USADA - Armstrong

[Ferminal]

So do we still all agree that White had nothing sinister in mind when he sent a cyclist to a doctor he worked with at USPS?

 

[Runitout]

Armstrong's suspension, while a welcome development, is the least interesting thing about this whole affair.




And in a completely unrelated matter, who is Wiggo's doctor/trainer, btw...? Anyone know?

 

[Oldbiker]

Can't compete in Triathlon?

How can USADA stop Armstrong from competing in Tri's when they have only just charged him? When Contador was charged with using clenbuterol he still competed thru 2011.
i don't get it, I thought you got a trial and appeal before bans were handed down.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

How can USADA stop Armstrong from competing in Tri's when they have only just charged him? When Contador was charged with using clenbuterol he still competed thru 2011.
i don't get it, I thought you got a trial and appeal before bans were handed down.

Contador was suspended when he was notified of his failed test in August 2010 - he then had his hearing with RFEC in Spain and was acquitted in February 2011, so he was allowed race. There is no suspension when an appeal is made to CAS.

 

[hrotha]

How can USADA stop Armstrong from competing in Tri's when they have only just charged him? When Contador was charged with using clenbuterol he still competed thru 2011.
i don't get it, I thought you got a trial and appeal before bans were handed down.

No, Contador was provisionally suspended for 2010 and early 2011, then he was acquitted so he could race. Armstrong is provisionally suspended because he's involved in an official investigation.

Anyway, I'm trying to access Bikechatter to no avail, but I expect it'll be full of pros giving Armstrong the Riccò treatment, right? Right?

 

[henryg]

The answer is don't cheat, and if your boss cheats,(assuming Lances' former team mates, you either quit, or turn the lying scumbag in and sue him.(Lance.) Now it comes to the point where, what is it 10 of Lances' doping cronies finger Lance themselves? Sorry, those lying, (although not under oath,) are rats, fleeing a sinking ship after they have fed on the same detritus Armstrong did.(Assuming Armstrong did dope.) The holier than though BS of the co cheaters,(not naming names here,) is disgusting and filthy. The co-cheaters are just as dirty, and confessing to save their filthy selves does not make them saints. Not naming names here, they(the co-conspirators, will sleep in their own filthy bed forever.

So you think they should have lied under oath and went to jail for perjury for Lance? You think he would fall on his sword for any of them? They DID NOT testify voluntarily. They were forced to testify by the Feds. I don't see any holier then thou attitude. None of them has spoken to the press and they refuse to answer questions about it. It's going to screw their careers as well.

 

[fatsprintking]

Phil Anderson interviewed on mainstream Austrailian radio this morning on the issue. He said in summary:

Lance has been a successful athlete for a long time and has never tested positive.

Lance was investigated by the Feds and the case was dropped when they could find no evidence to proceed.

Phil was on a team with lance early in his career and he never took drugs as far as Phil knows.

Good luck with it all Phil as you watch your reputation in Australia go down the plug hole with this jerk. Am expecting Pat Jonker to be on TV tonight with much the same guff.

The interesting thing is how much media the issue has recieved in Australia. The sad thing is that they will wheel out Anderson and Jonker for the expert opinions.

 

[AussieGoddess]

How can USADA stop Armstrong from competing in Tri's when they have only just charged him? When Contador was charged with using clenbuterol he still competed thru 2011.
i don't get it, I thought you got a trial and appeal before bans were handed down.

No - When AC was charged he was immediately suspended from competition.

He was cleared by RFEC and was thus allowed to compete again. UCI and WADA appealed RFEC's decision .... and thus he was eventually suspended.

That is the way it works. Its interesting as they do not seem to get a presumption of innocence ...

