USADA - Armstrong

[Jeremiah]

Death penalty

The USADA have been trying to get Armstrong for many years. The tone and style of the letter will be rather otherworldly to outsiders. It presents a cyclist who doped during a period when there was loads of doping in cycling, including all the riders that were let off for talking, seem like a gangster crime mafia boss. By the end of reading it you can't read the letter without wondering if he will get the death penalty. They might have played into his hands a bit by presenting it in that way, and seeming to want to wipe him out of the history books altogether in a quite unprecidented way.

So I'm saying it's about Armstrong himself, not about helping clean teams and riders, or "facing the truth" or any of that hippyish mumbojumbo. The guy just has this incredibly negative effect on his enemies. I've never seen anything like it before.

petition...

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitio...on-usada-lance-armstrong/FX0pVTLL#thank-you=p

You and MarkW can sign it.

I'm hoping Armstrong gets the death penalty myself!

 

[Jeremiah]

I think we'll see a lot more like this. The lawyers for the newspapers are going to be less and less afraid of an Armstrong defamation lawsuit.

They've been ragging him for years. Man, you're really going out on a limb here.

 

[MacRoadie]

petition...

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitio...on-usada-lance-armstrong/FX0pVTLL#thank-you=p

You and MarkW can sign it.

That will get the count up to 87...

 

[Big Doopie]

You may be right, and we need to "clear the air". But, for the sake of argument, wouldn't it be appropriate to vacate all results from that period of time - say 1988-2008 ought to do it, right? Wouldn't that ultimately be "fair".

lol! the fraud apologists (or "frapologists") still just can't handle the truth that lemond was a true sporting hero and armstrong a fraud.

 

[Granville57]

Wow. I haven't logged in here in months. I must say, the back and forth here is pretty f'ing disappointing. Shouldn't be too surprised, I suppose, based on the downward spiral that this forum has been over the past year or so.

Congratulations to the gate keepers, and especially to those who just can't resist responding to every, single, daily, *** display of idiocy.

Anyway, I'll just leave you with a little observation of my own. You're welcome.

(Actually, Thank You, RR)

it's half time.

I can understand why you would want to head home early, the 2nd half will be a blow out.

The people who investigate him felt there was enough to charge him, they even drew up the charges.

The UCI and USAC ignoring doping was nothing more then pregame tailgating. Enjoy the 1/2 time show. Lots of lance running in a Speedo and "Done a lot of good"

3rd quarter will be fun. USADA case, Tyler's book......but the 4th quarter is where the real excitement will happen.

Stay tuned, don't touch that dial!

It is obvious to most that it is not over. Even if they choose to ignore the multiple reports that the case was dropped over the objections of multiple agencies, prosecutors, and investigators it is hard to ignore that WADA/USADA are pushing forward. The Federal civil fraud case is still active. Despite the talking points nothing came of the leak investigation, that was all smoke and mirrors...... It is hardly over

.........usada?

You are welcome to pretend that people don't care but once this is all over the lasting memory of the USPS team will be doping. Bags of blood. Exactly what the sponsors where trying to avoid when they put the doping clauses in the contract.

Wonderboy's list of enemies is long, very long. Vaughters is certainly in the top 3 if not the #1 sport.

In the last 18 months JV's team has won Paris Roubaix, was all over the Tour, and now has won the Giro.

Meanwhile Wonderboy's team has folded, he is facing multiple legal challenges and USADA sanctions that will be coming any day. His partner in crime Johan has taken the top team in the world into chaos.

Poor guy. all that hate

I am not sure why everyone thinks Lance will be in Kona. He will not, unless Messick ignores USADA

If it helps you deal with your grief then by all means pretend that nothing is going to happen, everything is going to be fine. USADA will just go away. Tyler's book will not come out. The Feds will not pursue civil, and other, charges.

Enjoy it while you can....hey look, it's a Unicorn!

Everything I wrote was correct. It is only half-time. Stay tuned

Enjoy the half time festivities. There is still a lot of game to play.

It really burns you when somebody questions your boy.....better get used to it. It only gets worse from here.

LOL, USADA is about pwn Wonderboy! LOL ROTFL!

Just wait. The petty vindictiveness of Wonderboy and his paid friends is about to go to the next level.

 

[DirtyWorks]

And why didn't the feds press their case?

You know there's already a thread for that question. Please don't pollute this one with your nonsense.

Yes, I do think that the argument that the Federal Government should have better things to do is legitimate.

