USADA - Armstrong

[Dr. Maserati]

It amazes me, how many people so quickly lose faith into what is a classic case of doping but far more egregious, all b/c of a one post on the internet.

And this is despite the most recent legal battle record clearly pointing to Armstrong's royal fraud finally seeing the light of day.

Amazing, truly amazing! I would not be surprised if the majority of those who are ready to flip on just one Internet board post are from America.

We know that Armstrong in his desperation dug some dirt on a usada review board member. Perhaps he found more personal dirt on some usada folks.

Yeah, it means he did not dope

I have gone back over the last couple of pages - have I missed a post? Has something of some importance happened?

 

[Microchip]

Unfortunately it will not only Wonderboy's name in the news.

the absurdity of the US legal system has me puzzled sometimes

Sounds more like an impending airing of something about someone else, rather than Lance being able to dodge this bullet.

 

[JRTinMA]

Gosh, all you ever do is insult people, Joe.

Are you really insulted by him? Its giving him to much credit.

 

[TubularBills]

"The International Olympic Committee is the supreme authority of the Olympic Movement."

http://www.olympic.org/about-ioc-institution

Upthread some were wondering why the UCI, WADA & USAC had commented on the LA v. USADA suit but the IOC hadn't...

Perhaps they will tomorrow... any organization that would give the Olympic Games to the highest bidder, wouldn't hesitate to accept a few million from LA & his posse (Nike, Oakley, Trek, etc.)

Follow the money.

IOC = jurisdiction Supremely resolved.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I have gone back over the last couple of pages - have I missed a post? Has something of some importance happened?

See microchips' post...RR quote from earlier started the buzz I think.

 

[WinterRider]

Unfortunately it will not only Wonderboy's name in the news.

the absurdity of the US legal system has me puzzled sometimes

I have gone back over the last couple of pages - have I missed a post? Has something of some importance happened?

Some people seem to be reading far too much into Race Radio's post. I think this is what Python was referring to.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Unfortunately it will not only Wonderboy's name in the news.

the absurdity of the US legal system has me puzzled sometimes

Unlike others, my fear is that you are talking about Floyd and/or others who are witnesses in the proceedings.

 

[BotanyBay]

Sad too, bc I was a huge fan of the 7 Eleven team, now that calls EVERYTHING they ever did into question.

I've seen the enemy and it is us

 

[caryopsis]

Unlike others, my fear is that you are talking about Floyd and/or others who are witnesses in the proceedings.

perhaps the 'other' fed investigation (into Floyd)? just a guess, but if so, yikes...

 

[Dr. Maserati]

See microchips' post...RR quote from earlier started the buzz I think.

Ah. Ok, thanks.
Not sure that's to do with LA.

"The International Olympic Committee is the supreme authority of the Olympic Movement."

http://www.olympic.org/about-ioc-institution

Upthread some were wondering why the UCI, WADA & USAC had commented on the LA v. USADA suit but the IOC hadn't...

Perhaps they will tomorrow... any organization that would give the Olympic Games to the highest bidder, wouldn't hesitate to accept a few million from LA & his posse (Nike, Oakley, Trek, etc.)

Follow the money.

IOC = jurisdiction Supremely resolved.

WADA is the IOCs anti-doping baby. So, the IOC as an organsation, will not get involved.

There may one or two comments from members - but the IOC itself will wash their hands of this and if Hein/Pat try and push it they will cut them loose.

 

[TubularBills]

Ah. Ok, thanks.
Not sure that's to do with LA.


WADA is the IOCs anti-doping baby. So, the IOC as an organsation, will not get involved.

There may one or two comments from members - but the IOC itself will wash their hands of this and if Hein/Pat try and push it they will cut them loose.

Thanks Doc! Just me being paranoid, it's my strong suit! No stone unturned.

 

[BotanyBay]

Sad too, bc I was a huge fan of the 7 Eleven team, now that calls EVERYTHING they ever did into question.

If you were at least a teenager (involved in racing) during the days of 7/11, or just the 80's in general, you'd remember a few things about this subject:

1) There was no mindset of PED's. There was the illegal stuff and the not legal stuff. Only the Olympics guys got tested for anything anyway, so grass-roots riders

2) The illegal stuff was either:

A) Steroids (which few commonly believed to be of much use to a cyclist) and

B) Stimulants. Lots of people took "more caffeine than allowed", but it probably didn't do them much good (other than to cause stomach cramps). Then there was SPEED. And that was for track-holes like Whitehead and his gang of track-thugs who used to beat-up juniors in the parking lot.

