USADA - Armstrong

[ChewbaccaD]

And Telluride....and drunken, rambling calls to journalists.

I just wish I could have heard the drunken calls to his attorneys.

 

[thehog]

And Telluride....and drunken, rambling calls to journalists.

Pat must wake up in the morning and have 53 missed calls and 14 texts messages.

“Why? Pat Why? Can’t we talk about this? I know you need time, but can’t we talk. I miss you”

“Pat miss u so much. Lets talk”

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Pat must wake up in the morning and have 53 missed calls and 14 texts messages.

“Why? Pat Why? Can’t we talk about this? I know you need time, but can’t we talk. I miss you”

“Pat miss u so much. Lets talk”

I imagine it was much more a drunken slurfest of profanity and threats by each to do in the other if the other didn't ___________. I truly believe the only reason fat Pat spoke up was a threat by Armstrong to reveal the information needed to prove their complicity. I don't see two drunk dudes with individual a$$se to protect having a friendly discussion.

 

[Microchip]

It's why I can't wait until he is irrelevant.
That is a low and small thing to say.

...and why you can have such great fodder for toons.

Yes!!! The mention of "Telluride" a few posts ago has me intrigued and has the Wikipedia page open.

 

[WinterRider]

A curious question I'd like to know the answer to as well. Rarely does someone lurk a year before posting. And it seems extraordinary that one would lurk so much, that they would remember specific discussions they supposedly took no part in.


Didn't Floyd start to go down that same path before imploding? Though in Floyd's case, he had a conscience at his core eating away at him to be a good person.

What's at Lance's core?

I lurked for years before joining. As a newcomer to cycling the idea of posting here seemed rather intimidating, but there is lots to read and learn here.

I remember lots of things read over the previous years, so it is not surprising to me that others have similar stories.

 

[TubularBills]

RR says it will be "craptastic" in the coming days...

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

My contribution to the lurking discussion: I read a number of forums (cycling and non-cycling) where I am not registered, and remember a lot of things about them. It is also enough to think, oh there was something earlier about XYZ and then search it.

Let's drop the lurking discussion now please.

Susan

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

No, I'm just trying to put myself into the shoes of someone who would have to defend this joker and trying to figure out what their next move might be. And given the options and the rules governing the arbitration procedures, I will stand by my conclusion that if Armstrong decides to participate in the arbitration proceedings, there will be a lot of legal manuevering yet to be done.

I would be very interested in seeing a few posts in which you put yourself in the shoes of the USADA team instead, given that currently the overwhelming majority of your submissions play the role of devil's advocate in support of the LA team. Your balanced input playing both sides would be appreciated, since according to your posts you have significant practical experience in similar matters.

 

[Race Radio]

RR says it will be "craptastic" in the coming days...

Unfortunately it will not only Wonderboy's name in the news.

the absurdity of the US legal system has me puzzled sometimes

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Unfortunately it will not only Wonderboy's name in the news.

the absurdity of the US legal system has me puzzled sometimes

That doesn't sound good.

 

[BotanyBay]

There are 4 other people charged by usada. One can reasonably presume that some of the evidence against my ole buddy pal will be the same evidence used against The Hog, Dr. SnaggleTooth and Pepe. So don't expect evidence to be revealed as soon as lance throws in the towel and lets Travis and usada win.

I think Lance will spread feces all over the walls and urinate all over himself before he'll concede to sitting in that room and hearing these people say these things about him. Likewise, I think he'll submit an appeal tomorrow.

I have a feeling that his lawyers have both of his current options pretty much all prepared for him. I think do not think he'll actually make his decision until an hour before the USADA deadline.

Why? Because all of us might feel a sense of satisfaction from an earlier decision. He can't let us have that.

 

[Page Mill Masochist]

Unfortunately it will not only Wonderboy's name in the news.

the absurdity of the US legal system has me puzzled sometimes

Fresh attacks on USADA funding? On Tygart?

 

[Turner29]

I know a few former Carmichael training instructors that have left and their clients left with them. That will hurt him where it counts. Since his legacy is closely tied with Lance they'll likely end up in the same handbasket on it's way to the nether region.

I hope so. Carmichael is as vile as Armstrong, perhaps in some ways more so.

The ultimate wheel-sucker.

 

[Turner29]

Unfortunately it will not only Wonderboy's name in the news.

the absurdity of the US legal system has me puzzled sometimes

What do you consider absurd?

 

[QuickStepper]

I would be very interested in seeing a few posts in which you put yourself in the shoes of the USADA team instead, given that currently the overwhelming majority of your submissions play the role of devil's advocate in support of the LA team. Your balanced input playing both sides would be appreciated, since according to your posts you have significant practical experience in similar matters.

Well, I'd like to spend some time thinking about USADA's approach, but honestly, I think their case is really going to be fairly straightforward from everything I've read and heard. They will attempt to present testimony and affidavits from witnesses, some documentary evidence (at least there's some indication they will with respect to the claims that some of Armstrong's 2004 or 2005 testing was "suggestive" of manipulated blood values), and the like.