 

[MarkvW]

The answer is don't cheat, and if your boss cheats,(assuming Lances' former team mates, you either quit, or turn the lying scumbag in and sue him.(Lance.) Now it comes to the point where, what is it 10 of Lances' doping cronies finger Lance themselves? Sorry, those lying, (although not under oath,) are rats, fleeing a sinking ship after they have fed on the same detritus Armstrong did.(Assuming Armstrong did dope.) The holier than though BS of the co cheaters,(not naming names here,) is disgusting and filthy. The co-cheaters are just as dirty, and confessing to save their filthy selves does not make them saints. Not naming names here, they(the co-conspirators, will sleep in their own filthy bed forever.

Lance got offered the same deal as the teammates. He could be in the same filthy bed as his fellow cheaters. Lance, though, chose to maintain the lie!

 

[DirtyWorks]

Usac?

I noticed Steve Johnson was CC'd. I wonder what Weisel did when Johnson made that call. Remains to be seen what Weisel and the UCI will do about it now.

As good as this is in the court of public opinion, LOTS of awful stuff to acknowledge and undo. The Andreu's among many still haven't come out on the right side of this.

Early days yet. Lots of money and power still available to alter the outcome.

 

[stephens]

I see you say an "official" test.... - why would someone fail an official test when they are paying the official tester?

I must have missed that allegation in the USADA announcement...

I've always said that the cover up of a positive test would be the biggest crime of all, and the one worth pursuing. It is also the thing that would really turn the American public against Lance. After all, Americans don't believe in following rules so much as they agree to suffer the consequences should they be caught violating those rules. (example: no one expects people to follow traffic laws, they just expect people to pay their fines when they get ticketed.) Buying one's way out of trouble is frowned upon...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

The USADA would not wade into waters this deep without the proper gear. My belief is that they have the testimony of Andreu, Hincapie, Hamilton, Leipheimer, Danielson, Landis, Vaughters, among others.

Lance now has to call all these guys who worked for him day in and day out liars.

My guess is that the first 3 calls Lance makes are to Weisel, Och, and Steve Johnson. These 3 guys may stand to lose a lot if Lance goes down and the truth comes out.

 

[rata de sentina]

Phil Anderson interviewed on mainstream Austrailian radio this morning on the issue. He said in summary:

I'm surprised that Anderson is being such a ***** because I have seen him insinuate that LA doped before although it went completely over the head of that clown Tomalaris at the time. Just goes to show that people remain wary.

 

[karlboss]

Can we not just put an asterix next to every race from 1990 whatever to 2000 whatever. Say everyone doped, the winners won on a fair playing field (even though it wasn't), sponsors still got their advertising, athletes, teams, races all got paid...what's the problem? Full amnesty offered for directors, doctors, athletes, up to present day offences. Any current riders, managers, doctors, need to provide info of what they are doing now or if they are caught by other means ban them from the sport for life.

 

[SilentAssassin]

Just seems more like trial by media again. It'll get dropped just a question of when again.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Just seems more like trial by media again. It'll get dropped just a question of when again.

Funny how all these posters whose first post was in July 2010 keep coming back.

 

[Ferminal]

Phil Anderson interviewed on mainstream Austrailian radio this morning on the issue. He said in summary:

Lance has been a successful athlete for a long time and has never tested positive.

Lance was investigated by the Feds and the case was dropped when they could find no evidence to proceed.

Phil was on a team with lance early in his career and he never took drugs as far as Phil knows.

Good luck with it all Phil as you watch your reputation in Australia go down the plug hole with this jerk. Am expecting Pat Jonker to be on TV tonight with much the same guff.

The interesting thing is how much media the issue has recieved in Australia. The sad thing is that they will wheel out Anderson and Jonker for the expert opinions.

Yeh I'm looking forward to Jonker.

Sunderland has gone through the usual talking points on twitter.

I hope Turtur says something too.

 

[Neworld]

[/QUOTE]

That guy in Yellow and Black was me (kidding). I tried so hard to help Lance put both needles in his nut, but he just wouldn't let me. He said, "find me at the HTFinish dude!"

Every Dog has his day, Lance's is approaching, thankfully.

 

[BotanyBay]

The guy in that costume has permission to marry my daughter when the day comes. It was such a brilliant statement. Il Diavolo with a LiveStrong aroma. Perfect!