People (anyone) took whatever the hell some guy down the street said would make them faster. If you think this group is gullible in regards to whatever RaceRadio MAY have meant in his post today, you shoulda been around in the mid eighties. I remember going to GNC and buying Calcium Pangamate (B-15) to help "oxygenate my blood". I remember all kinds of people taking all kinds of things, all the time.

Only post-84 blood-packing scandal did the entire mindset change, and still, people generally didn't believe that cyclists were taking 'roids in the USA until Kenny Carpenter (match sprinter) bailed on his drug test in San Diego that one year when the national track team was training at the SD velodrome.

 

[BroDeal]

perhaps the 'other' fed investigation (into Floyd)? just a guess, but if so, yikes...

Landis, through his "fake" Floyd Landis account, has twitted things like, "I'm sure glad I am not the real Floyd Landis. That guy is fcuked," Something has been coming for a while.

Sort of depressing. Landis has suffered enough.

 

[TubularBills]

Landis, through his "fake" Floyd Landis account, has twitted things like, "I'm sure glad I am not the real Floyd Landis. That guy is fcuked," Something has been coming for a while.

Sort of depressing. Landis has suffered enough.

Agreed.

Perhaps related in that undoubtedly there was Strongarm assistance, perhaps via PI's providing anonymous tips. A tangled web indeed.

Sir Sociopath

(150 take note)

 

[Je ne sais quoi]

I can't remember who this is in reply to… but it's related to the due process issue and the notice period of evidence once it is in arbitration.

Judge Sparks appears to enjoy making incendiary comments and maintaining the appearance of impartiality by throwing a bone to each participant.

But notwithstanding all his speculative remarks, he clearly spells out his expectations regarding due process and evidence. On page 18 of his Order, he says: "AAA rules are sufficiently robust…", and in the footnote he writes: "The Court does not rely solely on counsel's assurances, however. The Supplementary Procedures to the USADA Protocol contain two provisions which suggest Armstrong is likely to receive adequate notice of the specific allegations and evidence against him prior to any substantive hearing. …Rule R-18, governing the exchange of information between the parties, not only requires the parties to exchange all exhibits they intend to submit at the merits hearing five days in advance, but also allows the arbitrators to order 'production of documents and other information', including lists of anticipated witnesses."

It is interesting that Sparks wrote that, because five days notice would almost sound like a rebuke of Armstrong, in the context of his claims. But that would be the minimum time period, and the arbitrators are allowed to set the schedule. USADA may not be inclined to play hardball, but they might press the point when it comes to the witness list, if harassment of the witnesses is an issue.

 

[TubularBills]

I can't remember who this is in reply to… but it's related to the due process issue and the notice period of evidence once it is in arbitration.

Judge Sparks appears to enjoy making incendiary comments and maintaining the appearance of impartiality by throwing a bone to each participant.

But notwithstanding all his speculative remarks, he clearly spells out his expectations regarding due process and evidence. On page 18 of his Order, he says: "AAA rules are sufficiently robust…", and in the footnote he writes: "The Court does not rely solely on counsel's assurances, however. The Supplementary Procedures to the USADA Protocol contain two provisions which suggest Armstrong is likely to receive adequate notice of the specific allegations and evidence against him prior to any substantive hearing. …Rule R-18, governing the exchange of information between the parties, not only requires the parties to exchange all exhibits they intend to submit at the merits hearing five days in advance, but also allows the arbitrators to order 'production of documents and other information', including lists of anticipated witnesses."

It is interesting that Sparks wrote that, because five days notice would almost sound like a rebuke of Armstrong, in the context of his claims. But that would be the minimum time period, and the arbitrators are allowed to set the schedule. USADA may not be inclined to play hardball, but they might press the point when it comes to the witness list, if harassment of the witnesses is an issue.

Excellent eye, great find and analysis!

and... harassment of the witnesses is an issue.

CD also posted this (in Legal)... for review before the pending Carnivale:

http://www.adr.org/aaa/ShowPDF?url=/cs/groups/commercial/documents/document/mdaw/mdaz/~edisp/adrstg_004136.pdf

 

[sartain]

Is it reasonable to assume(and an almost certainty) that once it comes out that Lance did infact dope, ALL of his sponsors(especially Nike) will jump ship? I can't imagine "Live Strong" will remain a viable company, they'll almost certainly have to shut their doors as well upon that news, or am I incorrect?