Well great. Forget the fact the Republic is supposed to be based on the principal of the Rule of Law. Let's skip over that for a minute and bring it home to kukiniloa.

Kukinlioa, your kid has The Gift. She can become the greatest cyclists/track and field/tennis player ever. Except, **you** need to start doping her because natural gifts will only take her so far. What's first? EPO? HGH? Are you the Father going to do the first injection? Dear old Mom maybe? When she's 16 can she inject her own dope? Step up Dad. You are going to break the law sourcing and injecting your kid with EPO. But, meh whatever. Just like Wonderboy believes, Laws are for suckers.

We're skipping over Wonderboy so little Kukinlioa will have to dope to reach International ranking and your attitude is to blame. Ask Joe Papp how he's doing physically. Greg Strock too. That's what you are committing kids to with your short-sighted B.S.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Wow. I haven't logged in here in months. I must say, the back and forth here is pretty f'ing disappointing.

So it would be appropriate for the forum to represent only one side of a question? And not allow a full discussion and various viewpoints?

No.

Susan

 

[Paco_P]

So LA is going to be the fall guy for them not doing their job? Of course, they are run on tax payer dollars so I shouldn't be surprised.

One of the most legitimate reasons for even having government is to police frauds and cheats - this is beneficial for us all - it's among the most basic uses of "tax payer dollars". Another very legitimate activity of government is the regulation of products and procedures whose safety cannot be easily assessed by an ordinary person (e.g. pharmaceuticals and medical interventions). A world in which no tax payer dollars are spent on such activities would be much less safe.

For those not from the US, this "tax payer dollar" business is ideological ranting that comes from a certain political angle (although the same ranting can be found in Europe). In this mindset, government is bad, and that Armstrong (who belongs to this political world, and is one of its heros) is unjustly persecuted by the government is further evidence of how bad government is. The premises are questionable (to put it gently), and in this case fly in the face of common sense and evidence. For me it is yet another illustration of how ideology can blind folks to the obvious.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't USADA responsible for reviewing the tests?

You are wrong. Please give up now because you are off to a really bad start and it's not going to get any easier or better.

 

[just some guy]

and what about all the good little girls and boys with cancer?

seriously WTF leave the Cancer jokes or any thing resembling a joke well alone.

It is a ****ed disease and is not a laughing matter - Armstrong used the cancer issue to make his name do not think that Armstrong and Cancer are the same thing .

 

[ExRower]

http://www.slowtwitch.com/News/Ban_What_Ban__2850.html

Dam Empfield is a fool.

 

[Granville57]

So it would be appropriate for the forum to represent only one side of a question? And not allow a full discussion and various viewpoints?

I was referring to the quality of those "viewpoints."

Nice try though.


"full discussion..."

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Just looking through Floyd's tweets and found this prescient one from last September:

So no indictments until May 2012? Time flies.

These aren't indictments and it's June not May, but pretty close.

 

[VeloFidelis]

Replay his speach at the end of his 7th win - If the evidence shows he was full of **** then he deserves everything that is coming and more.

Ohhh it's coming... Along with high fives and fist bumps and hoopla about the truth finally having it's day. But the truth can be a funny thing once that genie is out of the bottle. And I am not saying in any way that it shouldn't be... but it brings with it some other truths that we don't really want to admit to.

Like... We all support doping, and we always have. We tune in, watch, and follow a sport that is riddled with doping, and always has been... and we've always known it. To dispute this basic premise is to say that you really don't know Jack Sh!t about the sport, and that you believe in Santa Claus.

If you have been a "Fan" for say twenty years, consider that you have never seen a Pro Tour, Classic, or GT event that was not a direct outcome of organized doping. You have been cheering it on for decades... and you know it. Your cycling heros, the icons of the sports, are all as dirty as an old dish rag. It may have been a little more ridiculously blatant back in the 90's as they were getting the dose dialed in, but no one wanted to see it, and they couldn't really prove it, so we all just pretended, and cheered any way. Now they have it all down to a science, and they just shrug as interested parties try to prove it... well sort of try.