 

[ManInFull]

Just seems more like trial by media again. It'll get dropped just a question of when again.

It's hardly trial by media. Read the USADA letter that was given to JB, LA, and others. Seems credible. USADA has a lot of cyclists' testimonies under oath. It's their word against Lance's. They all can't be telling lies.

 

[Neworld]

If Armstrong were to lose Tour de France titles, it would,

A) Sully the sport to the casual fans of cycling.
B) An investigation should be done on the subsequent riders who finished behind Armstrong, in the 1999-2005 victories.
B) is the only fair course of action by USADA, as it is important that no dopers should take the Tour titles which are bound to be stripped by Armstrong.
Any other course than a full investigation of Armstrongs' competitors would be a travesty of justice.
Also any results of any riders found to be doping during the Armstrong years should be stripped as well as lifetime bans and return of prizes with interest.
USADA should follow that course. This includes any informants who rode alongside Armstrong.
The cheaters should be destroyed, along with Armstrong if he is found guilty.

That sure sounds like a 'spoil sport' concept and NOT what has traditionally happened to date. Lance and all his doping is a prime example.

If we were to be 'that' egalitarian...wow, I cannot even think of where to stop.

What about the results of this investigation on SCA, Mike Anderson...

I realize they are not Antidoping agency cases, but could the results of this investigation reopen other cases? Yikes.

 

[Cobblestones]

Cycling's governing body, the UCI, issued a press release on Wednesday evening stating the body had only just been informed by USADA of this decision and that it was "the first time USADA has communicated to UCI on this subject."

"The UCI is not aware of the information that is available to USADA on the persons concerned and has not been involved in the proceedings opened by USADA," the press release said. "The UCI will follow the case to the extent it will be informed and has noted that the persons concerned have been invited to send submittals on the allegations that are made against them. The UCI will not comment further at this stage."

That sounds like they want to telegraph LA that, "yes, we remember the bribe, and really, it wasn't us who leaked it, but now, since it's out there, we have to follow the rules. You really should have paid off USADA, too."

Anyway, I never thought I would see the day. Finally, we see some action following Floyd's revelations. It's about time.

I remember the day when Floyd came out. The forum was a fun place then. Maybe it's time for me to come back from my CN forum retirement. It seems fitting somehow.

 

[SilentAssassin]

It's hardly trial by media. Read the USADA letter that was given to JB, LA, and others. Seems credible. USADA has a lot of cyclists' testimonies under oath. It's their word against Lance's. They call can't be telling lies.

Thats what everyone said about the last case that the federal prosecutor's dropped. Seems credible...lots of witnesses...more hincapie speculation even though hincapie denied he ever testified.

It's the same thing, different agency. Witnesses are not enough because that would set a precedent that witness testimony is enough to strip someone from his title. So then any cyclist doper who has an ill will towards another cyclist can point the finger and get him banned.

 

[thehog]

That sounds like they want to telegraph LA that, "yes, we remember the bribe, and really, it wasn't us who leaked it, but now, since it's out there, we have to follow the rules. You really should have paid off USADA, too."

Anyway, I never thought I would see the day. Finally, we see some action following Floyd's revelations. It's about time.

I remember the day when Floyd came out. The forum was a fun place then. Maybe it's time for me to come back from my CN forum retirement. It seems fitting somehow.

Welcome home my friend. We've missed you. Your safe here.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Thats what everyone said about the last case that the federal prosecutor's dropped. Seems credible...lots of witnesses...more hincapie speculation even though hincapie denied he ever testified.

It's the same thing, different agency. Witnesses are not enough because that would set a precedent that witness testimony is enough to strip someone from his title. So then any cyclist doper who has an ill will towards another cyclist can point the finger and get him banned.

My understanding of the feds' investigation is that it was geared toward fraud via doping with federal funds. Federal funds weren't involved, so the investigation was dropped.

USADA doesn't care what funds are involved.

I think that's the differece. I think.