Opinions?

Whatever it is you are smoking, you should bottle and sell and make a lot of money on it, because IMO, even if LA was caught on tape working over a puppy dog with a blow torch, let alone injecting himself with EPO, there is no way that his loyal and long-time sponsors will bail on him . . . they are all as guilty as him in keeping this absurd fraud alive for as long as it has gone on.

 

[formerlyfastfreddyp]

Why is Armstrong in Aspen?

I hope he's just watching the race in Aspen and not talking to the participants.

 

[TubularBills]

Is it reasonable to assume(and an almost certainty) that once it comes out that Lance did infact dope, ALL of his sponsors(especially Nike) will jump ship? I can't imagine "Live Strong" will remain a viable company, they'll almost certainly have to shut their doors as well upon that news, or am I incorrect?

Opinions?

 

[Epicycle]

The LAF part of Livestrong is what's worthwhile to Nike these days. Nike staying with Lance is probably directly tied to the health of the LAF.

Speaking of Livestrong, I just noticed something interesting...for many years the top Google search results that appeared when you searched for "Livestrong" were Livestrong.com pages, not Livestrong.org. Which makes sense because .com attracts a lot more web traffic and because the people who make money off Livestrong.com, Demand Media, are adept at search engine optimization.

But if you do a search for "Livestrong" right now, you'll see that the first 40 or so results are all Livestrong.org pages. Somebody (Demand Media obviously) has been massaging the Google search process to make sure that Lance is seen first as a cancer fighter who runs a non-profit (instead of a guy who pimps the good name of Livestrong commercially).

 

[sittingbison]

...Anna can hold her own and take care of herself....btw, armstrong is a big 'celebrity, bla,bla ' but he is just a human being....don't be so starstruck....

I completely agree, she is not a victim in any way, she appears to be one tough hombre and Lance was stupid to mess with her.

As to being starstruck by Lances 'celebrity', sorry for any confusion but I was trying to imply the celebrity was in his own mind with the "famous, rich and powerful athletes in Texas " comment. Doublespeak gone wrong, I apologise

 

[Velodude]

Whatever it is you are smoking, you should bottle and sell and make a lot of money on it, because IMO, even if LA was caught on tape working over a puppy dog with a blow torch, let alone injecting himself with EPO, there is no way that his loyal and long-time sponsors will bail on him . . . they are all as guilty as him in keeping this absurd fraud alive for as long as it has gone on.

His loyal long time sponsors will not desert only if the surveys show he continues to maintain substantial support amongst consumers.

His sponsors are in business to make a profit for their shareholders not prop up a fallen idol.

 

[Page Mill Masochist]

The LAF part of Livestrong is what's worthwhile to Nike these days. Nike staying with Lance is probably directly tied to the health of the LAF.

Speaking of Livestrong, I just noticed something interesting...for many years the top Google search results that appeared when you searched for "Livestrong" were Livestrong.com pages, not Livestrong.org. Which makes sense because .com attracts a lot more web traffic and because the people who make money off Livestrong.com, Demand Media, are adept at search engine optimization.

But if you do a search for "Livestrong" right now, you'll see that the first 40 or so results are all Livestrong.org pages. Somebody (Demand Media obviously) has been massaging the Google search process to make sure that Lance is seen first as a cancer fighter who runs a non-profit (instead of a guy who pimps the good name of Livestrong commercially).

Livestrong.com plagiarizes others for content on its site. No, it doesn't literally plagiarize. It has cheap labor "rewrite" the work of others just outside the definition of copying, and then uses SEO techniques to jump ahead of people who did the work. Is anyone surprised that a company associated with Armstrong would cheat the system?

Google is awaking to this scam.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The ridiculous part is calling this a discussion. It's more like that part of a bodybuilding competition where everybody comes out and flexes at the same time.

Touché!

Job as a mod

Uh, no. How about a signed copy of "We Might As Well Cheat".

 

[TubularBills]

Livestrong.com plagiarizes others for content on its site. No, it doesn't literally plagiarize. It has cheap labor "rewrite" the work of others just outside the definition of copying, and then uses SEO techniques to jump ahead of people who did the work. Is anyone surprised that a company associated with Armstrong would cheat the system?

Google is awaking to this scam.

Excellent, and in addition...

What color is the Livestrong brand going to use when yellow becomes unavailable?

Just curious.