name out of this and look at it as a large fraudulent conspiracy, that lasted over a decade and names 3 Doctors a manager, a coach and the main benefactor would you object to how its handled so far?

 

[D-Queued]

I think his (LL's) first offense was before the "two strikes = permanent ban" policy, so the first would not count.

I think there is at least one precedent for this, but cannot remember the sport/example.

Anyone else know?

Dave.

 

[shojii]

...didn't hound the Andreus, Lemond, Simeoni, Kimmage. Referred to universally by the well deserved epithet "Mr Clean". That's a starter for Carlos being a higher level of human being.

 

[ChrisE]

Nope - it shows your hypocrisy, i'm afraid.
So Sastre is guilty because he rode with dirty teams? Thats fine if you use that measure - but whats "funny" is you refer to LA.

As I said earlier, leave LAs name out of this and look at it as a large fraudulent conspiracy, that lasted over a decade and names 3 Doctors a manager, a coach and the main benefactor would you object to how its handled so far?

OK. I will play.

It is common clinic logic to use degrees of separation. "So and so rode for X" is used constantlly in here to label people dopers. You know this...don't act stupid. I am sure the hog and mewmew have piled on with this before, and then they trumpet this guy who rode for Saiz and Riis because they think he is a good guy. Give me a break, but it does expose how ****ed up the cult is.

Again, per your implication please find where I ever wrote LA was clean or rode for clean teams, or that what supposed witnesses claim is not true, or......you get my point. Why you keep beating the "3 docs, etc" drum is beyond me. Do I need to write something here that gets you out of this do-loop?

This place is funny. I get assigned BS just because I question the mob pretzel logic and hypocrisy.

 

[MarkvW]

Care to expand, or talk in code? Does code not work well in two dimensions?

Why? All I did was say Sastre was one of my favorites and you call me a hypocrite!

Think I'll see if the ignore feature still works.

 

[ChrisE]

Why? All I did was say Sastre was one of my favorites and you call me a hypocrite!

Think I'll see if the ignore feature still works.

You should. You respond to me when I am not even talking to you and jam me with my definition of "hypocrisy", and I call you out on your perpetual fence sitting.

Yes, please put me on ignore. Logic does not become you.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Chris, your meter is running overtime tonight.

I'm not too concerned what you think about....

I do like Sastre. Seems a good chap, strong character.

Armstrong has made his own messes wherever he has gone. Too bad for him.

 

[thehog]

You should. You respond to me when I am not even talking to you and jam me with my definition of "hypocrisy", and I call you out on your perpetual fence sitting.

Yes, please put me on ignore. Logic does not become you.

Sastre a nice chap. Well respected by many. Funny guy by all accounts.

Can't understand why you don't like a guy like Carlos. Can't understand why he has hit a raw nerve. Top rider, top guy.

 

[ChrisE]

Chris, your meter is running overtime tonight.

I'm not too concerned what you think about....

I do like Sastre. Seems a good chap, strong character.

Armstrong has made his own messes wherever he has gone. Too bad for him.

I really have no problem with what you think about Sastre. He seems like a good guy. I really don't know what he is about and I don't really care. It is the unequal application of skepticism in here is all I am pointing out. You know zero about Sastre, or what he is capable of. That is all.

Yes, I need to sign off. I can't watch porn anymore because my wife is home, and twitter is boring. I'm done with Fark, etc. on the other tab. Good night, mewmew. Think about me as always.

 

[aphronesis]

Nope - it shows your hypocrisy, i'm afraid.
So Sastre is guilty because he rode with dirty teams? Thats fine if you use that measure - but whats "funny" is you refer to LA.

As I said earlier, leave LAs name out of this and look at it as a large fraudulent conspiracy, that lasted over a decade and names 3 Doctors a manager, a coach and the main benefactor would you object to how its handled so far?

At a guess, I'd say you linked the code with the reduction to quarter ban about 30 pages back.

What does fraudulent have to do with this particular set of charges? More to the point, you want to discuss Armstrong and discuss the conspiracy, fine. What net result--for the sport of course-- do you see coming out of this by naming it as a conspiracy that couldn't be achieved by charging the individuals separately? The timeline? The fact that it's easier to make it stick this way?

For those not clear on what hypocrisy means, do you all suppose Levi will get to keep all his wins of the past few years?

 

[MarkvW]

At a guess, I'd say you linked the code with the reduction to quarter ban about 30 pages back.

What does fraudulent have to do with this particular set of charges? More to the point, you wan to discuss Armstrong and discuss the conspiracy, fine. What net result--for the sport of course-- do you see coming out of this by naming it as a conspiracy that couldn't be achieved by charging the individuals separately? The timeline? The fact that it's easier to make it stick this way?

For those not clear on what hypocrisy means, do you all suppose Levi will get to keep all his wins of the past few years?

More chance of openness and fullest disclosure. Best hope for beating the SOL.

Maybe prematurely bald Levi has already suffered enough for his steroid abuse.