But we don't really want a clean sport. There are many here who say that they do. But clean sport is boring. Should an athlete actually succumb to the physical stresses of the sport... you know, act like a real human and falter from the effort, there will be a new thread here in the Clinic from those same people about why that rider sucks now. We all want to see Pantani or Armstrong, or Rasmussen or Contador rip the legs off their rivals with a super human attack on the final climb. Anything less is just p!ss poor racing, and more fodder for the Forum.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's been like Professional Wrestling for some time now, and we are all still sitting here ring side waiting for the next event. But hey... don't feel bad. Try naming a sport at the professional level that is clean, Yeah... I can't do it either. The interesting thing is that the sports where the doping is the worst, and the fans care the least, are financially doing the very best. Like the NFL. Gee... if we could only be honest, and come to grips with the fact that we don't give a sh!t either, maybe cycling would be less vilified and we could all get back to cheering those super human efforts brought to us through better science, that we have come to know and love.

Many will cheer the recent developments with Lance and USADA. He is after all the Hulk Hogan of our sport. The guy we love to hate, because Lord knows, he's an a$$hole, and karmic payback is a b!tch. But as he burns justifiably on the funeral pyre of public opinion, I will be listening for that sucking sound. You will probably hear it too... it will be the sound of money leaving the sport. Sponsorship money, television money, endorsement money, prize money, rider salaries, all making the high pitched squeaking sound of air leaking out of a balloon.

Lance will undoubtedly go down. It will be great theater like Tiger Woods, and it is absolutely what should happen. But I can't help but heave a big sigh, because the media impact of invalidating seven TDF wins will send cycling back down a rabbit hole of obscurity from which it may never fully recover... all it seems, because we can't come to grips with the facts that like NFL fans, we'd all probably be better off not giving a sh!t about something that we always knew was there... and which actually makes us want to tune in to watch.

 

[Eusebio Kino]

Wow. I haven't logged in here in months. I must say, the back and forth here is pretty f'ing disappointing. Shouldn't be too surprised, I suppose, based on the downward spiral that this forum has been over the past year or so.

Congratulations to the gate keepers, and especially to those who just can't resist responding to every, single, daily, *** display of idiocy.

Anyway, I'll just leave you with a little observation of my own. You're welcome.

(Actually, Thank You, RR)

The last post has nothing to do with fairness in sports, nor even Lance. It is a personal vendetta against an icon, a brand.
To joke about Armstrong, or to hate him only gives him more power. I guess you are making fun of Armstrong? Why? I thought the USADA investigation is about cleaning up cycling? Or maybe your post is is only about miracles, unicorns and rainbows?

 

[BroDeal]

I was referring to the quality of those "viewpoints."

Nice try though.


"full discussion..."

Yup. BPC, who is now Technical Descent, and Polish destroyed this forum. It is a shadow what it used to be.

 

[Eusebio Kino]

Ohhh it's coming... Along with high fives and fist bumps and hoopla about the truth finally having it's day. But the truth can be a funny thing once that genie is out of the bottle. And I am not saying in any way that it shouldn't be... but it brings with it some other truths that we don't really want to admit to.

Like... We all support doping, and we always have. We tune in, watch, and follow a sport that is riddled with doping, and always has been... and we've always known it. To dispute this basic premise is to say that you really don't know Jack Sh!t about the sport, and that you believe in Santa Claus.

If you have been a "Fan" for say twenty years, consider that you have never seen a Pro Tour, Classic, or GT event that was not a direct outcome of organized doping. You have been cheering it on for decades... and you know it. Your cycling heros, the icons of the sports, are all as dirty as an old dish rag. It may have been a little more ridiculously blatant back in the 90's as they were getting the dose dialed in, but no one wanted to see it, and they couldn't really prove it, so we all just pretended, and cheered any way. Now they have it all down to a science, and they just shrug as interested parties try to prove it... well sort of try.

But we don't really want a clean sport. There are many here who say that they do. But clean sport is boring. Should an athlete actually succumb to the physical stresses of the sport... you know, act like a real human and falter from the effort, there will be a new thread here in the Clinic from those same people about why that rider sucks now. We all want to see Pantani or Armstrong, or Rasmussen or Contador rip the legs off their rivals with a super human attack on the final climb. Anything less is just p!ss poor racing, and more fodder for the Forum.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's been like Professional Wrestling for some time now, and we are all still sitting here ring side waiting for the next event. But hey... don't feel bad. Try naming a sport at the professional level that is clean, Yeah... I can't do it either. The interesting thing is that the sports where the doping is the worst, and the fans care the least, are financially doing the very best. Like the NFL. Gee... if we could only be honest, and come to grips with the fact that we don't give a sh!t either, maybe cycling would be less vilified and we could all get back to cheering those super human efforts brought to us through better science, that we have come to know and love.