The most interesting issues I think from USADA's perspective, assuming the case actually proceeds to arbitration, are going to be how they respond to the jurisdiction and SOL arguments that I and some others anticipate Armstrong will assert. I think they will play it straight, and rely on the same principles that have been discussed throughout this thread, i.e., the Hellebuyck exception and the claim of a conspiracy.

Frankly, I think it's much harder to see where the trouble might lie, other than the "big-ticket" issues, in the USADA's case, and in that respect, it's probably a lot less challenging and less fun to talk about. Armstrong's case, on the other hand, is just so filled with legal issues and challenges that I find it way more interesting to think about. So don't mistake my interest in trying to analyze and deal with issues that I think are more interesting than some others with a bias or slant to one side or the other. As I've said many times, I have no "skin" in this game, and it doesn't matter to me whether Armstrong skates or is fried. Also, don't confuse the fact that I don't share the view that Armstrong's counsel are the idiots or bumbling fools that others here seem to think they are with some sort of alignment, fondness or bias towards them. The USADA has good, competent attorneys also; so far they haven't committed the same procedural gaffes that have occurred on the Armstrong side, but give it time, they will.

In saying that I have no real interest in which side wins or loses though, I will confess that I did read the recent article by Bill Strickland in Bicycling that someone else linked to, and it made me think back to those days when I'd watch the Tour on Versus, the Tour de Trump, and some of the other races where Armstrong and his teammates would just do some amazing stuff. I don't think I was as concious back in those days of the impact or effect that doping was having on the sport, and certainly none of my cycling buddies nor I even gave that stuff any thought. I was not, and am not, a racing cyclist; I do long-distance, endurance events and ride recreationally, about 200 miles per week during the summer months, and doping has never been high on my radar, and maybe that's why I'm more reluctant to want to write screeds about how venal and vile it is for Armstrong and his pals to have doped (assuming they did, and I only know what I've read and heard from others).

I try to present a balanced view, but I fully appreciate why others here in the Clinic may not see it that way and tend to think I may have some tilt toward the Armstrong camp. I don't, and if I've made it appear that way, it was not my intention. But that said, I think I've tried to discuss and present some other points of view that some people here in the Clinic may not be looking at or overlooking. That's all.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

I think Lance will spread feces all over the walls and urinate all over himself before he'll concede to sitting in that room and hearing these people say these things about him. Likewise, I think he'll submit an appeal tomorrow.


Thanks for the visual. I think it may happen at the hearing....

 

[mewmewmew13]

Haha...
Just getting the same visuals.....

thnx BB

"I think Lance will spread feces all over the walls and urinate all over himself before he'll concede to sitting in that room and hearing these people say these things about him. "

 

[Berzin]

Unfortunately it will not only Wonderboy's name in the news.

The absurdity of the US legal system has me puzzled sometimes.

That deosn't sound like good news to us.

Could you elaborate just a little bit, or will we have to settle for waiting until tomorrow?

 

[DomesticDomestique]

This news from RR containing the word "unfortunately" has ruined my day. Any guesses as to what he means?

 

[Jeremiah]

I try to present a balanced view, but I fully appreciate why others here in the Clinic may not see it that way and tend to think I may have some tilt toward the Armstrong camp. I don't, and if I've made it appear that way, it was not my intention. But that said, I think I've tried to discuss and present some other points of view that some people here in the Clinic may not be looking at or overlooking. That's all.

I appreciate your view and also appreciate Chewbacca's passion and indignation over the ongoing silliness emanating from the Armstrong camp.

You seem to be very well established professionally which may be why you have more of a detached outlook on the situation.

Chewbacca, from what he's shared here, is going through a mid life career change, and is not yet professionally established which may contribute to his seeming, ah, "defensiveness" at times. IMHO of course.

I do understand Chewbacca's disgust with Armstrong's possibly two decades of lying he's subjected cycling fans to and the blind following of the "fanboys."

 

[Jeremiah]

That deosn't sound like good news to us.

Could you elaborate just a little bit, or will we have to settle for waiting until tomorrow?

Possibly subject matter which is outside the bounds of what is permitted to be discussed here, is controversial, (not religion or money) and is discussed in the cafe.

 

[86TDFWinner]

It all starts with something as innocent as michelob ultra....
all downhill from there....

seriously, he will find outlets for his anger somehow...remember, he said that if he was "going down he would take cycling down with him" did he not?

He also said he wouldn't fight ANY charges the USADA brought against him, he's such a big scam artist, he can't even lie correctly.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Unfortunately, Chris Carmichael, America's honorary "Doctor Evil" and one of the early proponents of doping, will get off scott free.

Sad too, bc I was a huge fan of the 7 Eleven team, now that calls EVERYTHING they ever did into question.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

Unfortunately it will not only Wonderboy's name in the news.

the absurdity of the US legal system has me puzzled sometimes

Cough it up please.

 

[86TDFWinner]

I hope so. Carmichael is as vile a human being as Armstrong, perhaps in some ways more so.

The ultimate wheel-sucker.

This. (FTFY btw-hope you don't mind, sounds better this way)