Many will cheer the recent developments with Lance and USADA. He is after all the Hulk Hogan of our sport. The guy we love to hate, because Lord knows, he's an a$$hole, and karmic payback is a b!tch. But as he burns justifiably on the funeral pyre of public opinion, I will be listening for that sucking sound. You will probably hear it too... it will be the sound of money leaving the sport. Sponsorship money, television money, endorsement money, prize money, rider salaries, all making the high pitched squeaking sound of air leaking out of a balloon.

Lance will undoubtedly go down. It will be great theater like Tiger Woods, and it is absolutely what should happen. But I can't help but heave a big sigh, because the media impact of invalidating seven TDF wins will send cycling back down a rabbit hole of obscurity from which it may never fully recover... all it seems, because we can't come to grips with the facts that like NFL fans, we'd all probably be better off not giving a sh!t about something that we always knew was there... and which actually makes us want to tune in to watch.

Now. Watch the sponsors run and the sport wither up and die. Now, watch.

 

[webvan]

But we don't really want a clean sport. There are many here who say that they do. But clean sport is boring. Should an athlete actually succumb to the physical stresses of the sport... you know, act like a real human and falter from the effort, there will be a new thread here in the Clinic from those same people about why that rider sucks now. We all want to see Pantani or Armstrong, or Rasmussen or Contador rip the legs off their rivals with a super human attack on the final climb. Anything less is just p!ss poor racing, and more fodder for the Forum.

Not true at all, before EPO you already had killer attacks by guys with talent, if anything EPO allowed mediocre riders (like Riis) to shine and win a TDF, read Fignon's book to see how puzzled he was in 1992 or 1993 when he saw talentless hacks dropping guys with talent like stones. If Armstrong hadn't gone overboard cheating all the Tours he won would have been better for the viewers, except maybe the first one where it was such a shock to see him there that it was exciting.

 

[hughmoore]

ROB ARNOLD: Until science can actually prove it then we have to assume that he is innocent.

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2012/s3524904.htm

Ok Rob, so a USADA trial based on testimony would still not prove his guilt?

Testimony from self confessed liars like Landis is not proof of anything!




Hugh

 

[errbud]

Anyone watched skysports news this morning? Very eager to stress he has never failed a drugs test, feds recently dropped their case, he says its out of spite etc etc. Not one quote from usada its almost like they are trying to protect something ....

 

[LugHugger]

Now. Watch the sponsors run and the sport wither up and die. Now, watch.

Yes. Because that happened after Festina, Puerto et al didn't it?

 

[MartinGT]

Man this is going to be messy!

Why are people suprised the letter was delivered on a Tuesday? Dont you guys work ona Tuesday over there?

 

[dopingectomy]

All this dope speculation and talk is very bad for cycling.
I wonder when people will actually enjoy the sport instead of enjoying speculating in dope
7 years from now and the case is coming back.
A bit too late?

too late? Just a reminder: JB is manager of Radioshack TODAY, Celaya is doctor of Radioshack TODAY, del Moral is head of an institute of sports medicine and consults in pro sports TODAY, Ferrari has the Astana team and other pro cyclists as clients TODAY, LA is competing at the highest level in triathlon TODAY. To the best of my knowledge, the only one that we do not know if he is still active is Pepe Marti.

 

[mickkk]

Well I am delighted with the news. A fair dinkum as it gets considering it is America, committal hearing and then a trial after that if the hearing finds enough evidence to sustain the charges. New testing of old samples with new technology is what is bringing down those who thought they could escape.

Hard evidence in court, that is what I want so we can get to the bottom of this mess.

I am no fan of Armstrong, the sides were chosen well before his last tours. If found guilty, Cycling will not suffer, the millions of well meaning followers will. Whatever the result, it shows that Cycling wants the truth, no matter the consequences. I qualify Cycling as wanting all this because the officials and authorities have been cooperating freely to date, not under any legal reason to do so.

Cycling is the most heavily tested sport in the world, seek and ye shall find always applies. If other sports delved as deeply, they would find as many drug cheats as have been found in Cycling and more.

Bring it on.

 

[Ferminal]

Testimony from self confessed liars like Landis is not proof of anything!




Hugh

Where does the USADA charge letter state that it relies on testimony of Landis? Or is every American cyclist who rode for USPS/Disco now a liar too? Did they also lie to USADA when interviewed by them?